Film prints in theaters

[Flatnate]

Hey everyone, so I read an article republished in the Saint Paul Pioneer Press last night and it had me thinking. http://www.twincities.com/minnesota/...e-saved-windom . In a nutshell a non profit was formed to save a small town movie theater but they believed they would have till 2015 to save money for a DCI compliant digital projector, however they recently received news that they would no longer be able to acquire prints as of late March/April 2013. So they are quickly trying to raise funds in hopes of buying a digital projector. I wish them the best of luck.

More to the point, I was curious if anyone on the the forums had some real industry updates about the availability of film prints for distribution being discontinued sooner than we first had thought?

I know of some other independently owned local theaters that are still showing film as well, and I understand a non-profit may use different distribution channels which may have dried up. So this situation may not be nation-wide. Still I'm curious when the last day to watch a movie on film might be for me. I'd probably make a trip to the old theater one last time for that.

[WiWavelength]

Originally Posted by Flatnate

Still I'm curious when the last day to watch a movie on film might be for me. I'd probably make a trip to the old theater one last time for that.

Film prints will continue to be exhibited in repertory theaters for decades, if not centuries to come. So, your "last day to watch a movie on film" will likely be the last day that you are alive. However, your last day to watch a new release on film may come soon.

AJ

[Flatnate]

Originally Posted by WiWavelength

Film prints will continue to be exhibited in repertory theaters for decades, if not centuries to come. So, your "last day to watch a movie on film" will likely be the last day that you are alive. However, your last day to watch a new release on film may come soon.

AJ

Yeah, you nailed what I was getting at.

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by Flatnate

however they recently received news that they would no longer be able to acquire prints as of late March/April 2013. So they are quickly trying to raise funds in hopes of buying a digital projector. I wish them the best of luck.

I am not sure if they were all of sudden "informed" that there were no prints available. Movie theatres have been warned that a switch from 35mm to digital will be required if they were hoping to continue playing movies. Many theatres were given the option of something called VPF where the studios would help the cinema recoup some of the costs of converting, the VPF offer was going around for a while, it looks like this theatre simply chose to ignore the reality that they theatre would have to change.

As for 35mm, yes 35mm is being phased out, 2015 is the date that most industry people believe is the date that film will be gone, but I think by the end of 2013 is a better estimate. Eventually there will be a point where studios will simply not strike prints for exhibition regardless if there are any film theatres left.

In Toronto Canada, the city used to have a film lab that would supply prints through the region, Deluxe closed the plant. Technicolor and Deluxe both agreed to stop competing with each other and work together and share what film is left to be made. There are only a few print labs still making 35mm in North America and now they are using high speed printing methods etc.

If you are a small chain theatre, you are pretty much required to change over to digital as movie studios are simply not going to book you 10-12 or 20 film prints for chains.

So back to the theatre in question, they were no doubt warned that they would have to switch, they knew about the switch likely as early as 2011. VPF's were only available from the studio for a short time and would not be on the table for ever. I would hate to see the public have to pay for their upgrade....

[Flatnate]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

So back to the theatre in question, they were no doubt warned that they would have to switch, they knew about the switch likely as early as 2011. VPF's were only available from the studio for a short time and would not be on the table for ever. I would hate to see the public have to pay for their upgrade....

If that is the case I can see how this theater fell through the cracks so to speak. In 2011 that theater was owned by an actual business who apparently elected to close in 2012. They most likely had the VPF window, passed and elected to close. However, later a non-profit organization took ownership of the property they are most likely out of luck in terms of the VPF and are now on the bottom of the list in terms of print availability. This really highlights how non-profits and independent theaters will have the hardest time securing prints if they are unable to transition to digital.

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by Flatnate

If that is the case I can see how this theater fell through the cracks so to speak. In 2011 that theater was owned by an actual business who apparently elected to close in 2012. They most likely had the VPF window, passed and elected to close. However, later a non-profit organization took ownership of the property they are most likely out of luck in terms of the VPF and are now on the bottom of the list in terms of print availability. This really highlights how non-profits and independent theaters will have the hardest time securing prints if they are unable to transition to digital.

