HDR Discussion Thread

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

SG stands for system gamma which is briefly mentioned in ITU BT.2100:
https://www.itu.int/rec/R-REC-BT.2100
SG is explained more fully in this BBC document on HDR from 2015:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/publications/whitepaper309

Correct….and quite well done . Although I must admit since gkolb is also a friend and gave it a go , as a rookie I was rooting for him to spin the wheel again and land on the last word of post #816 from the last page.

P.S.
Heads-up, as an aside (for advanced reading) yesterday a report (Draft 1) was uploaded from the last meeting in mainland China which expands on the application of ICtCp, HLG and SEI messages in the coding of HDR/WCG video.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DanBa

"I’d be very surprised if....

What’s with all of a sudden people submitting posts with the lead out “I’d be very surprised” or a similar variant of that, e.g. with Billy Lynn…https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...d#post12914913

Makes me tempted to utilize YouTube yet again…..

Surprise-Surprise-Surprise.flv - YouTube

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

So, for those not processing the hint, I’m talkin skin tones.

Although HLG skin tones with today’s monitors and TVs may be quite acceptable (even HLG conversions from PQ as viewed by independent observers - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...d#post12847729), if future years bring consumers TVs with markedly higher luminances, then this may well become an issue. This is a busy time for me, preparing for the Holidays, traveling down to our get-away place in San Diego, etc. so I’ll have to elaborate later as to the how and why.

^ to the bolded....quickly, the thinking/arguement is that as/IF TVs get brighter and brighter, the HLG skin tones get brighter, which is not a good thing because it is desirable to keep the skin tones consistently in let’s say about the 20-30-ish nit level and then just add more headroom for effects or highlights along the way, but with HLG everything just moves up and down.

On the other hand, how critical are perfect shin tones with live sports HDR delivery? Maybe if you’ve got the camera fixed on the cheerleaders otherwise .

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

...quickly,

before heading on down to San Diego , on an audio note, a news tidbit - ‘designed to simulate a home theater environment’….http://www.hollywoodprofessionalasso...eid=9d9eb6fc84

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

as/IF TVs get brighter and brighter, the HLG skin tones get brighter, which is not a good thing ...

...? Maybe if you’ve got the camera fixed on the cheerleaders otherwise .

Glowing vampire cheerleaders wouldn't be bad

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

On the other hand, how critical are perfect shin tones with live sports HDR delivery? Maybe if you’ve got the camera fixed on the cheerleaders otherwise .

Being as much of a nerd as I am, it always amuses me when watching a sports event on telly and I can see differences in the colour and/or contrast when it cuts from camera to camera. Given the sheer amount of cameras that cover such events these days I don't think it's reasonable to expect that every single shot from every single angle will uniformly look the same, even in HDR, so that I could live with.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

Glowing vampire cheerleaders wouldn't be bad

You’re getting me aroused.

Get-away trip postponed due to subtropical storm coming up from western Baja. Local roads have flooding and the freeways had too many accidents for us to feel comfortable in driving. I can post a few in the meantime before we try again to make the trek down south later after Christmas.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Being as much of a nerd as I am, it always amuses me when watching a sports event on telly and I can see differences in the colour and/or contrast when it cuts from camera to camera....

A couple of beers during viewing should cure that elitist nerd affliction. In fact alcoholic supplementation is beginning to be protocol for when I watch thee Arsenal play during this Holiday stretch. But if you dig doing that sort of stuff and don’t consider it work, we should have recruited you as an observer for one of ITU’s sub working groups study awhile ago in which observers had to critically look at 10 different (and boring) video clips to determine how relevant compression (bit rate) was in displaying 4K 60p content well.

Results showed that 4 clips (simple scenes, nothing’s moving and mostly black) compressed well (HEVC encoding) at only 15 Mbps, but 4 clips required 30 Mbps to look good (meaning achieving a Mean Opinion Score of 4 out of 5 in subjective viewer testing), finally with 2 of the clips even at 40 Mbps couldn’t achieve a Mean Opinion Score of 4 out of 5. As opposed to streaming, Ultra HD Blu-ray bit rates definitely rule.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I don't think it's reasonable to expect that every single shot from every single angle will uniformly look the same, even in HDR, so that I could live with.

Given your old stomping grounds, you of all people shouldn’t be bothered with such color discrepancies as content rules….

