Oh noes teh sky is falling!

[I KEEL YOU]

Originally Posted by wonderer99

People say that the general public are not interested in new tech and are "happy" with DVD and SD TV. I don't believe this completely.

Do you believe the cold hard digits?



The SD format still has about a 60-40 market advantage over the HD one 10 years over the HD format was released.

Blu ray has been catching up to DVD for some time, but it's still not quite there and it's still very much a gradual process.

There definitely is a small, wealthy chunk of the marker that is just the opposite though: Those who would invest in an 8K TV and an 8K player if it was released tomorrow.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by wonderer99

Er...yes. I'm not sure I understand?

Meaning why shouldn't Bluray do the same? It's already had its 10th birthday. Why can't the same be true of 4K. It's only digital that makes things so changeable. (And naff)

[LeeFanatic007]

Originally Posted by wonderer99

People say that the general public are not interested in new tech and are "happy" with DVD and SD TV. I don't believe this completely. Since DVD arrived tech has moved so fast that people are just not willing to support something which could be considered a dead format three years later. The worst thing that happened to Blu Ray was that DVD continued to be supported.

At the point that HD TV channels really took off 4K started to be discussed and before that even opened its eyes 8K appeared. You just cant expect the masses to adopt a new tech every few years. That is why streaming is rapidly growing and will ultimately become the standard. Not only is it the easiest option, it is also the safest. Nobody wants to spent thousands on a physical library to have it dropped soon after. I'm saying this a a massive supporter of physical media.

I agree, technology is moving too fast, everything from phones, computers, tablets and physical media are outdated in 2-3 years, with phones it's really every year. Sure this stuff is still usable but there is new tech coming out constantly. It has gotten ridiculous in my opinion.

Blu-ray struggled to convert DVD people and still hasn't replaced DVD, how many people do they honestly think will spend thousands to upgrade everything for the new 4K stuff? Or again to 8K in a couple years? This quality is for only extreme videophiles, the general public doesn't care. And personally Blu-ray is fine for me, huge improvement over DVDs, I'm not buying new TVs, players, cables etc just to see the 4K difference.

[wonderer99]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Meaning why shouldn't Bluray do the same? It's already had its 10th birthday. Why can't the same be true of 4K. It's only digital that makes things so changeable. (And naff)

Because DVD was the sole physical media for a long time just like VHS. The choice was not there. It is because of DVD's continued support that Blu Ray, while popular, has never reached the heights of DVD. Yes DVD was more of a game changer but VHS was phased out much sooner forcing people to adopt DVD on mass. DVD never really had to compete with VHS in the same way Blu does with DVD. 4K on disc has to compete with not only Blu Ray but DVD still. As well as digital like you say. Plus as soon as 4K was released whisperings of 8K arise putting people off further.

[wonderer99]

Originally Posted by LeeFanatic007

I agree, technology is moving too fast, everything from phones, computers, tablets and physical media are outdated in 2-3 years, with phones it's really every year. Sure this stuff is still usable but there is new tech coming out constantly. It has gotten ridiculous in my opinion.

Blu-ray struggled to convert DVD people and still hasn't replaced DVD, how many people do they honestly think will spend thousands to upgrade everything for the new 4K stuff? Or again to 8K in a couple years? This quality is for only extreme videophiles, the general public doesn't care. And personally Blu-ray is fine for me, huge improvement over DVDs, I'm not buying new TVs, players, cables etc just to see the 4K difference.

Exactly. Plus there is the fact that if a media does not get adopted by the masses then less titles are released on it. Blu ray still has a TON of titles still not available and 4K will have much less than Blu. If consumers do not feel like they will be able to buy their favorite titles on a particular media, they wont bother adopting it. DVD should have been dropped a good 5 years ago, 4k skipped altogether and 8K released as the next proper physical media and Blu Ray dropped after a good lifespan.

[wonderer99]

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

Do you believe the cold hard digits?



The SD format still has about a 60-40 market advantage over the HD one 10 years over the HD format was released.