A small theatre like that will be on the bottom of the list for print availability. Especially for opening runs of a movie. Basically, movie prints are still being made for the theatres that are currently converting. I know of one owner who refuses to believe that 35mm prints will stop being made. It will happen, the cost of making these prints will skyrocket and studios will not pay for them being made, theatres owners have to remember that the studios pays for the print, not the theatre chain.

Originally Posted by Flatnate

. This really highlights how non-profits and independent theaters will have the hardest time securing prints if they are unable to transition to digital.

Large independents are changing over. You are right the smaller one offs will have a very difficult time booking prints very soon. Already they are finding it difficult. Lots of small theatres are showing blu rays of some movies already.


NOTE: I will say this, when 35mm is done for good, I really do believe we might see a return of 70mm for select cinemas, during this most recent transition to digital, I was shocked to see 70mm return in the form of The Dark Knight Rises, showings of the The Hobbit, Skyfall etc as well as The Master. Venues that have been showing 70mm movies in 2012-2013 did very well and the demand for the tickets was high, North of the border in Canada, there were five cinemas in the Toronto market that screens 70mm movies in the 2012, the three IMAX theatres still showing Hollywood movies, the Varsity that installed 70mm for The Master and the Tiff Lightbox which regularly shows 70mm films including The Master. IMAX in some venues has preserved the option to play 70mm as well as digital 2k in some places.

These cinemas all charged a premium between $15 and $19 for 70mm, I am sure the studios took notice and the demand for the screenings was very high.

[Flatnate]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

NOTE: I will say this, when 35mm is done for good, I really do believe we might see a return of 70mm for select cinemas, during this most recent transition to digital, I was shocked to see 70mm return in the form of The Dark Knight Rises, showings of the The Hobbit, Skyfall etc as well as The Master. Venues that have been showing 70mm movies in 2012-2013 did very well and the demand for the tickets was high, North of the border in Canada, there were five cinemas in the Toronto market that screens 70mm movies in the 2012, the three IMAX theatres still showing Hollywood movies, the Varsity that installed 70mm for The Master and the Tiff Lightbox which regularly shows 70mm films including The Master. IMAX in some venues has preserved the option to play 70mm as well as digital 2k in some places.

I very much hope this is true. At the least I hope that in the future I can find more screenings in 4K but without the 3D. It seems that near me, most 4K screenings are almost always 3D as well, and depending where you live it often leaves someone looking for a pristine 2D picture out in the cold.

My other hope is that if some of these small venues can get past the financial hurdle and do transition to digital that it will open the door for more kinds of films and programming than say the typical Hollywood mainline films with a three week delay. For instance, indy films, retro stuff, grind house, and even live broadcast could help keep these little gems stay running.

[Penton-Man]

Flat –
Relevant to your query as it pertains to new motion pictures, see https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ot#post7259219

^ The above prediction was recently even publically mentioned at a past ICTA event -
http://www.internationalcinematechno...vents/january/

As far as making your cinema night out a *special event*, the current topic of interest these days is Dolby Atmos…as it has a future.

[Flatnate]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Flat –
Relevant to your query as it pertains to new motion pictures, see https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ot#post7259219

^ The above prediction was recently even publically mentioned at a past ICTA event -
http://www.internationalcinematechno...vents/january/

As far as making your cinema night out a *special event*, the current topic of interest these days is Dolby Atmos…as it has a future.

Holy cow! This fall with two distributors?! Not even 2015, wow. Yeah I guess I am not surprised. Thanks for that heads up Penton. Still hoping to watch a film in 4K 2D with Dolby Atmos at some point.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Flatnate

Holy cow! This fall with two distributors?! Not even 2015, wow. Yeah I guess I am not surprised. Thanks for that heads up Penton. Still hoping to watch a film in 4K 2D with Dolby Atmos at some point.

in about a month...
http://www.oblivionmovie.com/

[Flatnate]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

in about a month...
http://www.oblivionmovie.com/

Thanks for the heads up again!

Now if only they would build an Atmos theater in my state. I may fly out somewhere.

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by Flatnate

. It seems that near me, most 4K screenings are almost always 3D as well, a

Hey Flatnate, there are no 3D 4K showings. 3D has been only shown exclusively in 2K.

