Poll: Should Sony use DTS-HD Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD?

[Petra_Kalbrain]

But, what I'm trying to say is that I can hear a difference everytime when watching action driven content. I volume match and have DRC turned off. Everytime, a DTS HD MA track will create a much more vivid 3D listening environment than TrueHD. It cannot be a coincidence that it's only the mixes that I prefer since it is always the same thing with each codec. If it was the mixes, I'm certain that every title you listed under TrueHD would have made my ears bleed with joy... not just The Dark Knight.

[blu2]

Originally Posted by BStecke

This thread is hilarious. So many facts that people just turn a blind eye to. I'd love to see Sony re-release some of their TrueHD discs with DTS HDMA and see everyone crushed when there's no difference.

The scary thing is they will think they hear a difference.

[BStecke]

Originally Posted by blu2

The scary thing is they will hear a difference.

Well played, sir

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

But, what I'm trying to say is that I can hear a difference everytime when watching action driven content. I volume match and have DRC turned off. Everytime, a DTS HD MA track will create a much more vivid 3D listening environment than TrueHD. It cannot be a coincidence that it's only the mixes that I prefer since it is always the same thing with each codec. If it was the mixes, I'm certain that every title you listed under TrueHD would have made my ears bleed with joy... not just The Dark Knight.

OK. Then, what is it?

DTS and Dolby make no claims about either being superior to the other. Both claim they produce outputs that are identical to the studio masters. Audio professionals, the people who actually do this work, say the outputs are identical. Technical equipment that measures the outputs say they are identical. Properly configured test environments produce results with no preferences beyond the norms.

So, what accounts for the differences you hear?

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

But, what I'm trying to say is that I can hear a difference everytime when watching action driven content. I volume match and have DRC turned off. Everytime, a DTS HD MA track will create a much more vivid 3D listening environment than TrueHD. It cannot be a coincidence that it's only the mixes that I prefer since it is always the same thing with each codec. If it was the mixes, I'm certain that every title you listed under TrueHD would have made my ears bleed with joy... not just The Dark Knight.

Then I can only presume something is wrong with one of the Dolby decoders in your system, not obeying your DN setting, something like that, because what you're suggesting just doesn't exist outside the source material I'm afraid.

And for what it's worth, those TrueHD tracks are reference on my system. That Dave Matthews disc is still one of the first discs I pull out to show off my system, followed closely by The Dark Knight, Cars and Band of Brothers

Originally Posted by BIslander

OK. Then, what is it?

DTS and Dolby make no claims about either being superior to the other. Both claim they produce outputs that are identical to the studio masters. Audio professionals, the people who actually do this work, say the outputs are identical. Technical equipment that measures the outputs say they are identical. Properly configured test environments produce results with no preferences beyond the norms.

So, what accounts for the differences you hear?

I think we need to put a call into Fox Mulder.

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by neo_reloaded

I truly can't believe people's arguments have stooped to the level of "I don't care if all the science in the world proves me 100% wrong, Sony should switch codecs just to appease my ignorant misconceptions." I'd be embarrassed to voice such an opinion, but apparently many here are not.

Where did you get that quote from?

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

I think we need to put a call into Fox Mulder.

I should say so!

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

But, what I'm trying to say is that I can hear a difference everytime when watching action driven content. I volume match and have DRC turned off. Everytime, a DTS HD MA track will create a much more vivid 3D listening environment than TrueHD. It cannot be a coincidence that it's only the mixes that I prefer since it is always the same thing with each codec. If it was the mixes, I'm certain that every title you listed under TrueHD would have made my ears bleed with joy... not just The Dark Knight.

Like I said I'd love to see the data on review scores for how TrueHD titles have averaged compared to DTS-MA. I don't blame anybody for not wanting to take on the task (that is a hell of a lot work).

I wonder who would come up on top? Is peoples experiences with having a higher percentage of better mixes on DTS-MA being reflected in this poll? Definitely could be a correlation. Could TRueHD and DRC have a negative impact for TrueHD votes, could be..

[Scorxpion]

"They've done it with Close Encounters - there is no difference between the two."

This is not enough to compare both of lossless sound, old movie which has a remastered surround so they should be identical out of measurement.

"You are only correct if the reviewer has a bias towards dts-ma, because if they're from the same source then they will be IDENTICAL!"


