Oh noes teh sky is falling!

[octagon]

Originally Posted by pmil

That's something to be celebrated and to feel good about.

Meh.

Consumers have always balanced quality, convenience and cost. And there have always been consumers who put a higher premium on quality.

We're nothing special. We never have been.

[bigshot]

The problem is that the market needs to hit a critical mass to justify quality. I'm interested in multichannel music... SACD, DVD-A, BD-A, etc... and I am finding that most of the releases I'm getting don't even rise above the level of mediocre. It's such a niche market, and the formats are so poorly supported by consumers now, that the people making the product are cutting corners and crapping it out. There are really good releases, but they're the exception rather than the rule and you have to pay through the nose for them. You have to pay through the nose for the lousy ones too, so there's no way to tell until you've bought it.

[bokes]

Originally Posted by pmil

No, the studios and the retailers are destroying physical media adoption. The idiots in Hollywood and the stores still have far more DVDs for sale than Blu-Rays. It's shameful that DVDs are still being sold. It's shameful how there are so few Blu-Rays in stores. I buy all my favorite Blu-Rays because I believe many or most will never make it to UHD, a format that I don't think will succeed.

During the switch from DVD to blu I heard the same.
Such and such title will never be available in HD.
Well, most everything I wanted and bought on dvd eventually did find its way to blu. In fact many films not even released on dvd have been released on blu.

As long as we are willing to buy and pay for it again, some small company will lease a title and release on UHD.

Scream factory recently started promoting 4K scans of their upcoming releases, why? Because in a year or two- they will be offering the UHD.
They get you to buy it now and they know they will get you down the road.
Business 101.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by octagon

To make myself feel special, of course. A misunderstood outlier in a sea of mediocrity, a relic of a bygone era when people cared about little things like quality...that kind of thing.

Yeah, and that outlook is always based on their specific hobby. A movie enthusiast will look down on people who don't mind watching DVD or having their smooth-motion or DNR settings turned on.

A music enthusiast will look down on everyone who accepts lossy mp3 music or will dare to listen to a loud-compressed album instead of getting the vinyl edition.

Interior decorators would probably think I'm a savage with the quality of my furniture and the way I've got it set up. Etc, etc, etc.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

Let's put this in perspective here-- the ONLY time it was popular and mainstream to own collections of movies and shows was during the peak of the DVD era.

Prior to that, the majority of people rented movies from the video store or watched movies when aired on television (ugh, edited movies with commercial breaks, remember that?) I myself owned a small handful of movies on VHS but it was a drop in the bucket compared to how many movies I bought when I got into DVD.

This is just things returning to normal. Buyers and owners of physical media are getting closer to the old days, when you had the niche enthusiasts buying laserdiscs. Netflix and downloading is the replacement of the video store.

Great post and super important to point out. I have made the same point before when discussing us heading toward being a niche again. I always rented until I got a DVD player in 2000. $1 VHS rentals are the source of my movie fandom. Meanwhile people were paying $50 for laserdiscs at Suncoast Video. The DVD boom turned me on to owning and collecting movies.

Discs will likely go up in price as they get more niche, we're already seeing that to some degree with all the label releases. I'll stick with it though, because now I have the bug.

[mredman]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Great post and super important to point out. I have made the same point before when discussing us heading toward being a niche again. I always rented until I got a DVD player in 2000. $1 VHS rentals are the source of my movie fandom. Meanwhile people were paying $50 for laserdiscs at Suncoast Video. The DVD boom turned me on to owning and collecting movies.

Discs will likely go up in price as they get more niche, we're already seeing that to some degree with all the label releases. I'll stick with it though, because now I have the bug.

Many have that bug or the studios wouldnt earn billions of dollars yearly from Blu-Ray and DVD sales around the World

[flyry]

Originally Posted by film11

Y'know, most people don't even know that NF often streams in 720p!!! That includes some of their "originals". The Pee-Wee movie, the Adam Sandler movie, some eps of DAREDEVIL and JESSICA JONES are shown in 720p, not 1080p Netflix, of course, makes no note of these. Sneaky.

this is complete BS. Jessica Jones and Daredevil are 4K. I believe Pee wee is too. it's definitely 1080 if not though.

sounds like you are using wireless and have poor internet.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by nmycon

What?

