Oh noes teh sky is falling!

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by bigshot

Quality will drop too. We're already seeing labels cut back on the elaborate supplements and booklets. Descriptive text subs and commentary tracks are becoming rarer too. I can see blu-rays become bare bones and pricey.

While Criterion definitely switched to mostly pamphlets to cut costs, I think in general the trend is the opposite. Shout are doing more deluxe editions to get more sales, roping in people who wouldn't buy for an improved transfer but love features and (as Geoff would say) tat. Arrow are all about treating niche movies like collector's items. Twilight Time and Kino are usually bare-bones, but they have been adding features more lately. Also speaking of quality, these labels are paying WAY more attention to great transfers than they ever did before.

I think as we get more laserdisc style niche as a market the labels and studios will try justifying niche prices with more deluxe packages. In a way it's a better future for us collectors, assuming you have the money to pay out.

[Banach]

Originally Posted by eiknarf

That's true.
I guess I was just basing it on:
1.the average person, and
2.the way the two art forms require to be enjoyed.

Does the average person sit still, do nothing and listen to an entire album? I'd say "no".

Does the average person sit still, do nothing, and watch a movie? I'd say "yeah".

Music only requires ears.
Movies requires eyes.

I actually agree with you for the most part. There's a difference in how we consume these things. A movie typically requires both eyes and ears to consume. However, I'm actually watching a movie while typing this (with a laptop in my lap). Is it a "good" or "proper" way of watching a movie? Absolutely not, but it works sometimes, and it's a different thing from sitting down and really focusing on something.

What I'm afraid of is that movies are going the same way music has already gone for the most part. People have enormous libraries at hand and everything is exchangeable. No connections to anything special and everything is just in and out of the brain.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by pmil

Streaming UHD is not impressive. Haven't been impressed yet. Blu-Ray to a UHD TV usually looks better.

I actually don't have a 4K TV yet, but my point is that poster was coming in here spouting that Netflix only streams 720p for its originals as fact when it's just something wrong with his connection.

I watched 2 of those shows at a friends house who does have 4K. and all the originals stream 1080 in my house.

[cakefactory]

Originally Posted by Banach

Perhaps, and if so, that will be sad. It's a bit difficult to predict where everything is heading. Network speeds will get higher due to technical improvements, and so it will be possible to stream higher resolutions. However, will anyone care? I can't really see TVs getting bigger than they are, so will the average person care about higher resolution? There might be a market for high-end transfers close to the theoretical maximum content on the negative, but if no one cares it won't happen. Special features might be interesting for people who stream as well, but again, the average guy won't give a crap.

A limited special edition could still be viable for a company, but the more "normal" edition might not make any money.

I think once network speeds and data transfer limitations (for the ISPs that do that) both become high enough that you can easily stream Blu-Ray quality, that we'll probably see a plateau of quality and an even greater shift towards digital-only. Until we see the ultra-rich people get those sci-fi "glass wall TVs" that we see in movies, of course Or until it starts integrating with VR or something in a way that the higher resolution would have a point. But yeah, due to just space requirements, I can't see TVs in the form they are now getting much bigger.

[Eny-]

Originally Posted by Banach

I think you guys are trying to fit other people's needs into your own world view. As someone who also collects music (both cds and lps), sitting down and listening to a record is a completely different thing from trying to drown out noise with an mp3-player while commuting. At the same time, someone who watches movies while taking a longer train ride has a need for something portable and a bluray player is not the easiest thing to carry around.

I think it boils down to people who has a special interest in something will go the extra mile to obtain a product that's really good. Doesn't matter if it's music, movies or something else (looking at art on your computer versus a gallery?). I don't think physical media will die out, but most people don't give a crap so it will be harder for us who do to obtain things at a reasonable price unfortunately.

edit: so this was aimed at those who felt that music was different than movies above, sorry for the confusion..

I think it's more in line with getting the same quality from a digital file that is more convenient. Like I said, I still buy physical music from Pink Floyd (just two days ago I pre-ordered their new Early Years set that is priced at €400) but because I collect their stuff. I will end up ripping all CDs to FLAC and will listen to them through my media player.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Eny-

I think it's more in line with getting the same quality from a digital file that is more convenient. Like I said, I still buy physical music from Pink Floyd (just two days again I pre-ordered their new Early Years set that is priced at €400) but because I collect their stuff. I will end up ripping all CDs to FLAC and will listen to them through my media player.

He's definitely right that it often comes down to personal priorities though. I've never been a big music guy. I listen to it in the car and when exercising and such, but it's not a huge part of my life and I would never just sit and listen to an album. I'm sure that attitude about music is one big reason I switched to MP3 almost immediately and never looked back. I also never go to concerts unless my wife makes me.

