Oh noes teh sky is falling!

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

Many people act like games are buggier now then they used to be just because patches exist. I had a lot more crashes and glitches on Sega Genesis and Playstation 2 than I've had on Xbox 360 and Playstation 4.

Patches can certainly help things but they aren't required and games for the most part don't run any worse now just because the developers can make patches. Games also get delayed a lot more than they use to and I see that as a good sign.

You had crashes with the Sega Genesis? I still have mine and I probably put several thousand hours on it as a kid and rarely did it crash on me.

[ArmyOfDarknessAW]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

Many people act like games are buggier now then they used to be just because patches exist. I had a lot more crashes and glitches on Sega Genesis and Playstation 2 than I've had on Xbox 360 and Playstation 4.

Patches can certainly help things but they aren't required and games for the most part don't run any worse now just because the developers can make patches.

I'm not even going to continue this back and forth. I'm well aware games still had bugs back then, but what patches change now are substantial compared to what is on the disc. Devs release patch info online you can feel free to go read up on the things patches have fixed in different games.
Either way I'm going to respectfully back out. Neither of us will change each other's mind....why bother trying.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

You had crashes with the Sega Genesis? I still have mine and I probably put several thousand hours on it as a kid and rarely did it crash on me.

The biggest problem it had was most games would freeze if you left it paused for more than a few minutes. Some games would also occasionally crash between levels, Pitfall: The Mayan Adventure comes to mind. Knowing all the level-select codes was invaluable.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by ArmyOfDarknessAW

I'm not even going to continue this back and forth. I'm well aware games still had bugs back then, but what patches change now are substantial compared to what is on the disc. Devs release patch info online you can feel free to go read up on the things patches have fixed in different games.
Either way I'm going to respectfully back out. Neither of us will change each other's mind....why bother trying.

I've read all about patches, most of the fixes and features are pretty minor. The disc certainly isn't missing anything from the "promised experience" as you put it. I just don't like you spreading the misconception that internet is required for most games... that isn't true on Playstation 4. I never said that the patches can't help, but they absolutely aren't required for most games.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

The biggest problem it had was most games would freeze if you left it paused for more than a few minutes. Some games would also occasionally crash between levels, Pitfall: The Mayan Adventure comes to mind. Knowing all the level-select codes was invaluable.

That's weird. I mostly played Mortal Kombat, Mutant League Football, and Road Rash. I never experienced any of those problems.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

About 2 years ago an article was released saying that Destiny's digital sales were about 20% of it's total sales and that was unusually high. Most high profile games only had about 12% digital sales. That 12% accounts for all Steam, Xbox Live, and Playstation Network sales so Steam is probably less than 10% of total sales of most high profile games.

I haven't heard anything since but obviously Steam has a long to way to go before it can compete with Playstation 4 and Xbox One disc sales.

Destiny isn't even on PC, so... Like I said, it depends on the game. I have no doubt that Call of Duty sells exponentially more on console, but companies have said flatly that games such as Skyrim, Dishonored, Portal 2, etc. sell extremely well on PC, better than console in some cases. It really depends on the game, and those that suit the PC better or match classic PC genres and styles sell very well.

I had this debate a thousand times when I played games and really don't want to have it now that I am not, though.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

The biggest problem it had was most games would freeze if you left it paused for more than a few minutes. Some games would also occasionally crash between levels, Pitfall: The Mayan Adventure comes to mind. Knowing all the level-select codes was invaluable.

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

That's weird. I mostly played Mortal Kombat, Mutant League Football, and Road Rash. I never experienced any of those problems.

Yeah, I think he had an issue with the console itself, not the games.


The old cartridge games were rock solid and play tested before they were issued in stores. I don't recall anything from those days about a game being rendered unplayable because of a bug. If they were unplayable it was because they were too difficult or just plain stunk.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

I've played dozens of games on my PS4 without ever connecting to the internet. They all ran great: the patches are not required. There may be a few exceptions (I have no interest in No Man's Sky so I can't comment on that), but it is fortunately not the norm.

Sorry but if you play games on the PC (can't speak of the newer consoles but I believe they also qualify under this statement) then many games are close to unplayable without applying at least the early patches. Many games these days ship practically broken due to rushing them out to meet a release date. And this is not something new.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Yeah, I think he had an issue with the console itself, not the games.


The old cartridge games were rock solid and play tested before they were issued in stores. I don't recall anything from those days about a game being rendered unplayable because of a bug. If they were unplayable it was because they were too difficult or just plain stunk.

It's unlikely it was the console as I've had multiple Genesis consoles and they all had the same problems. I wouldn't call the games unplayable, but I wouldn't call anything unplayable now either. Sometimes games crash and I have to start them up again, at worst I've had to replay 5-10 minutes of a game... it's never been a big deal.

