UltraHD Blurays and players will start coming by Christmas 2015. Still buying blurays

[Blu MacReady]

Originally Posted by bobbydrugar

Some good points being made. I think penguin that the manufacturers are about to learn the very thing you just said. I also believe this is purely based on hardware peddlers trying to convince people who just sprung for new 1080P TV's to buy new 2160P TV's. and I think the content will be lacking and I believe the profits will not be there for the Hardware folks and I think this will be a very hard lesson learned and we all suffer because of it. The headlines will read "See physical media is dead, Sales of UHD are poor" etc. etc. And in the end we will get a renewed focus on Streaming content and many of the major hardware manufacturers will be financially hurt leaving us even fewer options when choosing to purchase new TV's and Blu-ray Players.

As for Ruined I think your last point was spot on. Lets work to get blu-ray done right before we try to start in on something else.

T

Spot on reply. Let them start with getting popular movies correct and using BD full potential first off. Looking as discs like Weird Science, a hugely popular movie looks awful on 'high definition'. It'll just be the same complaints on UHD. Release movies we've been waiting over 10yrs for rather then yet another issue of The Dark Knight please.

[Dylan34]

Originally Posted by bobbydrugar

Some good points being made. I think penguin that the manufacturers are about to learn the very thing you just said. I also believe this is purely based on hardware peddlers trying to convince people who just sprung for new 1080P TV's to buy new 2160P TV's. and I think the content will be lacking and I believe the profits will not be there for the Hardware folks and I think this will be a very hard lesson learned and we all suffer because of it. The headlines will read "See physical media is dead, Sales of UHD are poor" etc. etc. And in the end we will get a renewed focus on Streaming content and many of the major hardware manufacturers will be financially hurt leaving us even fewer options when choosing to purchase new TV's and Blu-ray Players.

As for Ruined I think your last point was spot on. Lets work to get blu-ray done right before we try to start in on something else.

T

I recently purchased the Sony x850c last month and it's a nice 4K tv, but I totally agree that blu-ray should have been made perfect right out of the gate, let alone 10 years into the formats life, before a new resolution was released to become the new standard. HDR and a wider color spectrum could have been used with blu-ray. Also, titles should have been given the golden glove treatment from day 1 instead of all the re-releases that have surfaced over the last decade. Studio's and Sony should have been promoting the Blu format like gangbusters before 1 unit was ever sold. A lot of stuff could and should have been done to help make the format top notch, and to promote it better. It could still be done if Sony and company were willing to, but I'm afraid that ship has sailed. They all want streaming and digital downloads which is friggin' ridiculous!!!!!

[bobbydrugar]

The streaming issue is what actually scares me the most. That puts us one step closer to Pay Per View digital streaming, which physical media has kept in check.

T

[tenia]

If they're smart but ballsy (something the industry has never been), they'll push UHD through UHD-exclusive AAA titles, like Spectre or the humpteenth Transformers movie, just like the video game industry has done with titles like Batman Arkham Knight.

The same as HD TVs have been sold much more than BDs, I don't think UHD will sell as media support but rather as hardware. I don't know what the figures are in UK and USA, but in France, BD has a 25% market share while 75%+ of the households have HD-capable TVs. There really is a huge discrepancy between the 2 figures, which suggest households ARE interested about upgrading their hardware, but they just don’t care (or worse : don’t know) which support to play on their new sets. There’s a huge lack of knowledge from the general audience in how fully exploiting the hardware anyway, and to be fair to this audience, the manufacturers certainly don’t help them since all the options they’re claiming as differenciating marketing factors are 99% of the time detrimental to the picture quality.

“Hey, I have a brand new option that make the picture looks like crap ! Buy Me ! Buy Me !” And then, everybody wonders why many people don’t know what a good BD should look like...

[tenia]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

They can't possibly make much of a profit on just hardware sales. Even expensive hardware tends to be a small profit margin. It's possible that some hardware may even lose money at launch.

It's not a question of margin (and I don't worry about hardware making margins, they sure do, ESPECIALLY at the beginning since it's an ultra premium product, no consumer knows exactly how much they should pay for it), it's a question of restarting TV sets sales that are now stale since most of the households have now replaced their old CRT TV sets by Flat HDTV ones.

So bye bye HDTV, welcome UHD TV sets to watch the Football World Cup or the Olympic Games or whatever, and this will allow for the opening of another replacement rate : HDTV by UHD TV.

[I KEEL YOU]

Originally Posted by tenia

I don't know what the figures are in UK and USA, but in France, BD has a 25% market share while 75%+ of the households have HD-capable TVs. There really is a huge discrepancy between the 2 figures, which suggest households ARE interested about upgrading their hardware, but they just don’t care (or worse : don’t know) which support to play on their new sets.

Why do you think this exactly? When an old TV breaks down you can't buy anything but HD TVs in stores. It's less because they are interested in upgrading their hardware and more because that there aren't other alternatives. Plus HD TVs are flat screens and are nicer to look at in the living room.