For movies I never watch a film away from my home theater or movie theater and I am very picky about transfer quality and a film look. It's my main "thing" and I care a lot about it, so I want the best picture quality possible and like having the physical collector aspect of discs. My wife couldn't care less, looks at her phone during movies and would never want to own more than the 10 or so discs I have listed as "wife's" in my collection (and even those she never watches).

People are different. Most people aren't crazy anal movie collectors. They do not share our priorities.

[Banach]

Originally Posted by Eny-

I think it's more in line with getting the same quality from a digital file that is more convenient. Like I said, I still buy physical music from Pink Floyd (just two days again I pre-ordered their new Early Years set that is priced at €400) but because I collect their stuff. I will end up ripping all CDs to FLAC and will listen to them through my media player.

I do the same thing, buy and rip everything to flac when I've bought it (if it's already digital that is, lp's are a different animal) for convenience and as a backup. The majority of my listening is done with portable devices just because of how life is right now (lot's of commuting). That said, you could do the same with a bluray. Just dump it to a hard drive and use software to display it on the TV. No quality lost. But obviously there's an order of magnitude in difference with regards to how much space is required so it might not be feasible for movies yet if you're a collector. So that's where convenience comes into play I guess. And also what is regarded as good quality. Would the average person who uses a streaming service notice any difference between that and an illegitimate 1.4GB pirated copy of a movie with a BD-disc as source? I don't know.

I hope that with technology getting better, people will require better presentations of material, but who knows.

[CinemaScope]

Originally Posted by bigshot

Quality will drop too. We're already seeing labels cut back on the elaborate supplements and booklets. Descriptive text subs and commentary tracks are becoming rarer too. I can see blu-rays become bare bones and pricey.

I don't mind bare bones, the new Universal horror sets are a bit like that, no booklet (I assume) or postcards or docs, but that's fine with me, all I ask is for a good transfer these days. And they will get more expensive as the studios license out more & more movies to small companies, & I'm fine with that.

And I still buy CD's, I don't play 'em, I rip them into my ipod & digital player, so I have a CD for every track on my ipod. I can't help it, I've been buying records since 1964 & it's too late to change now...& I don't want to

[Eny-]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

He's definitely right that it often comes down to personal priorities though. I've never been a big music guy. I listen to it in the car and when exercising and such, but it's not a huge part of my life and I would never just sit and listen to an album. I'm sure that attitude about music is one big reason I switched to MP3 almost immediately and never looked back. I also never go to concerts unless my wife makes me.

For movies I never watch a film away from my home theater or movie theater and I am very picky about transfer quality and a film look. It's my main "thing" and I care a lot about it, so I want the best picture quality possible and like having the physical collector aspect of discs. My wife couldn't care less, looks at her phone during movies and would never want to own more than the 10 or so discs I have listed as "wife's" in my collection (and even those she never watches).

People are different. Most people aren't crazy anal movie collectors. They do not share our priorities.

Yes, you are both right. It's of course down to personal priorities but, taking the collector aside, if you listen to music through CD or FLAC is the same. So even if you prefer to sit down beside your stereo and do nothing more than listen to music, the experience will be the same.

Originally Posted by Banach

I do the same thing, buy and rip everything to flac when I've bought it (if it's already digital that is, lp's are a different animal) for convenience and as a backup. The majority of my listening is done with portable devices just because of how life is right now (lot's of commuting). That said, you could do the same with a bluray. Just dump it to a hard drive and use software to display it on the TV. No quality lost. But obviously there's an order of magnitude in difference with regards to how much space is required so it might not be feasible for movies yet if you're a collector. So that's where convenience comes into play I guess. And also what is regarded as good quality. Would the average person who uses a streaming service notice any difference between that and an illegitimate 1.4GB pirated copy of a movie with a BD-disc as source? I don't know.

I hope that with technology getting better, people will require better presentations of material, but who knows.

Yes, you can also rip the Blu-rays but that is not feasible today. I have all my music in a 1 TB hard drive and still have space to spare. For my movies, even a 6 TB hard drive at a bargain price of $291.99 would only hold 1:1 rips of 1/10 of my 1500+ discs?

[Gotho]

Originally Posted by eiknarf

Does the average person sit still, do nothing and listen to an entire album? I'd say "no".

I still do this. It's one of my favorite ways to unwind - put on the headphones, play one of my favorite albums, and just chill out. And I'm pretty average, below average even.

I just like to have a physical copy of something, that way I feel like I've something to show for the money spent. Not to mention being able to read through the liner notes and lyrics that come with cd's and vinyl. Sadly of course, I also realize this is not a big deal to a lot of folks.