[Flatnate]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

Hey Flatnate, there are no 3D 4K showings. 3D has been only shown exclusively in 2K.

True, but I thought many of those theaters that use 4K projectors and screens often are only exhibiting a film 2K 3D. Like I know Kansas City was showing the Hobbit in 48fps 3D in their Dolby Atmos theater but I figured I was out of luck wanting to watch it on that screen in 4k 2D (even though it was easily capable of doing both). I should have called to see if they switch it up for different showings. At least near me it still seems like you have either one or the other and more than likely 2K 3D.

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by Flatnate

True, but I thought many of those theaters that use 4K projectors and screens often are only exhibiting a film 2K 3D. Like I know Kansas City was showing the Hobbit in 48fps 3D in their Dolby Atmos theater but I figured I was out of luck wanting to watch it on that screen in 4k 2D (even though it was easily capable of doing both). I should have called to see if they switch it up for different showings. At least near me it still seems like you have either one or the other and more than likely 2K 3D.

I am not sure what they were advertising, but The Hobbit was a 2K movie in 24/48fps in 3D, 2k in 2D, and 35mm.

Currently, to date, there have been no 3D movies released in 4K.

[Flatnate]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

I am not sure what they were advertising, but The Hobbit was a 2K movie in 24/48fps in 3D, 2k in 2D, and 35mm.

Currently, to date, there have been no 3D movies released in 4K.

No argument there, it just seems like I strike out when ever it comes to watching anything 4K, even when I know it is a theater capable of doing it. I know my local cineplex has three 4K screens as well, but they are almost always booked with 2K 3D running on those screens. Not a huge Tom Cruise fan but I'm actually looking forward to Oblivion for this.

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by Flatnate

No argument there, it just seems like I strike out when ever it comes to watching anything 4K, even when I know it is a theater capable of doing it. I know my local cineplex has three 4K screens as well, but they are almost always booked with 2K 3D running on those screens. Not a huge Tom Cruise fan but I'm actually looking forward to Oblivion for this.

I hear ya, Skyfall was 4K. Did you see that?

[Flatnate]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

I hear ya, Skyfall was 4K. Did you see that?

Indeed I did... on 35mm... *facepalm*

Oy, we went to a really nice locally owned theater a few miles out of town with better food and beer, but now I feel really stupid as this was a priority for me. Also, I remember Skyfall being 4K as well! Ugh, we just weren't thinking that night.

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by Flatnate

Indeed I did... on 35mm... *facepalm*

Oy, we went to a really nice locally owned theater a few miles out of town with better food and beer, but now I feel really stupid as this was a priority for me. Also, I remember Skyfall being 4K as well! Ugh, we just weren't thinking that night.

Well, at least you saw it in 35mm, how did it look?

4K is nothing special. I saw Samsara in 4K and was not overly impressed

[Flatnate]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

Well, at least you saw it in 35mm, how did it look?

4K is nothing special. I saw Samsara in 4K and was not overly impressed

It looked as good as any film print I had seen to be honest. Judder was very minimal. I found some focus issues at the very outer edges of the screen. It also had a few specs of dust and well pretty much all of the little things you see with a typical film screening when you look for them.

I was really hoping to catch Samsara, or possibly the one night run of Lawrence of Arabia in 4K. Work unfortunately made Samsara really difficult and Lawrence impossible.

[Penton-Man]

Flat, this film was exhibited in 4K 3D over a year ago in Galveston -
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2180529/...ef_=tt_dt_spec

With their 1 GB data rate streaming capability, the Qube server manufacturer can also do (in 2D) up to 60 fps for 4K projection and up to 240 fps for 2K content….not to mention 2K 3D content up to 120 fps per eye….with supporting dual projectors.

At the current time, at least in the case of that particular manufacturer, the engineering has outpaced the standards organizations. Which actually brings up another interesting *sticky* situation, namely, the DCI...in terms of recommendations and specs… https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...00#post6639136

As there are many people in the industry who believe that the original 250 Mb/sec data rate set by the DCI years ago was too low for optimal 4K presentations of source content having a true resolution of 4K or more.