4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[Geoff D]

Yep, dual outputs will make it a non-issue in terms of splitting off the video and audio at least (and may even be essential for 10.2 Gb/s hardware if the 4K video output is hogging most of that bandwidth by itself and doesn't leave enough room for the lossless audio to go down one pipe), but people who love to, ah, "improve" their PQ with Darbees and whatnot will have to upgrade them.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

No they said in an interview with hcc that they will make it work in 4K with every 4k display

Right, and this is how it would have to be. There is no way they are going to just rely on new UHD displays to sell the format; they are going to also have to rely on current UHD displays.

Now, I assume the player will convert P3 and 10 bit to rec 709 and 8 bit for displays that don't support P3 and 10 bit?

[Geoff D]

That's the plan, yeah. I hope they don't hobble the 709 output at 8-bit though, my TV has a 10-bit panel and if I can't get WCG and HDR (even though the set has a wider gamut than 709 and almost 500 nits peak output) then I at least want to be able to enjoy the benefits of having a billion grades of colour rather than 16 million.

The best I could hope for with my 2014 set is some sort of proprietary 'Triluminous' colour gamut on Sony's own UHD BD players which maps the content to what their TVs can do, but the TVs themselves would still need a complicated firmware update in order to make it happen.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yep, dual outputs will make it a non-issue in terms of splitting off the video and audio at least (and may even be essential for 10.2 Gb/s hardware if the 4K video output is hogging most of that bandwidth by itself and doesn't leave enough room for the lossless audio to go down one pipe), but people who love to, ah, "improve" their PQ with Darbees and whatnot will have to upgrade them.

I have a bridge to sell them.
I am buying my 4k display very soon, and am thinking more and more that I can live without hdr.
Getting an emperors new clothes feel about it all.

[HeavyHitter]

There is a slight chance I will upgrade to a UHD projector when the new models come out end of this year, but I have a feeling the prices are still going to be too high and I am a little hesitant buying a first gen model. I will be keeping an eye on the JVCs as their native contrast ratios are just so high above anyone else in the FP realm although I am still open to Sony Lcos and Epson lcoq.

[Nightopian]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Thankfully most 4K displays thus far have either been sold with or upgraded to HDCP 2.2

Actually, you'll find that a lot of the gear has HDCP 2.2 support doesn't have HDMI 2.0 support. And gear with HDMI 2.0 support doesn't have HDCP 2.2 support.

Unless it specifies BOTH HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2, buyer beware. Your new HDCP 2.2 TV could only support 10.2gbps, 8-bit colour, 30fps and 8 channel sound.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Nightopian

Actually, you'll find that a lot of the gear has HDCP 2.2 support doesn't have HDMI 2.0 support. And gear with HDMI 2.0 support doesn't have HDCP 2.2 support.

Unless it specifies BOTH HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2, buyer beware. Your new HDCP 2.2 TV could only support 10.2gbps, 8-bit colour, 30fps and 8 channel sound.

I've yet to hear of a 4K device with HDCP 2.2 that doesn't have some level of HDMI 2.0 support, which is the assumption that both I (and indeed the BDA it seems) are working under. If you're talking about full-fat HDMI 2.0 + HDCP 2.2 and are choosing to dismiss the jury-rigged 10.2 Gb/s silicon, then I don't know of anything which has such a chipset right now. And FYI a piece of equipment doesn't have to have the full 2.0 specification to be officially classed as HDMI 2.0 compatible, because even 10.2 Gb/s hardware has enough bandwidth to carry wider gamuts, higher bit depths and so on at up to 30fps ([edit] and even if there are 4K HDMI 1.4 sets with no 2.0 firmware tweakery but with HDCP 2.2, then they'll STILL be compatible with 24fps UHD BD at the basest level, which you alluded to earlier in this very thread).

As for displays having HDMI 2.0 of whatever flavour but no HDCP 2.2, I'm sure there are a few stragglers from the cheaper marques, but all the big players have not released their displays into the wild without either 2.2 built-in or an upgrade path that's been made available.

Ergo, the BDA are correct as far as their members are concerned: UHD BD will work at 4K with 4K TVs, period. Whether you get all the tasty goodness is another story, but seeing as Sony's 2015 sets appear to STILL be using the 10.2 Gb/s HDMI chips I think we're still a ways off from getting the full spread.

