Oh noes teh sky is falling!

[mredman]

Originally Posted by Bates_Motel

A physical disc is no more safe than a digital download. Not to mention, it's easier and faster to make a backup of a download.

There have been numerous cases of disc rot and bronzing - Lionsgate titles, Criterion titles, etc. I've never lost a download, though, but had to replace quite a few discs.

We all know you champion digital guess all of us guys here that own over 1600 Blu's here are just lucky right

[FruityOatyBar]

Originally Posted by mredman

Disc rot? Are you kidding have been buying discs since 1999 and have only had 1 movie gone bad. REST have all been fine so far. So you really are SERIOUSLY exaggerating here big time. Digital is like "smoke" Blu-Ray is not.

Personally, I trust digital for the most part. I have purchased a number of movies and TV shows from iTunes over the years. Some that are no longer available on the store, but I can still stream them. Yes, I have downloaded many of them as a backup but streaming still works.

[Moviefan2k4]

I prefer physical media for one main reason: its tougher for others to steal it. Smart hackers can find ways into a lot of computer systems, but physical copies require thieves to enter your house. Also, I don't trust the studios to not suddenly decide on a whim, that my account's no longer valid.

[Bugg]

Generally if a disc is going to rot it will happen within the first few years. My experience has always been that if the disc is still good 5 years after it was pressed, it will last forever. I had a few dozen laserdisc get disc rot on me and they were all fairly new when it happened (a lot of Disney and early 90's Image pressings). Last year I went though all of my LDs that had been sitting in a closet the last 15 years and every one of them was still good. Even with dvd the small handfull of discs that rotted on me were still fairly new when they soured (like the first pressings of The Matrix and LA Confidential).

I don't trust digital collections. I would always be leary of certain titles suddenly being altered or removed for copy-write reasons. Maybe the title gets replaced with a remastered file that has a excessive EE and DNR, or some of the songs are different because a licence expired before they "upgraded" the file to the new 4K Tealtastic edition. I also don't want to sit down to watch a movie one day, then get a message that I need to update my software for some new DRM crap (with 5 pages of Terms of Service agreements to sign off on) they want to install on my system in order to watch a ****ing movie I already paid for.

[Blu Titan]

Originally Posted by FruityOatyBar

I was watching my day 1 purchased Star Trek: The Next Generation, season 5 Blu-ray the other day and noticed a glitch and some snow in the image on one episode that wasn't there before. I'm assuming this is disc rot and the set was released November 19, 2013, not even three years ago.

Now this isn't the norm, but it goes to show that Blu-ray doesn't have an infinite shelf life.

That is strange but how is it dics rot? Maybe a picture of the disc itself would help. I own around 3500 disc movies Blu/DVD and have never had a case of disc rot. In all my years of ownership...I had one movie that stopped playing, which was replaced by WB with a new disc.

[rdodolak]

The defective discs that I have come across so far are all DVDs and breakdown as follows: Universal (2), Anchor Bay (1), and DreamWorks (1). The two Universal DVDs were purchased around 1997/1998 and I discovered the issue around 2006. The Anchor Bay release (SpaceCamp) was defective upon purchase and the DreamWorks release (The Mexican) was discovered around 2012/2013 but luckily I discovered I inadvertently purchased two copies at one point and the other copy was fine.

[cakefactory]

I've had a handful of blu-rays stop working (all early lionsgate, I believe), and only one dvd stop working, though I have barely watched any of those in years. I dunno what the story is. The thing is, though, I have hundreds of them I haven't watched in years, and it makes me kind of paranoid that when I eventually get them out again that they're not going to work. Especially the out of print ones. I'm really tempted to get a replacement from Criterion on Last Year at Marienbad just proactively (mine's from the "bad batch"). I have a couple others of theirs that are on that bad list from the bad batches, too. None of them visually seem to be off, but it just doesn't make me feel good. Especially considering that given stats on paper, Blu-Rays are supposed to last much longer.

I've only gotten one disc that was DOA, which I think was also Lionsgate. It was so cheap and the movie was so bad that I just didn't bother with a return.

Weirdly, most of my DVD-Rs from 15 years ago all still work fine, though there too I started making new copies of most of them. I guess making sure to buy the Verbatim Singapore discs back then paid off.

"Disc rot" might not be the term. Some of the ones that stopped working don't look weird to me, I dunno if there's some other kind of dilapidation that can occur. They just no longer can be read by either of my two players or my computer. And no, no damage, they've been sitting in the case for many years :/

But yeah, everyone that loves to rant and rave about how digital is smoke that can disappear - how many digital movies have you ever had disappear? Is this just some hypothetical boogeyman, or has stuff ever really been yanked off vudu/itunes and taken out of everyone's lockers? I've had a total of 0, while more blu-rays than that have died. I don't know if that ratio is going to change over the years.