If anything, more and more telecom providers are offering unlimited data plans (even the small companies, it's no longer just the giants) and they're getting cheaper every year.

Every year I have to keep calling my ISP to get bumped "down" to a lower-tier plan, because they keep increasing their plan speeds but lowering their prices (for unlimited bandwidth). In other words, I can get equal (or sometimes slightly faster) speeds for less money, with unlimited usage every year!

This is news to me that unlimited bandwidth and mobile data is becoming less common.

You've got it backwards. More and more ISPs are forcing data caps. Read arstechnica and you'll see stories posted regularly of the larger ISPs constantly screwing with their customers by trying out new data caps, throttling speeds, etc.

Not just on arstechnica - you can read about this issue on any tech site.




http://arstechnica.com/information-t...rom-data-caps/

http://arstechnica.com/business/2016...p-enforcement/

http://arstechnica.com/business/2015...ution-to-480p/

http://arstechnica.com/business/2015...deo-providers/

http://arstechnica.com/business/2016...o-200-a-month/

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by koover

No way! It's YOUR hobby. Do you think people who collect odd things like little silver teaspoons or blue plates care?

I've given up even trying to explain my reasons for collecting blus. Last week in a small "personal"'meeting at work, with 2 of my bigger bosses, streaming and movies came up and of course feeling proud, I had to flap my lips and bring up my collection. They ALL looked at me like I was psychotic for collecting physical media, while putting up with comments like "My God, you own how many movies?" Or "what's the point"? They all went on to say, literally, there's no difference with streaming for quality because I've seen both. You're crazy and you don't know what your talking about. Keep in mind, these were my bosses who just so happen to be Aholes on top of it. I lost count of how many bite marks I had on my bottom lip because I was chomping at the bit. I normally couldn't care less what anyone says, but the sure smugness and arrogance they displayed pissed me off to no end.
If you're not into blus or not part of our small little niche clan here on BR.com, people in general have no clue or think you're crazy for collecting or not streaming. According to the masses, there's absolutely no difference!

We're part of a dying breed but physical media and collectors like us will survive. But I believe it'll be at a price. Physical media will never completely go away, but it will get harder to acquire titles (even blockbusters) more and more as time passes and we'll pay for it.

I don't know who some of these people have for acquaintances, but people are ridiculous. When I see some of the preposterous hobbies, obsessions, and habits people support (smoking in 2016 - really?!?), I have to wonder why anybody cares if they have a movie collection. Years from now when the servers get pulled and their "collections' of streaming films disappear and there's no legal way for them to stream their favorite films any more, we'll be laughing. I couldn't care less what some yokel thinks about my movie collection. Why would that possibly be anything to be embarrassed about? I used to have a friend who collected shoes. Shoes for crying out loud. A guy! He literally knew the store date of the newest Nike sneakers so he could scoop them up for his collection. And I'm supposed to be embarrased over my movie collection? Not gonna happen!

BTW, I see plenty of people in Walmart, target etc. still casually browsing the movie isles, so lots of people still buy movies. It's nothing to be embarrassed about. Some people are just morons. Every time I walk into a Walmart they have a front display near the main front doors for upcoming discs, and a display right near the front with random titles. And on Black Friday, tons of people swoop into the movie isles to buy films for themselves and others.

[CinemaScope]

Originally Posted by pmil

I'll be watching my Blu-Rays for the next 20 years, if I live that long. I don't see UHD Blu-Ray making a dramatic difference so 1080 Blu-Ray is the last physical media I buy. I'll never buy a digital movie that I can only access on some company"s servers. Blu-Ray is it for me.

Yup, same here. I enjoy looking forward to them (& reading about what's coming on sites like this), buying them, looking at them & owning them, & Blu-rays are really quite cheap these days. No downside really.