[Nightopian]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

If you're talking about full-fat HDMI 2.0 + HDCP 2.2 and are choosing to dismiss the jury-rigged 10.2 Gb/s silicon, then I don't know of anything which has such a chipset right now.

Yes, that is what I was referring to. Right now equipment has one or the other...both standards aren't incorporated together as far as I can tell. I'm sure they are working on it now though and most likely by the time UHD-BD become available the big players will have equipment which fully supports it.

It just means people should really just hold off buying that new receiver or TV until models are released which FULLY supports the standards. And unless they make the switch to OLED, there's not a hope in hell that LCD TV's can fully support the rec. 2020 colour gamut either...so it's all kinda pointless at the moment...

[Pieter V]

This is what the 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray format will look like

The Blu-Ray Disc Association (BDA) used CES as its opportunity to expand on its previous announcement that 4K Blu-ray discs will be on shelves by Christmas 2015.
The organization has revealed the format's official name will be Ultra HD Blu-ray, says The Hollywood Reporter, while tech site Hexus has the specifics.
The BDA's board has defined Ultra HD Blu-ray as discs that can handle resolution up to 3849 x 2169 and frame rates up to 60fps.
The new format will also feature a wider color range (to up REC 2020 or BT2020) and 10-bit color depth, Hexus says, and a mandatory, open HDR specification will be crucial to the format overall. Though not all 4K movies have HDR at this time, that may be a future-proofing measure.
The new Ultra HD Blu-ray discs will range from 66GB in dual-layer to 100GB in triple-layer, while Ultra HD Blu-ray players will include the HEVC (H.265) codec, support HDMI 1.2 and 2.0 and be backward-compatible with existing Blu-rays, DVDs and VCDs.
Rising from the dead

Panasonic already announced a 4K Blu-ray player at CES, and it seems it may have been the first, though it won't be the last.
Early in 2014 Sony's own reports suggested 4K Blu-ray discs were dead before they even arrived, and now here we are, less than a year later, reading announcements about the format's specs. It just goes to show that things are sometimes not as dire as they seem.

http://www.techradar.com/news/video/...k-like-1279902

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Nightopian

...And unless they make the switch to OLED, there's not a hope in hell that LCD TV's can fully support the rec. 2020 colour gamut either...so it's all kinda pointless at the moment...

Not that you will ever see BT.2020 colorimetry’s full potential soon, key words being deployment and *aspirational*, as described last Sept.….

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

My friend , I don’t want to get your hopes up too high for guaranteed deployment of full BT. 2020 color gamut by Christmas 2015 because ‘2020’ is an *aspirational* spec that is being considered and still *pursued*. The task force is trying to offer as future-proof a spec as possible, given economical constraints and realities.

The main technical fly in the BT.2020 ointment has been display capability in the mastering suite, as explained last August (before the ‘official’ 4K BD reassurance revelation at IFA) on our HEVC thread…. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ng#post9560685
but, work does progress to that end, e.g. skip to the 3 min. mark regarding the *special feature* of the Sony 4K OLED professional monitor…

NAB 2014: Sony PVM-A250 & New 4K OLED Monitor - YouTube

Plus, admittedly, there is a challenge involving a possible need for standardized spectral power distributions for display primaries due to more variation in spectral power density because of the range of technologies used…research concerning of which was just presented to a SMPTE working group (closed to the general public or A/V reporters), a few weeks ago.

…..But I would contest your assertion that ‘there is no hope in hell’, for as stated before…. “as to Quantum Dot tech, it provides the most promise for wide color gamut capable LCDs” - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...e#post10171874

Not to mention, more advanced pursuits (full article is available to general public) - http://www.opticsinfobase.org/oe/abs...oe-22-16-19069

[Nightopian]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Not that you will ever see BT.2020 colorimetry’s full potential soon, key words being deployment and *aspirational*, as described last Sept.….


Plus, admittedly, there is a challenge involving a possible need for standardized spectral power distributions for display primaries due to more variation in spectral power density because of the range of technologies used…research concerning of which was just presented to a SMPTE working group (closed to the general public or A/V reporters), a few weeks ago.

