Netflix Turns Focus Back to Disc

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

You can't post one fact, only feelings. I didn't post articles, I posted sales figures.

But you misinterpreted some of those figures to make things look better for digital than they actually are. Facts are only helpful if they are properly understood.

I'm not denying that digital sales/services are growing, but you are overstating the degree to which they have.

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Bluray is not down but you probably know that already.
The new codec will also allow better quality on disc, a world apart from ANYTHING streaming will offer.
Those data caps aren't increasing are they?

Blu-ray sales aren't increasing at anything like streaming rates are. And they aren't enough to make up the decrease in DVD sales.

And that codec won't be the last. At some point the picture is so good, its sales hype. Right now streaming quality is close to or as good as cable and satellite TV. Oh, and streaming is putting a dent in that too. For the first year, pay TV subscribers shrank in 2013.

And I have no cap. I've already streamed over 430GB this month so far.

[vargo]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I will see if I can dig them out. You do know I am talking dvd and bluray sales just to be clear?

Yes, that is what I understood you to be posting about. Physical disc sales.

You said that people in the UK are switching back to disc and the figures support this. So where are these figures? Everything I have seen shows the opposite.
http://www.theguardian.com/media/201...usic-streaming

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

But you misinterpreted some of those figures to make things look better for digital than they actually are. Facts are only helpful if they are properly understood.

I'm not denying that digital sales/services are growing, but you are overstating the degree to which they have.

Such as?

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

Such as?

Go back and read my post on the previous page.

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Go back and read my post on the previous page.

You need to read the Guardian link Vargo just posted which goes into detail. I didn't mistake anything, you did.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

You need to read the Guardian link Vargo just posted which goes into detail. I didn't mistake anything, you did.

No, actually I didn't. My point still stands. I read the article that he posted.

In fact, Vargo's article states:

The digital music, video and games market now accounts for 43% of the total UK entertainment sector

Even if the 60% in the other article was in reference to actual digital media sales, which it wasn't (and not just all media, physical and digital, purchased over the internet, which it was), then it would still run in contradiction to the 43% figure shown here.

Additionally, as far as I can tell the 43% figure is a combination of digital sales and digital services (i.e. streaming) where as the 60/40 breakdown in the other article was strictly about sales and not streaming services (regardless of whether the 60/40 is based on the online vs physical retail or digital vs physical media). Meaning that if you remove streaming from the equation, then the percentage presented in Vargo's article would be much less than 43%, and therefore would be ever farther off from your misinterpretation of the 60% from that other article.


Make no mistake, I'm not saying that digital media isn't growing. It is... for better or worse. And odds are physical media isn't going to have some kind of huge rebound that shoots it's numbers up significantly higher than where they are now. It will likely continue to decline. But the foothold that digital currently has, while solid and growing, isn't presently as big as you seem to think it is.

I do think at some point physical media will roughly level out. There will always be some amount of demand to own the content in a physical form (and before we start a semantics argument, I know having a disc doesn't mean that we "own" the intellectual property of the film itself, etc.). Especially when it comes to big releases like Frozen recently.

[slick1ru2]

Make no mistake, I'm not saying that digital media isn't growing. It is... for better or worse. And odds are physical media isn't going to have some kind of huge rebound that shoots it's numbers up significantly higher than where they are now. It will likely continue to decline. But the foothold that digital currently has, while solid and growing, isn't presently as big as you seem to think it is.

Exact numbers don't matter, its trends.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

Exact numbers don't matter, its trends.

To an extent that is true, but none the less you post data, misinterpret it, and when called out on it, refuse to acknowledge and admit your error.

You can't go on toting the importance of facts when you interpret and state some of them falsely and then refuse to follow through with correcting them upon being made aware of your error.

And while trends matter, the extent to which something is trending/growing also matters. You grossly exaggerated the extent, whether it be purposely or accidentally.