[Cranston37]

Originally Posted by mar3o

Years from now when the servers get pulled and their "collections' of streaming films disappear and there's no legal way for them to stream their favorite films any more, we'll be laughing.

When people say they have gone digital, you can't assume that means they are purchasing. They just aren't. The average consumer doesn't have any "collection" to speak of, they subscribe to movie services and supplement with renting. When we talk about people balking at buying blu-rays, what they are really balking at is the idea of buying a movie in ANY form.

You have to remember... for the most part... people don't look for a particular favorite movie to watch, they just want SOMETHING to watch on a Saturday night and they will choose from what's available.

When we look back on this 5 years from now we will realize the debate never should have been Physical vs. Digital but something else entirely...

[Cranston37]

Also, I encourage anyone who finds this discussion interesting to watch the documentary "All Things Must Pass" about the demise of Tower Records.

It literally ends with the one guy who had worked in the original store since the day it opened saying "I mean even I don't buy music anymore."

[eiknarf]

Originally Posted by Cranston37

Also, I encourage anyone who finds this discussion interesting to watch the documentary "All Things Must Pass" about the demise of Tower Records.

It literally ends with the one guy who had worked in the original store since the day it opened saying "I mean even I don't buy music anymore."

Music is different though.
Music is meant to be enjoyed while doing something else, be it dancing, driving, making love, having a party, bbq-ing, mowing the lawn, doing homework, doing the dishes, cleaning....etc
(Yes, of course you can veg-out in front of the stereo with headphones and submerge yourself, but you don't have to to enjoy it)

Movies on the other hand, need your undivided attention. You can't enjoy a movie while mowing the lawn, driving, having a party, making love or anything that takes your eyes off the screen.

So it's understandable that CDs died. I manufactured them for twenty years. I swore I'd buy CDs forever, and even I stopped buying CDs. Portability is important for music. Not so for movies.

But I will always buy movies on disc. Its completely different.

Music works as a secondary function.
Movies only work as a primary function.

.

[pmil]

Originally Posted by Cranston37

Also, I encourage anyone who finds this discussion interesting to watch the documentary "All Things Must Pass" about the demise of Tower Records.

It literally ends with the one guy who had worked in the original store since the day it opened saying "I mean even I don't buy music anymore."

Would be curious to know how he was getting his music. I still buy music from iTunes. I have no interest in renting my music to listen to it everytime.

[pmil]

Originally Posted by eiknarf

Music is different though.
Music is meant to be enjoyed while doing something else, be it dancing, driving, making love, having a party, bbq-ing, mowing the lawn, doing homework, doing the dishes, cleaning....etc
(Yes, of course you can veg-out in front of the stereo with headphones and submerge yourself, but you don't have to to enjoy it)

Movies on the other hand, need your undivided attention. You can't enjoy a movie while mowing the lawn, having a party, making love or anything that takes your eyes off the screen.

So it's understandable that CDs died. I manufactured them for twenty years. I swore I'd buy CDs forever, and even I stopped buying CDs. Portability is important for music. Not so for movies.

But I will always buy movies on disc. Its completely different.

Music works as a secondary function.
Movies only work as a primary function.

.

I watch my movies but I also often simply listen to them as a I do something else. Or I alternate between watching and listening to a movie while doing something else. A great way to stay awake on long drives is to rip a disc quickly for the audio alone and simply play the movie or TV show while you are driving. Far more effective than just listening to music for staying awake. Night and day difference better. Podcasts also work for that. Movies and TV shows are for video and audio and can be just as portable.

[pmil]

Originally Posted by CinemaScope

Yup, same here. I enjoy looking forward to them (& reading about what's coming on sites like this), buying them, looking at them & owning them, & Blu-rays are really quite cheap these days. No downside really.

Heck I also have quite a few DVDs of TV shows that sadly may never make it to Blu-Ray. And you know what, the quality is actually satisfying and certainly far better than what they looked like when I saw them being broadcasted on TV before HDTV. I am done with future formats. I even have all the important spare parts for my plasma in case it ever needs repairing, something I can also do on my own.