But my point was just that games haven't gotten any worse now that companies can patch games. The largest problems have come from server issues, which isn't surprising: it's impossible to test how well their servers can handle hundreds of thousands of people before the game is released. But that isn't a problem for those who play offline.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by mar3o

Sorry but if you play games on the PC (can't speak of the newer consoles but I believe they also qualify under this statement) then many games are close to unplayable without applying at least the early patches. Many games these days ship practically broken due to rushing them out to meet a release date. And this is not something new.

On PC, games require connecting to servers just to activate the game. Therefore whether or not you need to download a patch is irrelevant, PC games are worthless without an internet connection. I stopped playing PC games years ago because of DRM.

Playstation 4 games aren't like that, as I've stated I know this from experience.

[eiknarf]

Whaaaat? I don't recall game consoles or games crashing in the days of Atari, Intellivision, Colecovision, TurboGrafix, Nintendo, Genesis...etc
I feel like crashing started with the first PS and XBOX.
Makes sense. More bells and whistles = more shit could go wrong

[voltz]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

On PC, games require connecting to servers just to activate the game. Therefore whether or not you need to download a patch is irrelevant, PC games are worthless without an internet connection. I stopped playing PC games years ago because of DRM.

And its really disappointing me greatly that "gamers" are welcome to this just because it's convenient. On that note, I read that Oppo is ending their line of 1080p players and the newer ones will have to include online certification (per disc?) as a requirement. If this isn't a red flag on the state of entertainment, I don't know what is.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

On PC, games require connecting to servers just to activate the game. Therefore whether or not you need to download a patch is irrelevant, PC games are worthless without an internet connection. I stopped playing PC games years ago because of DRM.

Playstation 4 games aren't like that, as I've stated I know this from experience.

There are ways around DRM on games if it becomes enough of a problem that you can't play it without being online. Silly conversation anyways.

[cakefactory]

Originally Posted by eiknarf

Whaaaat? I don't recall game consoles or games crashing in the days of Atari, Intellivision, Colecovision, TurboGrafix, Nintendo, Genesis...etc
I feel like crashing started with the first PS and XBOX.
Makes sense. More bells and whistles = more shit could go wrong

You don't recall nintendo screens turning into a mass of colored blocks? Or them refusing to start up until you blew in the cartridge? :P

[PCFan]

Originally Posted by voltz

And its really disappointing me greatly that "gamers" are welcome to this just because it's convenient. On that note, I read that Oppo is ending their line of 1080p players and the newer ones will have to include online certification (per disc?) as a requirement. If this isn't a red flag on the state of entertainment, I don't know what is.

Well PC gamers don't have a choice if they want to continue PC gaming. Most games require Steam, Origin, or Uplay running in the background to play and are tied to users accounts of any one of those online services. Even if you buy a retail physical version of a PC game these days, it's going to most likely require online activation with a service but at least the disc is not needed to play. I still prefer PC gaming over console gaming because of the better graphics and better frame rates since I have a PC much more powerful than the modern consoles. I also only buy digital now for console games since they are the same quality as the physical versions as they require the same hard drive space and I like the convenience of not having to insert a disc each time I play a game and when I'm not required to insert a disc to play a game then I most likely will play a game more often.

[PCFan]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

On PC, games require connecting to servers just to activate the game. Therefore whether or not you need to download a patch is irrelevant, PC games are worthless without an internet connection. I stopped playing PC games years ago because of DRM.

Playstation 4 games aren't like that, as I've stated I know this from experience.

Unless you buy the digital version the PS4 game.

[El_Fez]

Originally Posted by cakefactory

You don't recall nintendo screens turning into a mass of colored blocks? Or them refusing to start up until you blew in the cartridge? :P

Both of those are failures of the hardware of the console, not the software of the carts. And blowing into a cart is a terrible, terrible idea and unlikely to fix anything.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by mar3o

There are ways around DRM on games if it becomes enough of a problem that you can't play it without being online. Silly conversation anyways.

I'm aware of such methods but the fact that the DRM exists in the first place kills the used market for PC games. It means that after an individual title is no longer officially offered it won't be available at all.

With physical media (without online DRM) I can be certain that I'll still be able to buy a copy decades after official support has dropped. If I want to buy an Atari 2600 or NES game I can still find the vast majority of them on eBay.

[gates70]

Originally Posted by El_Fez

Both of those are failures of the hardware of the console, not the software of the carts. And blowing into a cart is a terrible, terrible idea and unlikely to fix anything.

Blowing in the cartridge was the ultimate fix back then man!

[cakefactory]

Originally Posted by gates70

Blowing in the cartridge was the ultimate fix back then man!

Seriously. I was like 6 at the time and the internet didn't exist, all my friends said BLOW IN IT and it usually DID work, so hey I was WAY too young to be a pedantic nerd who did technical research through journals or however things were done before the internet.

Most games have glitches, hence why almost all speed runs take advantage of software glitches to massively shave off time.