[Captain Flint]

Originally Posted by Cranston37

I have absolutely no problem with people not liking digital media for a variety of legitimate reasons, and at the end of the day it's to each his own on this topic anyway, but I've never understood the "I don't want to be dependent on having an internet connection" argument.

To me that's like saying you buy bottled water to take baths with because you don't want to be dependent on your home's running water. Internet has become as ubiquitous a utility as electricity and water. The only time I've ever lost internet has been when the power's gone out, in which case I wouldn't have been able to watch or listen to anything anyway.

I know full well I've just thrown a gernade so I'm running for cover

Try living in my area. Internet cuts out anytime it feels like. The internet is not a guaranteed thing everywhere you go. Owning physical copies of movies is still the absolute safest bet.

[TripleHBK]

Originally Posted by cakefactory

But yeah, everyone that loves to rant and rave about how digital is smoke that can disappear - how many digital movies have you ever had disappear? Is this just some hypothetical boogeyman, or has stuff ever really been yanked off vudu/itunes and taken out of everyone's lockers? I've had a total of 0, while more blu-rays than that have died. I don't know if that ratio is going to change over the years.

While losing access to content you paid for is certainly concerning and has happened across multiple digital services over the last decade, what I find at least as concerning is the simple removal/censorship of films being available in general. Currently we have to worry that a film may go out of print before we purchase it... however when it goes out of print it can still be purchased second hand from someone else (though at a premium). With digital, if a film is out of service (?) then there is no second hand market. Suddenly there is simply no legal way to obtain a film any longer... possible forever. This actually happened within the last 2 years. In an attempt to distance themselves from the previous Fantastic Four movies prior to the release of Fant4stic, Fox actually pulled all available digital versions of the earlier films in an attempt to remove the films from the movie public's conscious so that all searches would only point to the new film. Had the new film not been a total utter failure, who knows how long the films would have remained unavailable. this was just one example of a studio exerting control over access to films that they had no business doing. Their reasoning was despicable, their tactics deplorable, and things will only get worse in an all digital Eco-sphere.

Netflix's ever dwindling catalog of content is proof positive that studios are already toying with the availability of their films. The Fantastic Four example takes things one step further. Patents were filed a few years ago for a camera system (though your tv, phone, video game camera, or webcam) that could identify the number of users viewing content at one time. The applications for this were largely so that content providers could restrict the number of people that could view a screen at any one time. As people become more and more willing to give up their ownership rights, accept online DRM and check in procedures, and become unable to separate themselves from the internet for their entertainment all for the sake of the illusion of "convenience" these sorts of tactics will become more and more common.

I'm not anti-digital, but I am pro consumer choice and a very large advocate of personal ownership through physical means. Assuming that things in the digital world won't become more locked down, and more examples like the above won't continue to happen is foolish and set's a dangerous precedent for the future of all entertainment.

[cakefactory]

Originally Posted by TripleHBK

While losing access to content you paid for is certainly concerning and has happened across multiple digital services over the last decade, what I find at least as concerning is the simple removal/censorship of films being available in general. Currently we have to worry that a film may go out of print before we purchase it... however when it goes out of print it can still be purchased second hand from someone else (though at a premium). With digital, if a film is out of service (?) then there is no second hand market. Suddenly there is simply no legal way to obtain a film any longer... possible forever. This actually happened within the last 2 years. In an attempt to distance themselves from the previous Fantastic Four movies prior to the release of Fant4stic, Fox actually pulled all available digital versions of the earlier films in an attempt to remove the films from the movie public's conscious so that all searches would only point to the new film. Had the new film not been a total utter failure, who knows how long the films would have remained unavailable. this was just one example of a studio exerting control over access to films that they had no business doing. Their reasoning was despicable, their tactics deplorable, and things will only get worse in an all digital Eco-sphere.

I don't consider Netflix in what I'm asking, I would NEVER expect their stuff to be consistent (they've proven beyond all shadow of a doubt it isn't, they're practically just on-demand cable with a fancy name). I'm specifically asking about buying a digital copy of a film through some service like ultraviolet/Itunes and having THAT get removed. Has THAT ever happened? I'm unclear from your F4 example whether that happened there, or if it just was made so you couldn't buy it during that time if you hadn't already.

Digital copies being made unavailable to buy doesn't concern me that much, I'm asking if once you buy it if it's permanent. I know even if nothing has ever been yanked that the answer is still "we don't know," but if it's "so far, yes" then that's good enough for me. If anything's ever actually been yanked, then I will take that as a warning. Just so far, all I'm hearing are a lot of hypotheticals from zealots on this board.