We should compare Underworld rise of lycans DolbyTrueHD to DTSHD master audio this comaprison is not available. Even lossless is lossless ,one of its rival will prove its significant power even if they are from the same source as I know DTSHD master audio has a punchier hidden effect.
If every reviewer should be biased to a lossless sound than the other one, he is lying on himself and to the public who is following him,as a result, someone who is over him will ask him to reside and choose another one who is unbiased and revealed only the truth. You are not correct here.If all the reviewers here in this site who give DTSHD master audio astonishing results and they are not true. Then there is something wrong somewhere maybe you know and can tell us more.

If I agree with DobyBlue about superiority of Dolby because of the list he showed against its rival but I have said did not agree with him among these titles.

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by Scorxpion

I know DTSHD master audio has a punchier hidden effect.

And how might that be achieved? Aside from the other DTS fans in this thread, is there a credible source who can explain this phenomenon?

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by Scorxpion

This is not enough to compare both of lossless sound, old movie which has a remastered surround so they should be identical out of measurement. We should compare Underworld rise of lycans DolbyTrueHD to DTSHD master audio this comaprison is not available.

Oh man, it doesn't matter whether it's from 1932 or 2009, if the source is identical then it makes for a valid comparison. It doesn't matter if it's Underworld, Some Like It Hot or Terminator 15, as long as you've got the same source it's a valid comparison, everything else is balderdash.

Even lossless is lossless ,one of its rival will prove its significant power even if they are from the same source as I know DTSHD master audio has a punchier hidden effect.

That is totally wrong, just read what you've written! If it's lossless, then it's identical. Here, which one of these is TrueHD and which one is dts-ma

1) 01100011100
2) 01100011100

Stuck? The answer is that 1) is TrueHD and 2) is dts-ma. Do you know why they look the same? Because they're lossless!!

[Scorxpion]

Originally Posted by BIslander

And how might that be achieved? Aside from the other DTS fans in this thread, is there a credible source who can explain this phenomenon?

Tell me suddenly out of the water the new version of Casino Royale using DolbyTrueHD sounded better than PCM.If this is true the hidden effect is true also.Read the review here what if it was given DTSHD master audio treatement maybe will reach 5 stars.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

But, what I'm trying to say is that I can hear a difference everytime when watching action driven content. I volume match and have DRC turned off. Everytime, a DTS HD MA track will create a much more vivid 3D listening environment than TrueHD. It cannot be a coincidence that it's only the mixes that I prefer since it is always the same thing with each codec. If it was the mixes, I'm certain that every title you listed under TrueHD would have made my ears bleed with joy... not just The Dark Knight.

I really really think there's a placebo effect here, I firmly believe if you weren't aware of the codec you would not think this way.

I think there are many terrific DTS-MA soundtracks. The Day After Tomorrow. Live Free or Die Hard. Bolt. Master & Commander. Mr & Mrs Smith.

But you know what? They all have great sound mixes. I know that they would sound the same encoded in TrueHD, which has features and compatibility I also firmly believe are in the consumer's best interest.

Unfortunately this poll can't reflect the viewing public at large. Most Blu-ray player owners out there go to work, come home, spend time with the family and when they want to watch a BD they rent a movie from Netflix or purchase it from Walmart/Amazon/Best Buy, etc. BD com is only a fraction (64k) of the millions of people out there who have BD capability. They may not even be aware this site exists (so spread the word people).

I'd also wager that if you told a lot of joe-average people that Night Mode won't work anymore they'd be a bit peeved.

[thommycain]

DTS HD is clearly the better choice. The clarity and nuances of subtle sounds are absolutely amazing. That anyone would opt for TrueHD at all is ludicrous. And why do these major companies insist on using 5.1? We have been listening to ex/es 6.1 for a full decade now! Many of us out here are praying for the day these major companies,e.g. Warner, Paramount, & Sony, wake up and do the right thing by us concerning digital audio. 5.1 needs to go the way of VHS, and take TrueHD with it. Why would any one in their right mind master a major motion picture like The Dark Knight in TrueHD? Could you imagine what the home-theater viewing experience would have been like had it been properly done in DTS-HD 7.1?

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by thommycain

DTS HD is clearly the better choice. The clarity and nuances of subtle sounds are absolutely amazing. That anyone would opt for TrueHD at all is ludicrous. And why do these major companies insist on using 5.1? We have been listening to ex/es 6.1 for a full decade now! Many of us out here are praying for the day these major companies,e.g. Warner, Paramount, & Sony, wake up and do the right thing by us concerning digital audio. 5.1 needs to go the way of VHS, and take TrueHD with it. Why would any one in their right mind master a major motion picture like The Dark Knight in TrueHD? Could you imagine what the home-theater viewing experience would have been like had it been properly done in DTS-HD 7.1?