…..But I would contest your assertion that ‘there is no hope in hell’, for as stated before…. “as to Quantum Dot tech, it provides the most promise for wide color gamut capable LCDs” - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...e#post10171874

Not to mention, more advanced pursuits (full article is available to general public) - http://www.opticsinfobase.org/oe/abs...oe-22-16-19069

Yes, I know about Quantum Dot LED (QD-LED) but companies such as LG, while they are putting some research into it, they are pushing more towards OLED as a real replacement to the aging LCD. QD-LED is another bandaid technology to try to fix the limitations associated with LCD LED colour spectrum. It remains to be seen whether or not and in what capacity they will fit in the marketplace. But right now, LG and Samsung are pushing for the change to OLED and I'm sure Sony, Panasonic etc will follow. Remember, for these companies it's about making money and to do that they need to show consumers new leaps in technology and try to 'wow' them to bring in the sales...

http://www.cnet.com/products/lg-65eg9600/

[x RadicalAura x]

What do y'all foresee combo packs looking like once UHD 4K Blu-rays are a thing? Now we're gonna have VOD, 2D 1080P Blu-ray, 3D 1080P Blu-ray, 2D 4K Blu-ray, 3D 4K Blu-ray, DVD.

Do you think they'll keep the 1080P vs. 4K Blu-rays in separate combo pack offerings or combine them like they did with 1080P Blu-ray/DVD?

[kristoffer]

I can't help but wonder if we will still have physical discs in 20 years. Will all my Blu Rays become obsolete or will players still be produced at that time?

[Dylan34]

Originally Posted by x RadicalAura x

What do y'all foresee combo packs looking like once UHD 4K Blu-rays are a thing? Now we're gonna have VOD, 2D 1080P Blu-ray, 3D 1080P Blu-ray, 2D 4K Blu-ray, 3D 4K Blu-ray, DVD.

Do you think they'll keep the 1080P vs. 4K Blu-rays in separate combo pack offerings or combine them like they did with 1080P Blu-ray/DVD?

At first, I'm sure we'll just get the 4K blu by itself just like it was when blu-ray was first released. Combo packs will probably come later as the format matures.

[BozQ]

Sigh. Doesn't look like HFR is going to make it.

[RedIsNotBlue]

Originally Posted by kristoffer

I can't help but wonder if we will still have physical discs in 20 years. Will all my Blu Rays become obsolete or will players still be produced at that time?

Technology and how we view movies is always going to change and evolve. I think eventually all movies will be streaming but that is all a matter of internet speeds becoming so high speed, reasonably priced and readily available that we can watch something in the highest quality at the touch of a button without issues *Coughs* ...google fiber... *Coughs and stares at Google Fiber with dreamy eyes*

[Kirsty_Mc]

Originally Posted by x RadicalAura x

What do y'all foresee combo packs looking like once UHD 4K Blu-rays are a thing? Now we're gonna have VOD, 2D 1080P Blu-ray, 3D 1080P Blu-ray, 2D 4K Blu-ray, 3D 4K Blu-ray, DVD.

Do you think they'll keep the 1080P vs. 4K Blu-rays in separate combo pack offerings or combine them like they did with 1080P Blu-ray/DVD?

I imagine any solo UHD Blu-Ray will have differential packaging sufficient to make a mistaken purchase less likely (retailers don't want too many returns from 1080P only equipped customers).

Combo packs I suggest will be in regular Blu-Ray cases as the will also contain a regular 1080P disc. That way a Trojan horse 4K disc is purchased. Eventually as the number of Trojan horses increase on the customers shelf at home, the desire to upgrade their equipment will begin to smoulder, then burn and when the desire bursts into a raging inferno...an upgrade will be made.

All will then be well in the world... A big ticket purchase will have been made, thereby helping the economy. Wow... Upgrading to 4K is patriotic

[RedIsNotBlue]

Theoretically could they put a 1080p version of a film on the same disc as the 4K version?

[Pieter V]

Originally Posted by RedIsNotBlue

Theoretically could they put a 1080p version of a film on the same disc as the 4K version?

Yes, why not? It still remains data on a bigger Blu-ray disc. Then they can benefit the HVEC.265 codec plus the extra space on the 66GB - 100 GB discs. So no more splitting 3D movies. Or add for example more TV episodes on a disc.

But marketing wise, that is not gonna happen. it will be for 4K only and HVEC.265 codec.

1080p = 25-50GB discs and H.264 codec.

[Selaboc]

Originally Posted by kristoffer

I can't help but wonder if we will still have physical discs in 20 years. Will all my Blu Rays become obsolete or will players still be produced at that time?

Even if they stopped selling physical discs right now, physical disc players will still be available for sale for a good number of years to come because people will still want to play the discs they already have. After all, a decade on from the demise of VHS, and you can still by brand new machines that will play VHS tapes.