Poll: Should Sony use DTS-HD Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD?

[Tok]

Wow! Some of the dts fanboys use about as much logic as the old diehard redants.

Personally I don't care, but I think Dolby has done a much better job delivering a product that worked out of the gate with few issues. Also Dolby is a much more efficient codec that requires much less processing horse power.

Lossless is lossless. I still think that fact is lost some of the diehard fanboys.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by SBrooks1

At the end of the day Sony cares about sales. And judging by the poll numbers they can logically assume that more people may buy their Blu-ray's if they release them with DTS-HD MA. Regardless if their opinion is based on science or not.

More people probably base their decision if a lossless delivery option is available, not which codec is used.

In the last two nights, I watched THFRO and T2. Personally I prefered the TrueHD track of THFRO over the dtsMA track on T2. Does that mean I think Dolby is better? No I simply prefered the mix of the THFRO over the T2 mix. It's the mix people.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by trans22

the UK disc of TERMINATOR 3, sounds no different to the dvd

The dts-ma track on Robocop sounds no better than the DVD track.

[Monkey]

Whoever said to tally all the review scores and tally them by codec, good idea. I'd like to see the results. Doby did some great post on statistics during the blu-ray/hd dvd war. Of course blu-ray came ahead in PQ and SQ on average it would be interesting to see how TrueHD stacks up to DTS-MA.

More people probably base their decision if a lossless delivery option is available, not which codec is used.

This was true for me at some point, I avoided movies with substandard audio quite often during the format war. I'm always bummed if they don't have a lossless codec.

[ganthc]

Actually, I would say that the polls is more like 87% are okay with Sony moving to DTS-HDMA, considering 27% are fine either way. So that seems like a pretty lopsided result to me.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by SBrooks1

At the end of the day Sony cares about sales. And judging by the poll numbers they can logically assume that more people may buy their Blu-ray's if they release them with DTS-HD MA. Regardless if their opinion is based on science or not.

Honestly, with the market that's out there I don't think changing the audio codec would affect their sales by even 0.1% and it's not something that could be measured anyway because the market for Blu-ray is growing all the time. They could use dts-ma on Spider-man 4 and see 1,000,000 units moved in the first week and think it's fantastic then in 2014 use Dolby TrueHD on Spider-man 5 and see 2,000,000 units moved in the first week. To suggest in either case it was the audio codec would be incorrect.

Originally Posted by Scorxpion

Hello DobyBlue,

You know i respect you a lot and all of the insiders here including Peter THX.

i want from you to do a ratio or probability calculation and you did it in the past remember the fight with the failure format about PQ and AQ.Blu-ray always wins with a margin of percentage overall.

i will not go far away and choose 50 discs containing DolbyTHD and 50 containing DTSHD master audio from this site ,do the math calculation and tell me if DTSHD master audio will not win with a slightly margin overall.

whatever is the result i will accept it.


Thanks,

I do remember my spreadsheet and it was a giant pain in the ass!! hahaha! Man, that thing took away a bit of work time, let me tell you.

I remember arguing with that moron rdjam about how great VC-1 WAS NOT and showing him that averaging out the numbers showed that AVC had the highest average picture rating. Now of course the VC-1 numbers included all of those Warner catalogue titles while most of the AVC movies were newer, but I made the numbers show the point I wanted to make. The fact was that if you did it by year the difference between the scores was vastly reduced.

Here, let me ask you this:

Collectively, which of these represents a better collection of soundtracks:

dts-hd Master Audio - The Fly, Robocop, Carrie, Jewel of the Nile, The Longest Day, Thing, Amityville Horror, Baby Mama, A Bridge Too Far, Be Kind Rewind,

Dolby TrueHD - Batman Begins, The Matrix Trilogy, Cloverfield, The Dark Knight, Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds, Eagle Eye, Hancock, Iron Man, Nine Inch Nails Live, Spiderman 3, Transformers

PCM - 50 First Dates, Basic Instinct 2, Blackbeard, Clockwork Orange, Dirty Dancing, Flatliners, Full Metal Jacket, The Great Raid, I Know Who Killed Me, Life of Brian, Pretty Woman, RV

If you don't chose TrueHD here, you're kidding yourself. It doesn't matter whether some are from different years or genres because these are all different sources and unless you can compare multiple audio codecs from the same source then there is no conclusion worth drawing. Of course if you could take all the new movies with dts-ma or PCM or TrueHD on them and say they all unequivocally suck then perhaps you'd be onto something, but that's not the case. Of course that makes my little exercise here pointless because it's not worth noting as data and that in itself is the point of the exercise.

