The Terminator (1984) (in red case) May 5, 2015

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by rdodolak

Teal is a shade of blue.

True, but it sho' does get people hot under the collar!

[StingingVelvet]

I had my Thief criterion in last night and switched from "warm" to "standard" color mode on my TV and it was amazing how teal became blue instantly.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I had my Thief criterion in last night and switched from "warm" to "standard" color mode on my TV and it was amazing how teal became blue instantly.

But the problem - for some - then becomes that the film has a blanket blue cast rather than a teal one, instead of having a grade that's more naturalistic and indicative of the original photography.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I had my Thief criterion in last night and switched from "warm" to "standard" color mode on my TV and it was amazing how teal became blue instantly.

That definitely plays a factor. I watched The Terminator (remastered) on my JVC FP which has been pro cal'd and thought the disc looked great. Really nice detail. I'm sure it's not 100% identical to the original color, but I wasn't bothered by the teal (and it's not in all scenes) and at least Cameron oversaw it versus some technician. Hopefully T2 remastered will come along at some point as that is long overdue!

[hanshotfirst1138]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

True, but it sho' does get people hot under the collar!

Either way, it's still annoying revisionism! I still have to hang onto my DVD of Aliens because of the damn teal wash on the BD. That will not be improved on the new BD of T1, I'm fairly sure. Anyhow, on another note, will it have the mono? Or does Cameron think that's no longer representative of how the film was always intended to be either?!

[hanshotfirst1138]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Torsten Kaiser seems to think the new disc is "pretty darn good" although not perfect as there are some global teal changes that shouldn't be there, but he goes on to say the disc is far better than previous versions.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...198940&page=43

To be specific on THE TERMINATOR the cyan / bluish tones WERE very much part of the color palette, which was - on the original prints - in the DeLuxe process. But as opposed to the BD - on 35mm these were mostly COLOR / SHADE SPECIFIC and not as global as seen in many shots. However: note that the color re-timing, ideally, is done shot by shot and a simple setting of that LUT is not just applied to all shots with a single touch of a button.

In some shots of the new BD, the emphasis (saturation) on cyanish tones is a bit too much (but specifically night scenes were lit in cyan[!] so it has to be there), while in most, though not perfect for the reasons I stated the timing made are still pretty darn good, and on yet on few others again photochemical effects such as in the discotheque are (yet again) are, unfortunately, not fully realized to the original portential (see below).

Bottom line: DIs can be made cheaper, different, more precise in many ways, yes. Specific photochemical attributes, however, can still not be achieved digitally on many levels. That beauty is tied only to film. Note also that color processing on both analogue and digital fronts is also a matter of choice by the colorist and/or the people who ordered/supervised it. Before finalizing production - and after. The latter being the more complicated. A lot of people here would not believe how many films they have seen and grown to love in this specific "color palette" that are - in truth and reality - ABSOLUTELY WRONG in color representation/registration. Welcome to my world.

That's not hat I've heard. We don't need film stock anymore because digital can accurately reproduce it and anything involving celluloid is just neceophillia, I heard. Go down swinging, Kodak.

[trainreck]

Add me to the list that may pick this up. I still have this on DVD so I would like to upgrade and the colored case makes it kind of cool. I always prefer buying bd's with digital codes too so I can sell them and make back a couple bucks.

[takeasneededforpain]

Originally Posted by Monterey Jack

Original mono or GTFO.

Amen.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

But the problem - for some - then becomes that the film has a blanket blue cast rather than a teal one, instead of having a grade that's more naturalistic and indicative of the original photography.

Yeah, I mean I am not telling people to switch to a cooler color mode really. I do it on a lark sometimes but it definitely looks too blue and blown-out to me since I am used to a properly calibrated set. It's just funny to me that these teal remasters tend to look true blue if you switch color modes, which in some cases (Aliens, Blade Runner, etc.) makes them look more like the original timing.

I still wonder if this is intentional, like they remaster knowing most people use the out-of-the-box color, even though you and others smarter than me on these subjects told me that's impossible.

[Geoff D]

I don't think I said impossible, just highly unlikely. Penton Man said that small tweaks are done to take certain types of home viewing tech into account, like a slight lifting of the blacks, but on the level you're describing with colour specifically, I'd say no.

It's axiomatic that LCD will have worse blacks than plasma or OLED because that's a technological limitation, you can't change it on an LCD no matter what settings you use. But there are no such colour accuracy issues inherent to LCD tech, only what the user preference will be, so where's the reference point? A straw poll of manufacturers re: their default modes (which themselves aren't the same from Sony to LG to Samsung etc) might have very different results to what a straw poll of end-users would reveal (even the average joe has changed the settings at some point), so it's far easier and simpler to stick with the established white point, chromaticities etc and let people get on with it from there.

And, as I said before, I've seen the DCP of Blade Runner FC in two different but equally well set-up theaters and it was very much like the Blu-ray, perhaps not quite so aggressive with the colour (see paragraph below). But unless this theatrical master was meant to look good in Torch mode on matey's 32" supermarket special LCD I'll go with it being intended to look like that, regardless of what it's being viewed on. (Which is the point of the XYZ gamut that DCPs are encoded in, it's display agnostic.)

Still, the move to a wider gamut for UHD BD @ 10-bit and possibly P3 colour space can only be a good thing in the long run, because it will introduce more subtlety to colour on home video. Now that won't mean it'll reduce colour saturation, but it'll mean that there are more shades of colour, so what might start out as the dreaded teal at any given point will taper off into more subtle shades than what a Rec.709 version could give you, thereby lessening the perceived aggressiveness of the teal timing.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Yeah, I mean I am not telling people to switch to a cooler color mode really. I do it on a lark sometimes but it definitely looks too blue and blown-out to me since I am used to a properly calibrated set. It's just funny to me that these teal remasters tend to look true blue if you switch color modes, which in some cases (Aliens, Blade Runner, etc.) makes them look more like the original timing.

I still wonder if this is intentional, like they remaster knowing most people use the out-of-the-box color, even though you and others smarter than me on these subjects told me that's impossible.

I think with DVD this definitely the case. Much better standardization in mastering with HD/rec. 709.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Still, the move to a wider gamut for UHD BD @ 10-bit and possibly P3 colour space can only be a good thing in the long run, because it will introduce more subtlety to colour on home video. Now that won't mean it'll reduce colour saturation, but it'll mean that there are more shades of colour, so what might start out as the dreaded teal at any given point will taper off into more subtle shades than what a Rec.709 version could give you, thereby lessening the perceived aggressiveness of the teal timing.

Good point as better subtly is one thing that stood out immediately to me going from rec 601 to 709. Should be at least that much more so with P3.

[blu_jake]

7.50 section at Target with sticker mentioning digital copy us 2 new james cameron featurettes? Can anyone confirm what these new features entail?