[mrjohnnyb]

Originally Posted by Gotho

I still do this. It's one of my favorite ways to unwind - put on the headphones, play one of my favorite albums, and just chill out. And I'm pretty average, below average even.

I just like to have a physical copy of something, that way I feel like I've something to show for the money spent. Not to mention being able to read through the liner notes and lyrics that come with cd's and vinyl. Sadly of course, I also realize this is not a big deal to a lot of folks.

Not to me!

I insist upon having a physical copy of everything. I do not trust streaming and I have had some issues with companies like i-tunes.

Physical copies are the way to insure that you have a REAL LIBRARY!

[Wernski]

Originally Posted by eiknarf

Movies on the other hand, need your undivided attention. You can't enjoy a movie while mowing the lawn, driving, having a party, making love or anything that takes your eyes off the screen.

I don't think you want to know how most young people consume movies today.

Originally Posted by eiknarf

Does the average person sit still, do nothing and listen to an entire album? I'd say "no".

I don't believe they do this watching movies either, at least for home viewing. They're on their phones, they're getting up and leaving the room, they have a movie playing in one window while playing a video game in another... There are some people who sit and concentrate on their music, and their are some who sit and concentrate on their movies. But both are on the decline.

[Banach]

Things get colored due to where this discussion takes place. Of course we would feel like a movie needs 100% focus. I do get really annoyed when watching with someone who does 10 different things in parallel with the movie running (and then of course ask "who is that? / what happened?" etc).

It is similar with music for those of us who really care for it in that way. Sitting down to unwind with a favorite album is amazing. Of course you could do something else at the same time, say reading a book or cleaning the dishes, but that changes the experience completely (it actually is kind of similar to doing something else when watching a movie). Just sitting down in your favorite armchair, with say a cigar and a suitable drink, having the large lp-cover in your lap, and drift away with the music, is one of my favorite things in this world.

And getting back to the physical media, as has been stated a lot of times now, we're a dying breed those of us who feel the "need" for a physical copy. That goes for movies, music, books, and everything else that's easily distributed as files. Will this kill the industry? Probably not, but things will continue to change (probably rather dramatically). As someone who loves to collect physical releases of both movies and music (and books as well for that matter.. I wonder how my wife can stand it sometimes) I hope we're a large enough group that it's worth it to continue producing physical entities.

[philip74]

What always gives me hope is that Christmas still represents around 80 percent of all physical media sales and a billion dollar business.
Since gifting digital codes just isn`t the same, I think companies won`t
want to miss out on those sales

Originally Posted by Banach

Things get colored due to where this discussion takes place. Of course we would feel like a movie needs 100% focus. I do get really annoyed when watching with someone who does 10 different things in parallel with the movie running (and then of course ask "who is that? / what happened?" etc).

It is similar with music for those of us who really care for it in that way. Sitting down to unwind with a favorite album is amazing. Of course you could do something else at the same time, say reading a book or cleaning the dishes, but that changes the experience completely (it actually is kind of similar to doing something else when watching a movie). Just sitting down in your favorite armchair, with say a cigar and a suitable drink, having the large lp-cover in your lap, and drift away with the music, is one of my favorite things in this world.

And getting back to the physical media, as has been stated a lot of times now, we're a dying breed those of us who feel the "need" for a physical copy. That goes for movies, music, books, and everything else that's easily distributed as files. Will this kill the industry? Probably not, but things will continue to change (probably rather dramatically). As someone who loves to collect physical releases of both movies and music (and books as well for that matter.. I wonder how my wife can stand it sometimes) I hope we're a large enough group that it's worth it to continue producing physical entities.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by pmil

Last time I was in Walmart they had a pitiful selection of discs, essentially nothing. Mostly DVD and a basket up front filled with $7.88 discs to sift through. Disgraceful.

Target? Target is better but also a freakin joke with a pitifull selection and turnover to new titles that can literally take years. Their cheaper Blu-Ray deals are typically the same discs for a year or more straight.

Best Buy is much better but still a joke compared to how many discs used to be available and on sale when it was just DVDs. And to top it off the shelves are still competing with DVDs, in 2016! Madness.

The only physical store in America that I've experienced with a huge selection of Blu-Rays is Frys in the west. Sadly I buy most of my discs online.

Oh I agree 100%. Retail is all but worthless now for blu-rays. I was just stating that even though the retail selection is close to worthless now, I still see people in the movie section every time I walk by in the store. So people do still want to buy movies, even those that just wander by. The problem is the selection is so bad most don't end up buying anything.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by Eny-

Yes, you can also rip the Blu-rays but that is not feasible today. I have all my music in a 1 TB hard drive and still have space to spare. For my movies, even a 6 TB hard drive at a bargain price of $291.99 would only hold 1:1 rips of 1/10 of my 1500+ discs?