All hands... BRACE FOR IMPACT!!!

I'm with you though buddy.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by thommycain

DTS HD is clearly the better choice. The clarity and nuances of subtle sounds are absolutely amazing. That anyone would opt for TrueHD at all is ludicrous. And why do these major companies insist on using 5.1? We have been listening to ex/es 6.1 for a full decade now! Many of us out here are praying for the day these major companies,e.g. Warner, Paramount, & Sony, wake up and do the right thing by us concerning digital audio. 5.1 needs to go the way of VHS, and take TrueHD with it. Why would any one in their right mind master a major motion picture like The Dark Knight in TrueHD? Could you imagine what the home-theater viewing experience would have been like had it been properly done in DTS-HD 7.1?

Um, because the original masters are 5.1? Did you find any theater playing Dark Knight in 7.1? Nope, not even the IMAX.

You also know that very, very few films are in EX/ES. Those are the few that have actual 6.1 masters. Even then, they are still matrixed in and the PS3 will decode them as 6.1, bitstreamed they are 5.1 and you depend on the receiver to add the surround back channels...which is pretty much how they do those 7.1 remixes, except they are using the original master tracks to divide into the back channels, rather than letting your 7.1 receiver do it. Disney is one of the few to actually make a new mix out of the original elements and pan discrete sounds to the back channels, but even the newer stuff they leave alone.

I'm not a fan of these "fake" 7.1 mixes, and that goes for the new BDs Star Trek films too. Only Star Trek VI was 5.1 and the rest were 70MM 4.1 with the exception of ST:TMP which had a 70MM 4.1 mix but was never released as such, just 35MM Dolby Stereo LtRt.

The same way we get OAR on films we should get the original mixes on BD in lossless. Not some gimmicky remix designed to sell a few more copies.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by Scorxpion

Tell me suddenly out of the water the new version of Casino Royale using DolbyTrueHD sounded better than PCM.

Different source or one track had a higher bit-depth than the other, just like Fifth Element where the TrueHD was 20/48 while the PCM was 16/48.

Originally Posted by thommycain

DTS HD is clearly the better choice. The clarity and nuances of subtle sounds are absolutely amazing. That anyone would opt for TrueHD at all is ludicrous. And why do these major companies insist on using 5.1? We have been listening to ex/es 6.1 for a full decade now! Many of us out here are praying for the day these major companies,e.g. Warner, Paramount, & Sony, wake up and do the right thing by us concerning digital audio. 5.1 needs to go the way of VHS, and take TrueHD with it. Why would any one in their right mind master a major motion picture like The Dark Knight in TrueHD? Could you imagine what the home-theater viewing experience would have been like had it been properly done in DTS-HD 7.1?

You are so misinformed about audio. Give me lossless 5.1 over your lossy es/ex tracks any day of the week. Man, when I have a concert DVD with 5.1 Dolby or dts and 2.0 LPCM I always pick the 2.0 LPCM track. Fidelity is more important that surround.

As for The Dark Knight in dts-hd 7.1 it would have been EXACTLY the same as The Dark Knight in TrueHD 7.1 or PCM 7.1, but there was no 7.1 mix to begin with so the 5.1 mix on the Blu-ray is identical to the one the director wanted.

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Ah but I didn't, I simply grouped those who did not vote for "I want Sony to change to dts-ma".

Allow me to reiterate what was said, because you're clearly trying to use misdirection here.

40% of people did NOT vote for "we want dts-ma" no matter how you slice it, anything else is semantics.

Okay, I see what you are saying now. I understand and agree. I thought you were at first grouping those that are indifferent with those that disagree.

There are some tracks that can be used for baselines as to whether there is a difference in DTS-HDMA and TrueHD, but it would require users to have both hd-dvd and blu-ray:

Bourne Ultimatum
Dawn of the Dead (2004)

Sadly there aren't more, because Universal had most of their movies in DD+, which would not make a fair comparison. So if you do hear differences, the helpful thing would be to give a timestamp for when you notice the change and what change it is you noticed. I would say this is an objective way to see if anyone can hear a difference between the two lossless tracks, and at the same time define what that difference is.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by ganthc

There are some tracks that can be used for baselines as to whether there is a difference in DTS-HDMA and TrueHD, but it would require users to have both hd-dvd and blu-ray:

Bourne Ultimatum
Dawn of the Dead (2004)

Do we know that they're from the same source though? If so they're perfectly valid. Close Encounters on Blu-ray is another one, as is the 2L Divertimenti disc.

[dobyblue]

Well on that note I'm off to the bar.