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View Poll Results: Should SPE Drop Dolby TrueHD and use DTS-HD Master Audio? | |||
Yes, Drop TrueHD for DTS-HD MA |
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899 | 58.76% |
No, I like things the way they are |
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152 | 9.93% |
Wouldn't matter to me either way |
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450 | 29.41% |
Other |
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29 | 1.90% |
Voters: 1530. You may not vote on this poll |
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Thread Tools | Display Modes |
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#681 | |
Power Member
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#682 | |
Blu-ray Samurai
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I've seen warnings on movie packages to upgrade my firmware; I've seen videos in previews about stealing images; I see FBI warnings, Interpol warnings in multiple languages, you name it. All I see about the actual product I purchase is a logo telling me that the audio is lossless. That's it. When the sound does not match the original PCM track, it is not lossless. I could not care less about studio engineers flipping switches, adjusting settings, and then running double blind tests to compare audio tracks; I put a mass market disc into an expensive player, and I don't get the same results. To tell users to "just adjust the volume" without a clearly defined baseline is simply nonsense. As I've noted before, the recording industry set the RIAA curve for LP recordings at least 45 years ago; without a standard, all these logos, confident claims, and the rest just don't impress me at all. If DTS uses the baseline PCM track as a default, and Dolby does not, I'll go with DTS. It's that simple. If Dolby sees the light and stops playing shenanigans with the PCM track, I'll go with Dolby. |
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#683 | ||
Blu-ray Samurai
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The issue being discussed is why this should be necessary. The release is issued as "lossless", with no notification to anyone that if you don't adjust your player, you won't get lossless playback. Quote:
This should not be "insider knowledge" that some select group, such as members of internet boards, share with each other. It shouldn't be necessary to deal with this at all. The funny thing is, looking at the poll results, most people see a difference, and that's not good for Dolby on Blu-Ray. |
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#684 | |
Blu-ray Guru
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It's a bit different from films and their releases and mass-productions from different studios. You can really notice it in the releases too. For example, Iron Maiden's Steve Harris has had a hand in most of their releases. Possibly not in the latest "Flight 666"-release, but I'm not 100% sure. And I noticed that for example about every 'Queen'-DVD was released with DTS. I have no doubt that Brian May or at least someone in or close to Queen is behind that. Personally, I would really care about the end-results of my CDs and video-media. It's the thing that the consumers and fans would play over and over again. So you bet I'd make sure the quality would be stellar. In fact, one day I'll take it much further than that, a revolution in music as it were. Last edited by Damage Inc.; 05-31-2009 at 03:11 PM. |
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#685 | |
Blu-ray Samurai
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Anyway, I'm sure that for $1,500 to $1,800, you can tell the difference between compressed audio and true, lossless audio. It's best to bring this discussion to another area in the forum, it's getting pretty far away from this topic. |
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#686 | |
Super Moderator
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The FM stations always compress what they're broadcasting so one song sounds the same volume as the other. In most cases people's first exposure to a new track or band is over the radio, so the whole volume war is really ridiculous and in the end it only negatively affects us, the consumer. |
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#687 | |
Power Member
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I have to agree with you and I think that's the point that some posting on the thread want to overlook, but the same reason that people from Sony are interested in reading about. Ergonomics are very important in people's minds. From the ease of use and simple design of their products. Your expression and many other's in this thread is as a end user, they find DTSMA an easier implementation. Like it or not about the simplicity of a volume adjustment or turning a mode to OFF, you can't argue that DTSMA is a simpler application for the end user. The end user doesn't care about how much horsepower is necessary to run it. They just know if they have access, they can load the disc and it plays as advertised. You are also right on a company's arrogance. Any company that reaches the prideful mark is always in danger of becoming obsolete, particularily when they don't listen to their market. Think of all the technologies that got burned cause they didn't listen. One needs to go no further than HD DVD to explain that scenario. You make good points! |
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#688 |
Power Member
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#690 | |
Blu-ray Guru
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For the record, I voted that it didn't matter to me either way (I believe I may have mentioned this already). |
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#691 | ||
Active Member