I bought a couple 4TB hard drives earlier in the year - and they cost just over $130 each. Remember not every blu-ray is 50GB. Probably half in your collection are just 25GB discs. And many or most of those probably aren't even a full 25GB. Many 50GB discs only contain around 30-40GB of data. They don't always fill the entire disc up. They just use the 50GB discs because the 35GB of data they're using doesn't fit on a 25GB disc. I've seen 25Gb discs that are only 17-20GB full.

It also depends on if you want a full disc backup on the hard drive or if you just want the main film for easy access on your HTPC/external media player for instant viewing. You can use MakeMKV and rip only the main film in lossless quality to your hard drive, keeping all the master audio tracks and commentaries you choose, and leave the extras on the disc. That means only the main film would be copied over to your hard drive, saving lots of space. You can also pick and choose any extras you want to copy over. Of course doing it that way doesn't give you a true disc backup that you can re-burn if necessary - it just gives you the main film to watch in a lossless format. But it does give you options.

[nec1912]

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

DVD revenue down 20% from a year ago.
Blu ray revenue down 41.2% from a year ago.

I think there's only one explanation for this: People are not buying the older formats because everyone is saving their money and waiting to invest in UHD blu rays, which will be the most successful home media format in history by far, and which will kill off digital/streaming entirely a couple of weeks after its launch.

I pay $70 a month for my ISP. I get 100Bps download, 15BBps upload and unlimited usage.

Watching UHD would be easy.

Many other ISP are starting to update their internet packages. And I think in 5 years time many other ISP start rolling out gigabit internet.

Google is rolling out gigabit internet in some cities now in US like Kansas and Austin that have gigabit internet.

Six more cities coming on line soon by Google Fiber are: San Antonio, Nashville, Tenn., Atlanta, Charlotte, N.C., Raleigh-Durham, N.C., and Salt Lake City.


With out those upgrades UHD would be unrealistic.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by mar3o

I bought a couple 4TB hard drives earlier in the year - and they cost just over $130 each. Remember not every blu-ray is 50GB. Probably half in your collection are just 25GB discs. And many or most of those probably aren't even a full 25GB. Many 50GB discs only contain around 30-40GB of data. They don't always fill the entire disc up. They just use the 50GB discs because the 35GB of data they're using doesn't fit on a 25GB disc. I've seen 25Gb discs that are only 17-20GB full.

It also depends on if you want a full disc backup on the hard drive or if you just want the main film for easy access on your HTPC/external media player for instant viewing. You can use MakeMKV and rip only the main film in lossless quality to your hard drive, keeping all the master audio tracks and commentaries you choose, and leave the extras on the disc. That means only the main film would be copied over to your hard drive, saving lots of space. You can also pick and choose any extras you want to copy over. Of course doing it that way doesn't give you a true disc backup that you can re-burn if necessary - it just gives you the main film to watch in a lossless format. But it does give you options.

I've been working on this for a few months. I have been ripping all of my BD movie files to external hard drives for backup purposes. Your average 2 hour film usually runs about 30 GBs. Of course the longer the film the higher the GBs. I just ripped Gone with the Wind this morning and it was almost 42 GBs, but it's nearly 4 hours long.

[nec1912]

Originally Posted by mar3o

Oh I agree 100%. Retail is all but worthless now for blu-rays. I was just stating that even though the retail selection is close to worthless now, I still see people in the movie section every time I walk by in the store. So people do still want to buy movies, even those that just wander by. The problem is the selection is so bad most don't end up buying anything.

Not only are retail stores ( like walmart, Target and Best buy so on) selling DVD's yes even DVD's yes I said even DVD's too and blu ray are almost dead these days but even amazon is starting to die.

I'm having trouble getting blu ray and even DVD's from amazon.

Why? Because online streaming and netflix and hulu is killing every thing these days.

The Physical media is dying so fast like a train running of course.

[Banach]

I actually started making backups as well a while ago as well, and that's where my comment about feasibility came from.. it does take up a lot of space. I have been doing this for my cd collection for years (which is more than 6000 units probably) and that takes up several drives. While I'm still in the 3-digit amount of blurays, ripping everything would still take up a lot of drives (even more if you want redundancy in your backups).

I don't know. In some ways I hope that I will come to terms with not having physical copies of everything in the future. It would just simplify matters. I have a background in computer science, so it's not like files are really worth less to me than something on a separate physical disk (apart from paranoia of course), but the collector in me draws too much satisfaction from just standing there and looking at my collection. Which actually gives a rather funny meaning to "I'm watching movies"...