[eiknarf]

Originally Posted by pmil

I watch my movies but I also often simply listen to them as a I do something else. Or I alternate between watching and listening to a movie while doing something else. A great way to stay awake on long drives is to rip a disc quickly for the audio alone and simply play the movie or TV show while you are driving. Far more effective than just listening to music for staying awake. Night and day difference better. Podcasts also work for that. Movies and TV shows are for video and audio and can be just as portable.

Right.
But I know you know what I mean.

Are you going to know what's going on if you are driving and only playing/listening to the audio of movies like Only God Forgives or Mulholland Drive or 99% of movies? They're literally a form of visual art. That means they need to be seen. Watched. Viewed. Looked at... With your eyes. That's what the artist/filmmakers/actors want.

I understand what you're saying, but, if you're listening to the audio track of Under the Skin or 2001 in your car, you're not watching the movie. You're not experiencing the movie.

My point:

Music should be and can be experienced anywhere because the sole purpose of music is to fill your ears and head and soul. You don't need eyes to enjoy music. You do need eyes to enjoy movies.

[pmil]

Originally Posted by CinemaScope

Yup, same here. I enjoy looking forward to them (& reading about what's coming on sites like this), buying them, looking at them & owning them, & Blu-rays are really quite cheap these days. No downside really.

I recently added brand new and sealed Terminator remastered and Alien for $5 each. Can't be that. I was renting movies on Betamax in 1982 for $2.50.

[pmil]

Originally Posted by eiknarf

Right.
But I know you know what I mean.

Are you going to know what's going on if you are driving in your and only playing/listening to the audio of movies like Only God Forgives or Mulholland Drive or 99% of movies. They're literally a form of visual art. That means they need to be seen. Watched. Viewed. Looked at... With your eyes. That's what the artist/filmmakers/actors want.

I understand what you're saying, but, if you're listening to the audio track of Under the Skin or 2001 in your car, you're not watching the movie. You're not experiencing the movie.

My point:

Music should be and can be experienced anywhere because the sole purpose of music is to fill your ears and head and soul. You don't need eyes to enjoy music. You do need eyes to enjoy movies.

Movies that I own I already know what's going on so I don't have to view them. I'm not talking about movies I've never watched. So, yes, movies and TV shows I own are often treated just like music to me. In fact, I often find listening to many movies and TV shows more satisfying than listening to music. People don't think about movies and TV shows that way, but they should.

[pmil]

Originally Posted by mar3o

I don't know who some of these people have for acquaintances, but people are ridiculous. When I see some of the preposterous hobbies, obsessions, and habits people support (smoking in 2016 - really?!?), I have to wonder why anybody cares if they have a movie collection. Years from now when the servers get pulled and their "collections' of streaming films disappear and there's no legal way for them to stream their favorite films any more, we'll be laughing. I couldn't care less what some yokel thinks about my movie collection. Why would that possibly be anything to be embarrassed about? I used to have a friend who collected shoes. Shoes for crying out loud. A guy! He literally knew the store date of the newest Nike sneakers so he could scoop them up for his collection. And I'm supposed to be embarrased over my movie collection? Not gonna happen!

BTW, I see plenty of people in Walmart, target etc. still casually browsing the movie isles, so lots of people still buy movies. It's nothing to be embarrassed about. Some people are just morons. Every time I walk into a Walmart they have a front display near the main front doors for upcoming discs, and a display right near the front with random titles. And on Black Friday, tons of people swoop into the movie isles to buy films for themselves and others.

Last time I was in Walmart they had a pitiful selection of discs, essentially nothing. Mostly DVD and a basket up front filled with $7.88 discs to sift through. Disgraceful.

Target? Target is better but also a freakin joke with a pitifull selection and turnover to new titles that can literally take years. Their cheaper Blu-Ray deals are typically the same discs for a year or more straight.

Best Buy is much better but still a joke compared to how many discs used to be available and on sale when it was just DVDs. And to top it off the shelves are still competing with DVDs, in 2016! Madness.

The only physical store in America that I've experienced with a huge selection of Blu-Rays is Frys in the west. Sadly I buy most of my discs online.