[kidglov3s]

Originally Posted by tenia

So bye bye HDTV, welcome UHD TV sets to watch the Football World Cup or the Olympic Games or whatever, and this will allow for the opening of another replacement rate : HDTV by UHD TV.

In stunning broadcast 1080i of course.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Gold Ranger

The only way for Blu-Ray to be done right is to wipe out DVD completely!

I've been saying this for years. The studios need to stop the DVD only SKUs if they release a film on BD. Since we are looking at the next thing the studios need to stop including DVDs in combo packs except for kids/family movies.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Gold Ranger

The only way for Blu-Ray to be done right is to wipe out DVD completely!

Blu-ray prices would have to drop even further though otherwise they will be leaving a lot of money on the table with cheaper DVDs.

I think they could have phased out new DVD-only movie releases making them only for Blu-ray but lowering the price so they match new DVD title release prices. Combos might be okay for some titles.

But there is also a lot of other stuff on DVD that will never see the light of day on Blu-ray. Not just movies, but documentaries, music, sports, etc. so those would have to still be made.

[Blu MacReady]

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

Why do you think this exactly? When an old TV breaks down you can't buy anything but HD TVs in stores. It's less because they are interested in upgrading their hardware and more because that there aren't other alternatives. Plus HD TVs are flat screens and are nicer to look at in the living room.

Also (UK) we ditched analoge TV reception, it's digital and I think that blew away the big tube TVs, also no hdmi cable slots for Sky tv boxes etc.

You can buy HD ready TVs around 32"-40" for like £200 in supermarkets, maybe less. You are spot on in your comment that there also isn't any choice to buy an old style tube tv.

If many can't see Dvd becoming obsolete, does anyone expect BD to disappear?

It has a low market share, hasn't defeated DVD and there is an apparent push toward streaming. Can anyone see studios, with costs involved, issuing a dvd and UHD version of a movie but no BD? Right now that would be my only reason to yet again upgrade.

[kidglov3s]

Originally Posted by Blu MacReady

Also (UK) we ditched analoge TV reception, it's digital and I think that blew away the big tube TVs, also no hdmi cable slots for Sky tv boxes etc.

You can buy HD ready TVs around 32"-40" for like £200 in supermarkets, maybe less. You are spot on in your comment that there also isn't any choice to buy an old style tube tv.

If many can't see Dvd becoming obsolete, does anyone expect BD to disappear?

It has a low market share, hasn't defeated DVD and there is an apparent push toward streaming. Can anyone see studios, with costs involved, issuing a dvd and UHD version of a movie but no BD? Right now that would be my only reason to yet again upgrade.

Over the past year there have been several new releases that have been DVD and Digital only, no Blu-ray, like Strange Magic and Addicted.

[samukas]

If anything it should be the other way around, which is why it's nerve-racking.

BD-only releases for quality with Digital (HD) code as the lesser version... which is still better than DVD.

[Blu MacReady]

Originally Posted by kidglov3s

Over the past year there have been several new releases that have been DVD and Digital only, no Blu-ray, like Strange Magic and Addicted.

I'm thinking more mainstream titles. If/when it's Transformers 7 or Romero does Planet of the Dead or something, it's available DVD or UHD with digital copy. That's it - no BD.

It has,looking on here, a market share of 25-30%. Guesstimate UHD takes 10-15% away. They then become roughly equal, as let's assume DVD stays at 70%.

With the costs involved in production of BD and if UHD-BD production has been put in place, would they bother to make three format versions of each movie? When WB finally issues Young Guns II, will they spend to have both BD & UHDBD made? It's still 10yrs and they clearly don't think BD of it is worth their while...replace YGII with any of your wish list....

Haven't some TV shows had BD releases of seasons 1,2,3 then it's only DVD going forward?

[I KEEL YOU]

Originally Posted by Blu MacReady

Also (UK) we ditched analoge TV reception, it's digital and I think that blew away the big tube TVs, also no hdmi cable slots for Sky tv boxes etc.

You can buy HD ready TVs around 32"-40" for like £200 in supermarkets, maybe less. You are spot on in your comment that there also isn't any choice to buy an old style tube tv.

If many can't see Dvd becoming obsolete, does anyone expect BD to disappear?

It has a low market share, hasn't defeated DVD and there is an apparent push toward streaming. Can anyone see studios, with costs involved, issuing a dvd and UHD version of a movie but no BD? Right now that would be my only reason to yet again upgrade.

Well, the logic behind the argument that Ultra HD blu ray can be a success is that there are people who care about quality (blu ray owners) and those who don't (DVD owners). Those who invested in blu ray (for example us as the members of this forum) care about picture quality and because ultra HD blu ray offers better picture quality than ordinary blu ray, there will be enough people willing to upgrade from the slice of the market that cares about picture quality.