You are already facing an uphill battle posting here on a site dedicated to a physical media format. If you want people to take your posts seriously when it comes to these topics, then you need to be transparent about these things and stick to the facts as best as possible, correcting them when the occasion calls for it, and not just dismissing your significant error(s) as if they don't matter based on some very rough, general trend.

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

To an extent that is true, but none the less you post data, misinterpret it, and when called out on it, refuse to acknowledge and admit your error.

You can't go on toting the importance of facts when you interpret and state some of them falsely and then refuse to follow through with correcting them upon being made aware of your error.

And while trends matter, the extent to which something is trending/growing also matters. You grossly exaggerated the extent, whether it be purposely or accidentally.

You are already facing an uphill battle posting here on a site dedicated to a physical media format. If you want people to take your posts seriously when it comes to these topics, then you need to be transparent about these things and stick to the facts as best as possible, correcting them when the occasion calls for it, and not just dismissing your significant error(s) as if they don't matter based on some very rough, general trend.

What do you call saying, " as far as I can tell the ..." and then going on about YOUR theory on the numbers?

And this site about physical media, specifically PS and Blu-ray has added forums on streaming and the XBox, competing formats. There is a reason for it, changing trends.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

What do you call saying, " as far as I can tell the ..." and then going on about YOUR theory on the numbers?

I leave some room for potential error on my part, so I tend to post in a manner that leaves that small margin open. Meaning if someone can point out and prove that I'm wrong and why, I'm more than happy to admit it. I have yet to have you present anything that even remotely qualifies as a convincing argument as to why I was wrong. The only thing you presented as a counter argument was Vargo's article. As far as the actual numbers go, Vargo's article in many ways did more to contradict the one that you quoted than support it. I never denied the general trend, so that's moot as far as the point of contention here is concerned.

Once again, here is the quote in question:

Figures released by the Entertainment Retailers Association (ERA) found around 60 per cent of video, games and music sales were internet-derived. The other 40 per cent was generated by physical high street shops.

What is being compared are "Internet-Derived" sales versus those from "physical high street shops."

I don't know about you, but when I hear someone refer to a physical shop, I interpret that to mean a physical shop. What I don't interpret that to refer to is a particular type of media format. Whether someone buys a Blu-Ray or a voucher for a digital download from a physical shop, either way the purchase was made in a physical shop.

Likewise, I interpret an "internet-derived" sale to be... oh, I don't know... some kind of sale that takes place over the internet. When I recently ordered just over a half dozen Blu-Rays when FoxConnect.com had a big sale, that was a sale that took place over the internet. Yes, likewise if someone purchases a video download from Amazon or iTunes, that would also be an internet derived sale.

The other piece of evidence that supports my interpretation is that the data came from the "Entertainment Retailers Association" which presumably would be tracking the sales data of entertainment RETAILERS. Meaning that they are tracking trends of ANY entertainment related sales (regardless of format, digital or physical) of online retailers versus physical retailers, and are comparing which type of retailer is selling more.


If you still disagree with me on this and believe that the 60% actually refers to digital media sales, then how do you account for the discrepancy between this figure and that from Vargo's article? And how do you come to the conclusion that PHYSICAL High Street SHOP refers to any and all physical media sales from any retailer (online or physical)?

And this site about physical media, specifically PS and Blu-ray has added forums on streaming and the XBox, competing formats. There is a reason for it, changing trends.

True to an extent, but overstated.

The newest Xbox has Blu-Ray capability. And even before that happened, many people were already gamers, and not everyone sticks to one brand. I have both the Xbox 360 and PS3, with the 360 being the one that I owned first. Logically many PS3 gamers also played games on other systems, it was silly to limit the discussion to only PS3. Heck, PSP discussion has existed for a long time, being a Sony product, but one that never had anything to do with Blu-Ray.