Originally Posted by ganthc

Actually, I would say that the polls is more like 87% are okay with Sony moving to DTS-HDMA, considering 27% are fine either way. So that seems like a pretty lopsided result to me.

But they're also okay with Sony staying with TrueHD, or okay with Sony using PCM, so your interpretation of the results is not correct. There are only 60% of people polled saying that they want Sony to change. The other 40% are not voting that they want Sony to change to dts-ma, simple fact. You go ahead and misinterpret the results as you see fit of course!

Originally Posted by Monkey

Whoever said to tally all the review scores and tally them by codec, good idea. I'd like to see the results. Doby did some great post on statistics during the blu-ray/hd dvd war. Of course blu-ray came ahead in PQ and SQ on average it would be interesting to see how TrueHD stacks up to DTS-MA.

I would be happy to send the spreadsheet to anyone from where it was left off, which was around October 2007.

Remember though, it tallied five sites, so you've got over 900 reviews to first separate into PCM, TrueHD or dts-ma then tally all the scores. I've no desire to do it. And if you want it to give an even more usable result you'll divide the films into decade first.

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by BIslander

It will be a business decision. Preferences for dts-MA definitely exist among consumers, for whatever reasons. If those preferences translate into improved sales and if there aren't other off-setting considerations, then Sony will likely make the switch. But, how many people who say they prefer dts-MA are not buying Sony releases right now because they use TrueHD? I suspect that's not a very big number.

It probably isn't a "very big number." But, it is a number nonetheless. And the fact that the number even exists is something that Sony is trying to rectify.

I, myself, have picked up a number of Sony titles with the intent to purchase only to turn the case over, read that TrueHD is the lossless codec and then proceed to replace the title back on the shelf.

Now, for those hardcore "lossless is lossless" arguers, here's an interesting concept for you. There are many people who clearly prefer DTS HD MA despite the scientific technical proof that DTS HD MA and TrueHD are identical. Those people will continue to throw more money at studios who support the DTS HD MA codec over the studios that support the TrueHD codec. Warner and Sony have both lost much income from me in the past. Now, what about the reverse? Do those who argue "lossless is lossless" plan to stop purchasing titles from Sony if they adopt the DTS HD MA codec? Probably not. So, bottom line is, WHO REALLY CARES? EITHER WAY YOU GET YOUR LOSSLESS! So, stop pandering to those of us that find better audio in the DTS HD MA codec (for whatever our reasoning) and let Sony make a decision based on the improvement of their sales.

[Scorxpion]

Again there is an important factor we should never forget,Do we remember when PS3 got a firmware update for DTSHD master audio ,Blu-ray.com was like an earthquake and barely took an opportunity to calm down.

[Scorxpion]

dts-hd Master Audio - The Fly, Robocop, Carrie, Jewel of the Nile, The Longest Day, Thing, Amityville Horror, Baby Mama, A Bridge Too Far, Be Kind Rewind,

Dolby TrueHD - Batman Begins, The Matrix Trilogy, Cloverfield, The Dark Knight, Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds, Eagle Eye, Hancock, Iron Man, Nine Inch Nails Live, Spiderman 3, Transformers

With all my respect DobyBlue cant agree,here you are right DolbyTrueHD is superior.But i want you to compare Casino Royale to Qauntum of Solace upon AQ.Die Hard 4 to Batman Begins or Dark Knight,Eagle Eye to Taken,Alien VS Predator 2 to Hancock or Transformers here we can have equivalence or Hitman to Spiderman 3 ,or you can compare Incredible Hulk to Eagle eye or Hellboy2 to Iron Man or the Bourne Ultimatum to Cloverfield and ect.... At least DTSHD master audio can be slightly better

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

But they're also okay with Sony staying with TrueHD, or okay with Sony using PCM, so your interpretation of the results is not correct. There are only 60% of people polled saying that they want Sony to change. The other 40% are not voting that they want Sony to change to dts-ma, simple fact. You go ahead and misinterpret the results as you see fit of course!

The results that matter are those who are for and those who are against. So you could see them as 61% want it, 12% don't want it, and 27% don't care. If you were Sony and saw those results, and you saw that only 12% are opposed to the switch, I think the misinterpretation is on your part that you don't want the change to happens. So you read more negatives into the results than are there. Why group those that do not care with those that are opposed to the switch?