Now, the results of this poll in which there are almost 400 votes seem to indicate that only 10 percent of blu ray owners will be willing to upgrade to UHD blu ray, nevermind the fact that the members of this forum aren't even ordinary blu ray owners, but also blu ray aficionados since they discuss the format on a forum. But let's say that that number of 10% is misleading and doesn't tell the entire story, which it probably doesn't because the question of the poll doesn't mean that just because they won't stop buying ordinary blu ray that they also won't upgrade to UHD... So let's just say that some of the people who voted "No" will be willing to upgrade anyway because they don't know the full benefits of UHD yet, etc... So let's double, or even triple that 10% number. Hell, to make it a nice and round number, let's just say that 50% of blu ray owners will upgrade to UHD instead of the measly 10% from this poll. So that's 50% of the owners of the blu ray format that is already niche and has around 30% of the market compared to DVD's 70%. So even from the most optimistic perspective, numbers of people who will be willing to upgrade to UHD doesn't seem to be high.

[bobbydrugar]

UHD is not very likely to take half of the blu-ray owners out of the pool. it will likely amount to a smaller percentage then blu-ray is taking from DVD.

Here are my reasons for thinking this. In order to transition from SD-DVD to Blu-Ray the consumer realistically needed to purchase an HDTV. Early in the Blu-ray release cycle this was not an economically sound decision for the majority of consumers so they stuck with DVD and their older SDTV. Then the digital cable transition came along and many consumers were "forced into buying a new TV anyway so they picked up what was available at the time (either 720P, 1080i, or 1080P) HDTV. This also had the added benefit of costing less to operate then the old CRT which was a power hungry monster compared to the nicer looking sleeker flat panel LCD that was out. So what the hell they bought a new TV. And with Either the scalar on the TV or the DVD player they had the DVD looked pretty good (Remember they may have also discovered Component Cables, and HDMI at this time which would have made their DVD's look better then before).

Fast forward a few years and there is no Digital transition to force people into buying a UHDTV and many of these users are still fine with DVD. There is no driving force behind UHD except bragging rights of early adopters. I think it will pan out 70%DVD, 28%Blu, 2% UHD. Just a thought. which means UHD will never be a viable option on its own.

Hope I'm wrong.
T

[#Darren]

Originally Posted by blu macready

it has,looking on here, a market share of 25-30%. guesstimate uhd takes 10-15% away. They then become roughly equal, as let's assume dvd stays at 70%.

lol

[bobbydrugar]

What is most interesting about that post of 10-15% is that if UHD took 10-15% of the Blu-ray audience that would only amount to about 2.5-4% total market share. Again leaving it around 70%DVD, optimistically 25%Blu, and 5% UHD. Still not very good numbers. it would be fiscally irresponsible for a studio to not release a Blu-ray disk that has a much higher adoption rate and opt into only DVD (which will happen no matter what as there are too many DVD users) and UHD. they would lose too much money on that exchange and therefore they won't do it. Honestly as much as I do look for "perfect picture and perfect sound" the industry trying to sell me on "MORE perfect picture, and MORE perfect sound" is not going to happen. Especially until they iron out a finished standard for UHD products (I will never again buy and buy again because of maliciously bad planning by the industry to withhold features for a later date to upsell me again).

I wish them luck but I just don't really see a viable path for them to take as this course of action is poisonous and will likely backfire on the hardware manufacturers.

again hope I am wrong.
T

[dannydeez]

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

Well, the logic behind the argument that Ultra HD blu ray can be a success is that there are people who care about quality (blu ray owners) and those who don't (DVD owners). Those who invested in blu ray (for example us as the members of this forum) care about picture quality and because ultra HD blu ray offers better picture quality than ordinary blu ray, there will be enough people willing to upgrade from the slice of the market that cares about picture quality.

Now, the results of this poll in which there are almost 400 votes seem to indicate that only 10 percent of blu ray owners will be willing to upgrade to UHD blu ray, nevermind the fact that the members of this forum aren't even ordinary blu ray owners, but also blu ray aficionados since they discuss the format on a forum. But let's say that that number of 10% is misleading and doesn't tell the entire story, which it probably doesn't because the question of the poll doesn't mean that just because they won't stop buying ordinary blu ray that they also won't upgrade to UHD... So let's just say that some of the people who voted "No" will be willing to upgrade anyway because they don't know the full benefits of UHD yet, etc... So let's double, or even triple that 10% number. Hell, to make it a nice and round number, let's just say that 50% of blu ray owners will upgrade to UHD instead of the measly 10% from this poll. So that's 50% of the owners of the blu ray format that is already niche and has around 30% of the market compared to DVD's 70%. So even from the most optimistic perspective, numbers of people who will be willing to upgrade to UHD doesn't seem to be high.

You said it right. The poll doesn't give enough answer options. My vote would have to be "no" BUT as soon as UHD blu rays are available I will be switching to that, and upgrading some of my favorite titles.

I don't know why DVDs are still made, and who would even want them these days. I could understand years ago when blu ray players cost upwards of $800 but they're under $100 now. DVD is dead, IMO. They need to stop making them.

[kidglov3s]

Originally Posted by dannydeez

DVD is dead, IMO. They need to stop making them.

And throw away 70% of the movies-on-disc market?

[dannydeez]

Originally Posted by kidglov3s

And throw away 70% of the movies-on-disc market?

But then couldn't they just make them on blu rays instead? People can buy an $80 blu ray player and still play their old dvd collection and then move forward into the future with blu ray only releases.