Sure, digital is growing, no doubt. Heck, I have a Netflix streaming account. I still prefer Blu-Ray. Many Blu-Rays have included digital copies for years now, so it makes sense to open the discussion up for that. None the less, you make it sound like this site has changed drastically when really it's been in relatively minor.

[slick1ru2]

Where did I exaggerate about the site changing? I've been put on suspension twice for comparing GT5 to Forza because it was an XBox title. Now there is an xbox forum.

What's funny is you go on and on and yet come to the same conclusion, streaming media is increasing. Isn't that the bottom line?

[Penton-Man]

Regarding Netflix, the following should teach Putin not to annex parts of other countries, as there will be consequences ….http://www.newyorker.com/online/blog...x-account.html

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

What's funny is you go on and on and yet come to the same conclusion, streaming media is increasing. Isn't that the bottom line?

As I said before, to an extent, yes. But it hasn't gotten as far yet as you think it has... forecasts are just that... forecasts. Only time will tell if they were on the money or not. I still expect a lot of growth, and I don't deny the rough, general trend.


That being said, why is it so hard for you to simply state that you were wrong about your interpretation of the 60/40 quote that was the big "fact" you were presenting to make your case when you blasted Steedeel for posting based on feelings instead of presenting facts? Is it really THAT hard to say, "I was wrong"?

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

Blu-ray sales aren't increasing at anything like streaming rates are. And they aren't enough to make up the decrease in DVD sales.

And that codec won't be the last. At some point the picture is so good, its sales hype. Right now streaming quality is close to or as good as cable and satellite TV. Oh, and streaming is putting a dent in that too. For the first year, pay TV subscribers shrank in 2013.

And I have no cap. I've already streamed over 430GB this month so far.

You have no cap. Many millions do!
I have netflix but it can never be a replacement for a true movie fan. How can it? Unless that person is exceptionally patient. Netflix quality is decent but they are focussing on SD more and more what with mobile devices etc.. It's the lowest common denominator. Just like all streaming will eventually become.

[Tok]

The only way I'll support Digital Delivery is as a secondary provider meaning if my disc comes with a code for a cloud copy then that's okay. If Hollywood thinks I'll spend even $10 or more for a cloud only copy then they are smoking crack. No tangible or intrinsic value with a cloud copy.

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

As I said before, to an extent, yes. But it hasn't gotten as far yet as you think it has... forecasts are just that... forecasts. Only time will tell if they were on the money or not. I still expect a lot of growth, and I don't deny the rough, general trend.


That being said, why is it so hard for you to simply state that you were wrong about your interpretation of the 60/40 quote that was the big "fact" you were presenting to make your case when you blasted Steedeel for posting based on feelings instead of presenting facts? Is it really THAT hard to say, "I was wrong"?

Who's talking forecasts? Has Blockbuster closed? Has rentals at Redbox dropped? Has Redbox turned to streaming? Has NetFlix traffic surpassed YouTube? Yeah, you are wrong, these aren't forecasts, this is current affairs.

[Tok]

Netflix is what the vast majority of consumers think when streaming is mentioned. The problem is that model won't be sustained long term. $7.99 for everything under the sun isn't going to last. If customers want A-list content then prices are going up long term.

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by Tok

Netflix is what the vast majority of consumers think when streaming is mentioned. The problem is that model won't be sustained long term. $7.99 for everything under the sun isn't going to last. If customers want A-list content then prices are going up long term.

So? I've paid up to $175/month for satellite TV. It could triple and I'd still subscribe and so would many others. And the selection is better than it was 6 months back, especially after the Epix and Weinstein agreements.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

So? I've paid up to $175/month for satellite TV. It could triple and I'd still subscribe and so would many others. And the selection is better than it was 6 months back, especially after the Epix and Weinstein agreements.

I pay a lot for my triple play cable package. But a lot of Netflix customers pissed and moaned when they mentioned increasing pricing last time.

Tiered pricing is coming back at Netflix if they are going after A-list content and venturing more into producing their own programming.