Blu ray has been catching up to DVD for some time, but it's still not quite there and it's still very much a gradual process.

There definitely is a small, wealthy chunk of the marker that is just the opposite though: Those who would invest in an 8K TV and an 8K player if it was released tomorrow.

I did not disagree with the numbers. I disagreed with the reasons why people still support DVD.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by wonderer99

Because DVD was the sole physical media for a long time just like VHS. The choice was not there. It is because of DVD's continued support that Blu Ray, while popular, has never reached the heights of DVD. Yes DVD was more of a game changer but VHS was phased out much sooner forcing people to adopt DVD on mass. DVD never really had to compete with VHS in the same way Blu does with DVD. 4K on disc has to compete with not only Blu Ray but DVD still. As well as digital like you say. Plus as soon as 4K was released whisperings of 8K arise putting people off further.

I know its been said before, but you also have to factor in the convenience and other advantages DVD had over VHS. A movie in good quality on a cd-sized platter, with chapter skipping, menus, and bonus features was really novel back in the 90's. Not to mention it wouldn't degrade or wear out like a VHS tape. Most of these aspects existed on laserdisc too, but that format was always a bit too pricey for most folks and never quite hit mainstream.

Blu-Ray wasn't quite as much as an upgrade. You could go on about the increase quality, how it was close enough transparent to a source master, etc. but those things were only really interesting to enthusiasts like us. Like I said earlier, my mom is a perfect example of someone who doesn't give a crap. She has a Blu-Ray player (I got it for her for Christmas) but she'll usually just rent DVDs from Redbox anyway. For most people, good enough is good enough and DVD was always that.

[Kreepy X]

Originally Posted by LeeFanatic007

And personally Blu-ray is fine for me, huge improvement over DVDs, I'm not buying new TVs, players, cables etc just to see the 4K difference.

Same here, I will just stick with Blu-Ray.

[wonderer99]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

I know its been said before, but you also have to factor in the convenience and other advantages DVD had over VHS. A movie in good quality on a cd-sized platter, with chapter skipping, menus, and bonus features was really novel back in the 90's. Not to mention it wouldn't degrade or wear out like a VHS tape. Most of these aspects existed on laserdisc too, but that format was always a bit too pricey for most folks and never quite hit mainstream.

Blu-Ray wasn't quite as much as an upgrade. You could go on about the increase quality, how it was close enough transparent to a source master, etc. but those things were only really interesting to enthusiasts like us. Like I said earlier, my mom is a perfect example of someone who doesn't give a crap. She has a Blu-Ray player (I got it for her for Christmas) but she'll usually just rent DVDs from Redbox anyway. For most people, good enough is good enough and DVD was always that.

Yeah I agree, that's why I mentioned DVD was more of a game changer. There are a lot of people out there like you say who are happy to stay with what is "good enough". All the more reason for manufacturers and the "industry" as a whole to cooperate more regarding media. Those who are happy with good enough would not complain about an upgrade in pq/aq. They just would not necessarily care about it. If the industry stuck to a single, universally agreed format at a time for a decent length of time then 99% would adopt the format just because it was the only one available. The rapid pace of tech allows too many formats in too short a time making adoption of any one a much slower pace than in previous decades. Couple that with old tech being supported for too long and its a mess.

[eiknarf]

Originally Posted by wonderer99

DVD should have been dropped a good 5 years ago, 4k skipped altogether and 8K released as the next proper physical media and Blu Ray dropped after a good lifespan.

I agree with the "4K should have been skipped altogether" part wholeheartedly.

[bigshot]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

most serialized shows today seem super drawn out and boring to me. I take film 99 times out of 100 and prefer when TV is the "movie every week" style. I know I am in a minority right now though.

I'm with you. I got a good deal on The Sopranos and I watched some episodes and they were great. But I petered out because of the time investment I would have to make to see the series through. I can pick up a great multi season TV show and it will take months to get through, or I can pick up a movie and be in those characters' world for two hours and tomorrow night I can be in another set of characters' world. I tend to prefer the British way of producing series in four to six episodes. It's on a more human scale for me.