Obviously I am a gigantic proponent of physical, I have close to 2000 discs at this point and own MAYBE 150-200 digital copies of movies on vudu/itunes. I just am starting to rethink that policy both for space reasons and "permanence." If the digital copies are tied to you for as long as the services last (and I do think that UV and Itunes at least will probably be around for the forseeable future), I may start going that route instead of discs if the prices are in line and it's for movies I don't care that much about having the best possible audio/video. If anyone actually has evidence of things disappearing after being bought individually, I'd like to hear it.

Even something like say, "I bought the digital version of Star Wars, and a few years later, it got replaced by the special edition and there was no way to see what I bought in the first place again!!!" would be a very legit beef. I know that didn't happen with Star Wars since they weren't on digital until the blu-ray versions had already come out, but you know what I mean! Maybe.

I don't disagree with any of your concerns, they're just all besides the point with what I was talking about. I sure avoided the xbox one when the camera was mandatory, and was freaking out about that "scan room to determine whether to bill extra for movie rental!!!" thing to everyone when I heard about it, too! And that was before I was on this forum!

[HD Goofnut]

I cancelled my Netflix subscription (since 2008) earlier today after being fed up with the slow turnaround times for the last 2 years. If I send a disc back on a Friday I don't get a replacement until the following Wednesday. Five damn days! So, I was sick of it as it used to be a one day turnaround. If I mailed a disc back on a Friday I'd get a replacement on Monday. Netflix slowly kept pushing it back until enough is enough. They tried to tell me it was because my nearest distribution facility was in Little Rock. I told them that that is only 4 hours from me. My turnaround time should still be one day. Complete BS.

[cakefactory]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

I cancelled my Netflix subscription (since 2008) earlier today after being fed up with the slow turnaround times for the last 2 years. If I send a disc back on a Friday I don't get a replacement until the following Wednesday. Five damn days! So, I was sick of it as it used to be a one day turnaround. If I mailed a disc back on a Friday I'd get a replacement on Monday. Netflix slowly kept pushing it back until enough is enough. They tried to tell me it was because my nearest distribution facility was in Little Rock. I told them that that is only 4 hours from me. My turnaround time should still be one day. Complete BS.

We were talking about the digital-only version.

I had the disc service in college for a couple months in 2003 or 2004. That was when they introduced throttling. For the first few weeks or so that I had it, I was on the "three discs at a time" plan and was getting at least one new disc every day. They quickly caught on and I started getting about 2 a week, even if I'd mail all three back on Monday After about a month of that I cancelled and haven't gone back since. I guess I haven't really heard of anyone else I know IRL using the disc version since they introduced the streaming, either. Most people just aren't picky enough to want to actually choose what they want to watch with the massive amount of choices from the disc service, they seem to like incredibly limited choices for some reason. Guess maybe it's just the ability to not have to mail back disc one of a season and wait a week to get the next 4 episodes, etc.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by cakefactory

We were talking about the digital-only version.

I had the disc service in college for a couple months in 2003 or 2004. That was when they introduced throttling. For the first few weeks or so that I had it, I was on the "three discs at a time" plan and was getting at least one new disc every day. They quickly caught on and I started getting about 2 a week, even if I'd mail all three back on Monday After about a month of that I cancelled and haven't gone back since. I guess I haven't really heard of anyone else I know IRL using the disc version since they introduced the streaming, either. Most people just aren't picky enough to want to actually choose what they want to watch with the massive amount of choices from the disc service, they seem to like incredibly limited choices for some reason. Guess maybe it's just the ability to not have to mail back disc one of a season and wait a week to get the next 4 episodes, etc.

I refuse to pay for streaming or downloads. I had Netflix's streaming for several months when it was free with the disc plan and the selection was horrible. The quality was poor as well.

[nmycon]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

I refuse to pay for streaming or downloads. I had Netflix's streaming for several months when it was free with the disc plan and the selection was horrible. The quality was poor as well.

I love physical media as much as the next guy, but I really can't complain for $10 a month

There's plenty of movies/shows I wouldn't risk blind buying on blu-ray or DVD, so I check them out on Netflix.

I'm fully aware that any show I'm in the middle of may be taken down at any moment. If that's the case (and if I'm enjoying the show) I'll go out and buy it.

Hell, DVD rentals used to be about $5 for a weekend. I view it the same way, $10 to access their catalog for a month. I've been stuck away from home this summer, packed a handful of movies to bring with me, but I ended up activating Netflix again last month out of boredom I find it comes in handy for these kinds of situations

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by cakefactory

I don't consider Netflix in what I'm asking, I would NEVER expect their stuff to be consistent (they've proven beyond all shadow of a doubt it isn't, they're practically just on-demand cable with a fancy name). I'm specifically asking about buying a digital copy of a film through some service like ultraviolet/Itunes and having THAT get removed. Has THAT ever happened? I'm unclear from your F4 example whether that happened there, or if it just was made so you couldn't buy it during that time if you hadn't already.