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by Scorxpion

dts-hd Master Audio - The Fly, Robocop, Carrie, Jewel of the Nile, The Longest Day, Thing, Amityville Horror, Baby Mama, A Bridge Too Far, Be Kind Rewind,

Dolby TrueHD - Batman Begins, The Matrix Trilogy, Cloverfield, The Dark Knight, Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds, Eagle Eye, Hancock, Iron Man, Nine Inch Nails Live, Spiderman 3, Transformers

With all my respect DobyBlue cant agree,here you are right DolbyTrueHD is superior.But i want you to compare Casino Royale to Qauntum of Solace upon AQ.Die Hard 4 to Batman Begins or Dark Knight,Eagle Eye to Taken,Alien VS Predator 2 to Hancock or Transformers here we can have equivalence or Hitman to Spiderman 3 ,or you can compare Incredible Hulk to Eagle eye or Hellboy2 to Iron Man or the Bourne Ultimatum to Cloverfield and ect.... At least DTSHD master audio can be slightly better

But I put those movies in there on purpose because you HAVE TO pick TrueHD in those cases. My comparison is pointless, it's totally unfair to PCM and dts-ma. But it's no more pointless that your comparison is because in each case you're comparing completely different sources and as such that makes any COMPARISON of the audio quality completely pointless.

You get what I'm saying?

The only true comparison would be if Hulk had both TrueHD and dts-ma encodes from the same master, then you would be making a valid comparison. Or if Iron Man included a dts-ma track from the same source to compliment the TrueHD track. In each of these cases there will be no difference in fidelity of playback.

[neo_reloaded]

I truly can't believe people's arguments have stooped to the level of "I don't care if all the science in the world proves me 100% wrong, Sony should switch codecs just to appease my ignorant misconceptions." I'd be embarrassed to voice such an opinion, but apparently many here are not.

[BStecke]

This thread is hilarious. So many facts that people just turn a blind eye to. I'd love to see Sony re-release some of their TrueHD discs with DTS HDMA and see everyone crushed when there's no difference.

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by Scorxpion

With all my respect DobyBlue cant agree,here you are right DolbyTrueHD is superior.But i want you to compare Casino Royale to Qauntum of Solace upon AQ.Die Hard 4 to Batman Begins or Dark Knight,Eagle Eye to Taken,Alien VS Predator 2 to Hancock or Transformers here we can have equivalence or Hitman to Spiderman 3 ,or you can compare Incredible Hulk to Eagle eye or Hellboy2 to Iron Man or the Bourne Ultimatum to Cloverfield and ect.... At least DTSHD master audio can be slightly better

Sorry, Scorxpion, but you've missed the point. In fact, your post actually supports what DobyBlue is saying. All of this is about comparing different movies with different mixes. The lossless codecs that were used have nothing to do with sonic quality of any of these titles.

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

dts-hd Master Audio - The Fly, Robocop, Carrie, Jewel of the Nile, The Longest Day, Thing, Amityville Horror, Baby Mama, A Bridge Too Far, Be Kind Rewind,

Dolby TrueHD - Batman Begins, The Matrix Trilogy, Cloverfield, The Dark Knight, Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds, Eagle Eye, Hancock, Iron Man, Nine Inch Nails Live, Spiderman 3, Transformers

PCM - 50 First Dates, Basic Instinct 2, Blackbeard, Clockwork Orange, Dirty Dancing, Flatliners, Full Metal Jacket, The Great Raid, I Know Who Killed Me, Life of Brian, Pretty Woman, RV

Ok... from the list YOU CREATED, yes! But, aside from The Dark Knight, all of those films don't even hold a candle to,

Master & Commander
The Transporter (entire franchise)
30 Days Of Night
Independence Day
Sin City
Behind Enemy Lines
Quantum Of Solace
The Incredible Hulk
Mr. & Mrs. Smith
Dark City
Robocop
Speed
The Day After Tomorrow
Day Watch
Night Watch
Sunshine
Die Hard (entire franchise)
Heroes (S1 + S2)
Shoot 'Em Up
The Marine
Wanted
Hitman
I, Robot
Saw (entire franchise)
Wall-E

...just to name a few that I've seen off the top of my head.

That's not to say that the TrueHD audio presentation isn't enjoyable. But, they don't offer the same experience as most of the films that I listed. Different films, yes. Different mixes, yes. However, the DTS HD MA encoded soundtracks CONSISTENTLY outperforms through my system. TrueHD just seems to perform. At least I am willing to admit that it does so to my ears though.

[Scorxpion]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

But I put those movies in there on purpose because you HAVE TO pick TrueHD in those cases. My comparison is pointless, it's totally unfair to PCM and dts-ma. But it's no more pointless that your comparison is because in each case you're comparing completely different sources and as such that makes any COMPARISON of the audio quality completely pointless.

You get what I'm saying?