One disadvantage to TV shows on discs is knowing where you left off. I can't tell you how many times I have had to watch a few minutes of a show only to realize that I'd already watched that one. In Plex, it marks episodes watched for me and gives me a still and capsule description to help me know if I've seen it before. I much prefer watching TV shows on Plex than on physical media.

[bigshot]

Originally Posted by baheidstu

Re: TV. Everyone says that TV is in a golden age right now and maybe it is in terms of stronger writing compared to stuff from the past where they just repeated the same formula each and every episode (see Batman or Columbo).

In the past, television was built around the personality of the character, not the plot. The Honeymooners was just a dumb guy and a fat guy in a tenement flat every week, but the vividness of the characters and how they interacted with each other knocked it out of the park. That's especially true of the villains in Batman and the guest stars interacting with Columbo.

TV today is more like movies than like TV, especially the drama series. It's like if you cut all the James Bond movies into hour long chunks and ran it as a continuous story. I better not suggest that. Some dim witted TV executive will try to actually do that!

[bigshot]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

I know its been said before, but you also have to factor in the convenience and other advantages DVD had over VHS. 9snip) Blu-Ray wasn't quite as much as an upgrade. You could go on about the increase quality, how it was close enough transparent to a source master, etc. but those things were only really interesting to enthusiasts like us.

And streaming is even more convenient and approaches the quality of blu-ray. Is there any wonder why most people don't buy discs any more, but they all subscribe to Netflix?

[WhySoBlu?]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I would love you to offer your views in the topic started by me named 'where we are headed with Digital' some of the talk bout 5g ties in with this discussion very tightly.

Especially your point about (articles point) about cost cutting measures. Once 5g gets to a stage where we can stream HD on a steady connection and watch tv like we can now with cable or Netflix, won't that just mean we have a mass codes from fibre to 5g. Just paying for a phone contract is a heck of a saving from also paying for a fibre connection to the home. We will find out how many people care about the big screen by 2025 when 5g should be in mainstream use.

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but most phone services out here severely limit the amount of data you get at the highest speed, even if you have "unlimited data." When you read the fine print, those cheap all-you-can-eat services that promise to cut your bill in half often only give you the fast speeds for the first gig or two of data transferred. After that, it's severely throttled. It depends on the service and plan, of course, but if you want a significant amount of the highest speed data you can get over a smartphone, it's going to cost you - and likely more than you would pay for broadband.

[Show spoiler]And besides that, you're missing the point - the cost cutting measures are likely temporary, not wide-spread, and not expected to continue sharply or significantly, remember? As soon as a given family's financial situation improves a bit, they'll likely go back to their far superior broadband service.

And really? 2025? You're doom and glooming over something that won't even supposedly happen for nearly a decade? You really are just obsessed with having something to worry about, aren't you? You simply can't relax, watch a movie, and go about your life without having some sort of stressor poking at that brain of yours, can you? This isn't healthy.

TVs are getting bigger all the time. Broadband internet is getting faster and faster all the time. There's no evidence at all that watching movies at high speeds is a growing trend that will threaten the availability of movies shown at normal speed. This is like the three hundredth time someone has pointed this all out to you, yet all you do is needlessly worry about something that isn't going to happen (and even if it was, you'd be completely powerless to stop or affect it.)

My sister finally bought her first house a couple of months ago. She's in her early 30s and has lived at home with our parents all of her life. Before moving out, she had a sub-30" TV in her bedroom. Now that she's on her own and has her own place, she bought a 50" for her bedroom and a 60" 4K for her living room. I'm sure you'll dismiss her as being an outlier, but the reality is just as we've said for years when we were trying to talk you down from the ledge: kids grow up and eventually move out on their own. Virtually no one who is living in their own apartment or house watches TV or movies on their phone, unless they're broke and can't afford a TV (and those people will acquire a big screen at the earliest possible opportunity.)