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Maybe you always set the volume for -10 dB or some other value you have determined over time is your "standard" level. No one told you what offset to use--you found it by repeated trials over time, adjusting the volume until it sounded "just right." Once you have determined your personal “standard” volume setting, regardless of whether it is 0dB, -10dB, or some other, if you always use that setting, do you find all movies have the same subjective loudness--not the explosions/peaks, but that the dialog is uniformly loud, at an equally comfortable listening level? And do you find that you never have any movies that you feel need to be played at a slightly different volume? Even though dubbing stages and, to a lesser extent, commercial theaters, are well calibrated, the taste of the sound mixers is not. And sometimes the final mix's overall level will be shifted by the producer--it happens. Many factors affect a movie's final loudness. While there is good uniformity across movies (much better than the music industry!), I do not find that the exact same volume setting is right for every movie--some are too aggressive and need to be backed down, some are quiet and need a little extra. And this is totally separate from other factors like one’s own mood, or other listeners in the room, which can also influence how loud we might play a soundtrack. This is one of the great benefits of being in one’s home theater as opposed to the local Roxy—I can set the volume rather than suffer an onslaught. I'd be interested to hear your experiences on this if you care to share. Dialnorm is a measure of average dialog loudness relative to 0dBFS. It usually measures -27 dB, but as we've seen, sometimes it changes. If you empirically find a volume "standard" for dialnormed movies, just as you did for non-dialnormed movies, you'd also be able to use that setting for all such movies. In that case, you might find that there will be less need to fiddle with the volume from movie to movie, since the gross variations will be reduced. Let me also give an example. Air Force One was mixed in 7.1 SDDS with 5 screen channels. In order to put the movie onto DVD, these 5 had to be downmixed to 3 (L/C/R), and there were two ways to do it: a) Leave the reference levels alone, and apply peak limiting to cap the loud parts. b) pull down all the channels 4 dB to allow extra headroom for the downmix. Sony chose b), and set the dialnorm to 31, thus maintaining the original dialog reference levels. Yes, this is not a typical case, but it just serves to illustrate the mechanism and benefit. Regardless of however consistent movies may be mixed, or whether we could live in a utopian non-dialnormed, THX calibrated world, or for that matter in a world where everything is dialnormed to perfection (a hypothetical—to be sure), or even one where Dynamic Volume works perfectly (also a hypothetical), none of these alternatives results in enjoying the playback of all our movies at exactly the same volume setting for all time. We choose to use the volume control. Add to our home entertainment menu all your favorite music and TV shows, and that just underscores the conclusion. |
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#692 |
Senior Member
Dec 2006
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DTS-MA is the best choice for those who can decode lossless audio, and for those who can't as well. The only problem is that some earlier standalone models can't bitstream OR decode the lossless part.
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#693 | |
Banned
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Still waiting on an explanation why a DTS-MA encoding will sound "better" than a TrueHD encoding. |
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#694 |
Power Member
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Why are you still baiting people with this? You know as well as anyone that there's no sonic difference between the lossless codecs, and therefore no proof can be forthcoming. Many people here have some very logical reasons for their codec preference on either side of the debate, but it's all situational. You can't fight the poll - for better or worse the people have spoken.
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#695 | ||
Blu-ray Count
Jul 2007
Montreal, Canada
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#696 | |
Blu-ray Count
Jul 2007
Montreal, Canada
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#697 |
Blu-ray Samurai
Sep 2008
Bainbridge Island, WA
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Srrndhound - Thank you for a clear and informed explanation of dialnorm.
An Essential DTS decoder in the player means legacy DTS-ES and 96/24 tracks cannot be decoded properly. If all lossless tracks are TrueHD, then the player can have a legacy DTS decoder for DVD playback. This situation argues for staying with TrueHD. However, since players already have Essential decoders, it doesn't have any practical value. These days, if you want both lossless and complete legacy DTS decoding, you need to be quite careful in the selection of a player that can do all DTS decoding or you need to bitstream to an AVR for decoding. Last edited by BIslander; 06-01-2009 at 04:09 AM. |
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#698 | |
Banned
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We have people right now thinking DialNorm impacts the sound quality. People still seem to think that the sound is different between the 2 codecs and I'd bet you more than half of the respondents who chose DTS-MA are those people. |
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#699 |
Power Member
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I agree with everything you have said here; and I didn't mean to offend you with my terminology. I use the term baiting because you are repeatedly asking a question that you clearly already know the answer to, seemingly in hopes that a less well informed reply from a DTS-HDMA fan comes your way. You may find that limiting your posts to direct replies dispelling these myths using evidence is a more effective tactic. Afterall, you have valuable knowledge on your side. As for the other half of the DTS-HDMA fans, we just disagree that True HD is the best solution, and often for valid reasons.
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#700 | |
Blu-ray Knight
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As for DialNorm - yet ANOTHER point you keep bringing up despite many people telling you - isn't even as hard as changing a setting. Adjust the volume to compensate for the difference. Done. Neither one of these are beyond anyone's grasp. If changing a setting is hard for anyone, I wonder what kind of jobs these people are qualified to do in the real world. |
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thread | Forum | Thread Starter | Replies | Last Post |
Dolby TrueHD v. dts-HD Master Audio, Hulk comparison | Audio Theory and Discussion | Tok | 120 | 10-29-2010 07:20 AM |
Sony Switches Dolby TrueHD for DTS-HD Master Audio | Blu-ray Movies - North America | igloo1212 | 92 | 08-19-2009 08:57 AM |
Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio decoding | Home Theater General Discussion | Preeminent | 7 | 07-05-2009 11:06 PM |
DTS-HD Master Audio vs Dolby TrueHD | Audio Theory and Discussion | alphadec | 26 | 05-18-2009 12:51 AM |
Dolby TrueHD vs. DTS-HD Master Audio | Blu-ray Technology and Future Technology | Zinn | 11 | 10-10-2007 04:29 PM |
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