The only true comparison would be if Hulk had both TrueHD and dts-ma encodes from the same master, then you would be making a valid comparison. Or if Iron Man included a dts-ma track from the same source to compliment the TrueHD track. In each of these cases there will be no difference in fidelity of playback.

Yes i understood and comprehend you very well.I hope one day Sony will give us this opportunity and put on the same movie both of the lossless sound to compare.But my point is and i'm 100 percent sure about it if Underworld rise of the Lycans,Dark Knight,Batman begins,or even Casino Royale get DTSHD master audio the results on their AQ will not be 4.5 but 5 stars all the way.

Looking forward and wishing it very badly that Terminator salvation,Angel and Demons will get DTSHD master audio like Wolverine and (Fast and furious) during their release on BD this year .Just i wish my dream come true one day

[BStecke]

He listed Dark Knight . . .

Originally Posted by dobyblue

dts-hd Master Audio - The Fly, Robocop, Carrie, Jewel of the Nile, The Longest Day, Thing, Amityville Horror, Baby Mama, A Bridge Too Far, Be Kind Rewind,

Dolby TrueHD - Batman Begins, The Matrix Trilogy, Cloverfield, The Dark Knight, Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds, Eagle Eye, Hancock, Iron Man, Nine Inch Nails Live, Spiderman 3, Transformers

PCM - 50 First Dates, Basic Instinct 2, Blackbeard, Clockwork Orange, Dirty Dancing, Flatliners, Full Metal Jacket, The Great Raid, I Know Who Killed Me, Life of Brian, Pretty Woman, RV

[lghaze42]

I voted yes because I have yet to see a Dolby True HD soundtrack that compares to DTS MA .Just pop in a Lionsgate BD and check out the DTS MA intro, it is loud and agressive just like the movie you are about to see.Still I don't think Sony will drop Dolby.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by BIslander

Sorry, Scorxpion, but you've missed the point. In fact, your post actually supports what DobyBlue is saying. All of this is about comparing different movies with different mixes. The lossless codecs that were used have nothing to do with sonic quality of any of these titles.

Exactly. Comparing Casablanca (1942) with Quantum of Solace (2008) is just as pointless as comparing Die Hard 4 with Fantastic Four 2.

Originally Posted by lghaze42

I voted yes because I have yet to see a Dolby True HD soundtrack that compares to DTS MA .Just pop in a Lionsgate BD and check out the DTS MA intro, it is loud and agressive just like the movie you are about to see.Still I don't think Sony will drop Dolby.

So what you're saying is that out of these movies you think the dts-ma tracks are the best?

dts-hd Master Audio - The Fly, Robocop, Carrie, Jewel of the Nile, The Longest Day, Thing, Amityville Horror, Baby Mama, A Bridge Too Far, Be Kind Rewind,

Dolby TrueHD - Batman Begins, The Matrix Trilogy, Cloverfield, The Dark Knight, Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds, Eagle Eye, Hancock, Iron Man, Nine Inch Nails Live, Spiderman 3, Transformers

PCM - 50 First Dates, Basic Instinct 2, Blackbeard, Clockwork Orange, Dirty Dancing, Flatliners, Full Metal Jacket, The Great Raid, I Know Who Killed Me, Life of Brian, Pretty Woman, RV

[CAB]

Originally Posted by neo_reloaded

I truly can't believe people's arguments have stooped to the level of "I don't care if all the science in the world proves me 100% wrong, Sony should switch codecs just to appease my ignorant misconceptions." I'd be embarrassed to voice such an opinion, but apparently many here are not.

I want the choice that will default to the best possible option on the disc that my gear (player) will decode without me picking from a list of items. I'm not lazy about working the menus but it's been a pain for many of the Blus I've watched and I do own a few. I am lazy about having to explain to family and friends what the differences are between PCM, DD, D TrueHD, DTS, DTS HR, and whatever other options show up. I want to them to see a list of languages available and they can just the one they are fluent in.

I chose DTS in the poll because I've seen the single choice work on DTS and not so much on TrueHD. I also thought that if Sony chose to put several HD tracks on the disc and still maintain compatibility with legacy gear the DTS solution was a bit more elegant. I don't care about efficiency of the hardware or the amount of CPU required because I have to do have that any for the releases from the other studios. I want more space available on the disc for PQ, the purest lossless audio in my language, and cheaper consumer costs.

Perhaps the poll can be redone to ask how many people would be inconvenienced if Sony went all DTS-HD MA. I had to upgrade players to process DTS because there's no way I was going replace my pre/pro because I'd have to lay down about $8K and go digital out. Then what was I going to do with 8x Red Dawn interconnects.

/rant off

I have to say, I learned a lot about about TrueHD and DTS from this thread and even more about most of you.