As per usual, your concerns are much ado about nothing, Chicken Little.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by eiknarf

I agree with the "4K should have been skipped altogether" part wholeheartedly.

I agree with the "8k is pointless just stop" idea wholeheartedly. Theatrical exhibition has been using 2k for decades, but we need not just 4k but also 8k at home? Come on, it's ridiculous. Even with UHD right now the biggest upgrades are color and HDR, not resolution.

UHD will surely be the last physical format. There is nowhere to go beyond that of any use, and digital will fully take over before I die probably. DVD, BD and UHD will exist as a niche format for decades, getting more expensive and deluxe until it eventually fades. Someday maybe everyone will have wall screens like in Minority Report and 8k or even 16k streams will be the norm, but 99% of movies will be upscales and we'll all be dead.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

But how will we be watching in future? That's what concerns me.

I can't wait for something like this to get affordable.

Which it will. It always does.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by eiknarf

I agree with the "4K should have been skipped altogether" part wholeheartedly.

Couldn't we have said that same thing about something like laserdisc too? Even if interim steps don't catch fire they can be an important part of the evolutionary process.

And at the very least they don't do any harm.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by octagon

I can't wait for something like this to get affordable.

Which it will. It always does.

I bloody hope so, that's stunning.

[happydood]

Originally Posted by octagon

Couldn't we have said that same thing about something like laserdisc too? Even if interim steps don't catch fire they can be an important part of the evolutionary process.

And at the very least they don't do any harm.

Yes, but isn't replicating the theatrical experience the goal rather than turning a picture into something hyper-vibrant just because we can?

Of course, the counter-argument may very well be that the theatrical experience is no longer the goal because the medium has changed so much and will continue to do so. But it seems that by and large with the exception of 3D the goal of digital cameras is still to look like traditional movies. The Hobbit and 3D are kind of proving that a traditional film-like look is still what most people want.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by WhySoBlu?

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but most phone services out here severely limit the amount of data you get at the highest speed, even if you have "unlimited data." When you read the fine print, those cheap all-you-can-eat services that promise to cut your bill in half often only give you the fast speeds for the first gig or two of data transferred. After that, it's severely throttled. It depends on the service and plan, of course, but if you want a significant amount of the highest speed data you can get over a smartphone, it's going to cost you - and likely more than you would pay for broadband.

[Show spoiler]And besides that, you're missing the point - the cost cutting measures are likely temporary, not wide-spread, and not expected to continue sharply or significantly, remember? As soon as a given family's financial situation improves a bit, they'll likely go back to their far superior broadband service.

And really? 2025? You're doom and glooming over something that won't even supposedly happen for nearly a decade? You really are just obsessed with having something to worry about, aren't you? You simply can't relax, watch a movie, and go about your life without having some sort of stressor poking at that brain of yours, can you? This isn't healthy.

TVs are getting bigger all the time. Broadband internet is getting faster and faster all the time. There's no evidence at all that watching movies at high speeds is a growing trend that will threaten the availability of movies shown at normal speed. This is like the three hundredth time someone has pointed this all out to you, yet all you do is needlessly worry about something that isn't going to happen (and even if it was, you'd be completely powerless to stop or affect it.)

My sister finally bought her first house a couple of months ago. She's in her early 30s and has lived at home with our parents all of her life. Before moving out, she had a sub-30" TV in her bedroom. Now that she's on her own and has her own place, she bought a 50" for her bedroom and a 60" 4K for her living room. I'm sure you'll dismiss her as being an outlier, but the reality is just as we've said for years when we were trying to talk you down from the ledge: kids grow up and eventually move out on their own. Virtually no one who is living in their own apartment or house watches TV or movies on their phone, unless they're broke and can't afford a TV (and those people will acquire a big screen at the earliest possible opportunity.)

As per usual, your concerns are much ado about nothing, Chicken Little.

Talking me off the ledge, couldn't hep but laugh at that.