Crystals "Glad All Over" featuring the ROAR of the Jacksonville Jaguars NFL team - YouTube

[Penton-Man]

Follow-up from 12/16 post with visual illustration (the SDR monitor is on the far right)

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Little pictured green animals with big red eyes ^ seem to get a lot of face time in promotions…..as well as in the grading suite -

Talking head interview from 12/21 doing more explaining….http://www.insideci.co.uk/articles/i...yer-trial.aspx

Something not said or perhaps not clear, but I’ll add - the general challenge of having a backwards compatible production and distribution workflow for VOD HDR is ahead of that for live broadcast HDR because of the relatively immature end-to-end tool chain of the later….so far.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

http://www.insideci.co.uk/articles/i...yer-trial.aspx

Reminder: Andy Q. is still on as a speaker at PTS next month, as previously noted....https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...y#post12962488

[Robert Zohn]

I was just informed that I was chosen to be a speaker at NAB 2017 on the new TV System. I suggested the session to NAB's education department and it was approved along with me as the UHD/HDR technical presenter.

NAB 2017 marks my 30th year participating at the TV Broadcast convention.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

...NAB 2017 marks my 30th year participating at the TV Broadcast convention.

wow, that’s quite a string, now I don’t feel too badly about dating myself to the younger membership.
I assume much of that run was in conjunction while working for Hitachi before you became a small business owner.

[Robert Zohn]

Thanks Penton-Man. Will you be attending NAB in April 2017?

I love all sciences and my life passion has been photography and cinematography.

My professional TV Broadcast systems engineering career began in 1986 with Ikegami, but most of my professional broadcast career was with Hitachi Denshi, which is now Hitachi Kokusai.

In 1998 I started Value Electronics while maintaining a successful consulting position with Hitachi professional.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Thanks Penton-Man. Will you be attending NAB in April 2017?.....

Yes, that’s the plan most every year, for one thing, when the opportunity arises, I enjoy sharing info with the membership here on Blu-ray.com which is not publicly revealed to attendees of NAB….and long before the journalists and bloggers learn of it, e.g. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...d#post12215113

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

I love all sciences and my life passion has been photography and cinematography.
My professional TV Broadcast systems engineering career began...

You’re a good man Robert.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by bruceames

A place for discussing....

Yo, Bruce, when you started this thread, not quite the contributions you’d expected, eh? (photos from grading suites, SEI messages, nuances of HLG before it became a fashionable journalistic acronym, Robert's employment history, etc. Here, I’ll give you one as you like this sort of stuff…..
http://www.mesalliance.org/2016/12/2...lenges-remain/ as most of dem Ultra HD Blu-rays are HDR.

[StingingVelvet]

Oh crap.

My wife just surprised me with a UHD TV for Christmas, which is a totally rad thing for a wife to do of course. However she got me one without real HDR. It's a Samsung with their HDR+ or whatever that isn't true HDR because it's only 400nits and 8-bit. I feel like if I keep it I will be waiting to get a better TV ASAP, whereas if I got a real HDR set I would be set for a decade.

I'm not even sure I can still return it because she bought it a month ago though. Also it would break her heart a bit since she says she "researched it endlessly" (though my quick research tonight shows middling reviews). I really don't know what to do.

Dammit!

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Oh crap.

My wife just surprised me with a UHD TV for Christmas, which is a totally rad thing for a wife to do of course. However she got me one without real HDR. It's a Samsung with their HDR+ or whatever that isn't true HDR because it's only 400nits and 8-bit. I feel like if I keep it I will be waiting to get a better TV ASAP, whereas if I got a real HDR set I would be set for a decade.

I'm not even sure I can still return it because she bought it a month ago though. Also it would break her heart a bit since she says she "researched it endlessly" (though my quick research tonight shows middling reviews). I really don't know what to do.

Dammit!

What model?

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by ray0414

What model?

A 60" KU6300. It's a total bust for UHD. While it has an "HDR mode" it's only 8-bit and 400nits so it sounds pretty pointless. Every pro-review makes it sound pretty pointless for HDR content, which is the main reason to go UHD. I never thought she would buy me a freakin' TV so I never said anything more specific than "I want to get a 4k TV soon." She saw a good deal on a "good brand" 4k TV and jumped on it.

It's a super cool gesture and gift, but I got a nice new 1080p TV a couple years ago specifically because I was going to wait until 4k sorted itself out a bit and get a high-functioning TV. This is a waste for that purpose. However it is also tempting to open it up tomorrow and make my 1200 blu-rays look a lot better. Then I can get a real HDR set in a couple more years.

I dunno. Conflicted.