It's happened in video games many times, servers were taken down which were the only way to access your content. Even large corporations like Microsoft and EA have done this. For movies though? Not that I have heard of. And you're probably right that iTunes and Vudu will be around for many decades. Still though, I hate the idea of purchasing something that I need to ask permission to access. Also big companies have surprisingly collapsed before, like Atari or MGM.

[cakefactory]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

It's happened in video games many times, servers were taken down which were the only way to access your content. Even large corporations like Microsoft and EA have done this. For movies though? Not that I have heard of. And you're probably right that iTunes and Vudu will be around for many decades. Still though, I hate the idea of purchasing something that I need to ask permission to access. Also big companies have surprisingly collapsed before, like Atari or MGM.

Bizarrely, the only parallel to that with movies I can think of only apply to physical media, with those stupid old lionsgate and disney discs with all the online bonus features. I just deactivated that on my players, I didn't consider that as part of the bonus features at all. And apparently, I was right to do so, since pretty soon it WASN'T anymore!

Steam is similar to what my idea of buying movies on itunes/vudu is like - if you buy something that they yank, you still have it in your library, and can redownload it despite no one else being able to buy it. Ex, I still have the Mass Effect games in my steam library cause I bought them on there before Origin happened. I know that the consoles don't have that policy, though, with some hilarious examples like people reselling their consoles that have that Silent Hill demo (aka P.T.) downloaded on them for several hundred extra dollars just because there's no other way to get it anymore. That is totally unacceptable IMO. If either vudu or itunes has ever done that, I'd like to know about it.

The online component of the actual games seems to be a different matter to me. I guess that's part of the reason why I strongly avoid anything that isn't primarily one player or local vs/coop. (and thus haven't even bought anything newer than an xbox 360!!) I've never trusted game servers, and I trust playerbases far less. It's always a ghost town after about a year with just about any game.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by cakefactory

If anyone actually has evidence of things disappearing after being bought individually, I'd like to hear it.

It would be impossible for anyone who is against digital to share a personal experience of their digital titles being taken away. If we don't buy anything digital then they can't take anything away.

Originally Posted by cakefactory

Digital copies being made unavailable to buy doesn't concern me that much, I'm asking if once you buy it if it's permanent.

That's a selfish attitude: "I already have my copy so why should I care if others can buy one for themselves?"

I won't even buy DRM-free downloads because I'm against anyone having full control over distribution.

[cakefactory]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

It would be impossible for anyone who is against digital to share a personal experience of their digital titles being taken away. If we don't buy anything digital then they can't take anything away.

I'm not asking for a personal experience. I'm asking for evidence. If no one has ever actually heard of it happening and has no evidence, then why does it come up all the time? Is it empty fearmongering?

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

That's a selfish attitude: "I already have my copy so why should I care if others can buy one for themselves?"

Are you seriously trying to make the argument that I'm a dick for not caring that Fantastic Four was unavailable briefly on digital?

Are you implying that it's the compassionate route to buy blu-rays, because you can scalp them on ebay when they go OOP, or what? Or just that blu-rays are compassionate, because when they're OOP, they're still able to be bought off ebay from scalpers? What was your point? I get that it's better to be able to buy something that's OOP. Anyone that wanted a digital copy and finds it's unavailable is probably going to torrent it anyway, so it hurts the studio more than the consumer. It's mostly people that buy discs that care about following the law with these things.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by cakefactory

Are you seriously trying to make the argument that I'm a dick for not caring that Fantastic Four was unavailable briefly on digital?

Are you implying that it's the compassionate route to buy blu-rays, because you can scalp them on ebay when they go OOP, or what? What was your point?

For every title that's available on physical media it doesn't matter much if it disappears from digital. But as digital becomes more popular less and less titles will be available physically. Eventually those titles won't be available at all.

I don't want scalping. I'd like every title to have enough copies made that it remains cheap and readily available forever. More support for physical media means each title will be more readily available.

[Gotho]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

I refuse to pay for streaming or downloads. I had Netflix's streaming for several months when it was free with the disc plan and the selection was horrible. The quality was poor as well.

You sound like me. I'm just too old school (or maybe just too old) to bother with streaming. If I pay for something, I need to have something to show for it, something I can physically hold or look at. Hell, I still buy VHS tapes on occasion, so I won't be embracing streaming anytime soon.

Even if I were open to the idea of streaming, it would do me no good. My internet speeds are slow as molasses and my isp has a monthly data limit, which would be quickly exceeded if I were to start streaming or downloading everything. I also have no choice of service providers, so I can't just switch.

I don't think physical media will disappear anytime soon. The fact that vinyl records were able to made a come back in an age of digital music, at least gives me hope that streaming won't become the status quo, and instead will remain just another option.