Poll: Should Sony use DTS-HD Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD?

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by ClaytonMG

You cannot seriously treat DRC and DialNorm as if they're the end of the world when simple USER adjustments can be made to "fix" the problem and then act like the lost channels on DTS tracks are nothing. If they haven't done it already, they're probably not going to be able to fix that issue on certain players, making it permanent for you until you spend the money on a new player.

Who, precisely, said that this was the "end of the world"? I purchase Dolby discs, and will continue to do so.

Did this poll tick you off that bad?

Originally Posted by ClaytonMG

If those channels aren't lost, you should know that most of the discrete sounds coming from those channels are then LOCKED in the side channels (at least that's what's happened with the demo's I've tried). Applying PLIIx will NOT result in the same sound you'd get from a working 7.1 track.

I'm glad that we all now know the difference between 7.1 and 5.1.

[Blu-Dog]

OK, it looks as though this is devolving into the name-calling phase, so I'll just leave with these observations:

-Most folks like both formats for lossless, once the twiddling is done
-Ease of use matters to those who chose DTS
-There is a perceived difference in sound quality in favor of, most likely due to Dialnorm
-Neither format is bug-free; but it appears that Dolby's are intentional
-I, and probably others, will happily use Dolby if they due pure encodes of PCM tracks without "special features"
-Most folks realize that the original mix is the problem with marginal sound, but are suspicious of Dolby more than DTS

Thanks to all the civil folks for the intelligent discourse; I've learned quite a bit.

To all the marginally civil, and flat out uncivil folks, remember that opposition in a discussion is not the same as adherence to an evil religion.

Also, never forget, that on the Internet, no one knows you're a dog.

- Blu-dog

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by ganthc

Shooter (DD) and Reign of Fire (LPCM) did not have TrueHD tracks.

And Dark Knight is definitely the mix. It was the same way in theaters. So, at this point, DRC is really just an Iron Man problem, and only a problem for people who left their player settings on Auto. Are there any other discs known to have the flag that turns DRC on when the player is set to Auto? I haven't seen any such reports. But, perhaps others have. Please post, if you know of others.

What if all VC-1 encodes had DNR applied as a default? Sure you could just turn it off with your player, but it would forced on you otherwise. Something tells me that there would be less a forgiving outlook on meddling, if vc-1 had this "feature" while avc didn't have it at all.

Agreed, that would get people going. But, of course, it's not the same situation. If VC-1 encodes had DNR metadata that could be engaged by the user, I doubt anyone would object. That's the parallel situation here. DRC instructions are in the metadata and only come into play when invoked by the user (except for that one bad Iron Man example).

[davcole]

Originally Posted by CraigW

Don't the Denons remember the DRC setting? A few discs might be set to default to ON, but with the Onkyos TrueHD sends it to AUTO and then most discs are set to use the LOW setting.

Again this is more of a hardware implementation issue. It is up to the AVR makers to properly implement DRC setting to remember the user preference.

I know my Onkyo always defaults to AUTO even after i've turned it off for TRUEHD.

[plm999]

Originally Posted by JimSD

It wouldn't affect me now, but for those with older receivers they will benefit from the higher bitrate DTS core. So I voted Yes.

I'm one of the (many millions of) guys with one of those older receivers, and I absolutely do benefit from the higher bit rate core. so thanks for voting YES!

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by davcole

I know my Onkyo always defaults to AUTO even after i've turned it off for TRUEHD.

That's a bug. Have you checked with Onkyo about a firmware fix?

[davcole]

Originally Posted by BIslander

That's a bug. Have you checked with Onkyo about a firmware fix?

Good point, I do need to email them about that as it's still under warranty. I'll also have to see if they plan to upgrade an ES mode to the DTSMA extension.

[ClaytonMG]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

Who, precisely, said that this was the "end of the world"? I purchase Dolby discs, and will continue to do so.

Did this poll tick you off that bad?

The poll doesn't tick me off, as I've said before I understand why some want DTS-HD MA. But what ticks me off is the misinformation you're spreading and completely ignoring logic or facts. And yes, you do treat DialNorm and DRC as if they're the end of the world. You also keep ignoring the people that explain to you why these things exist, why they're good to have, and how users can avoid problems with them.

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

I'm glad that we all now know the difference between 7.1 and 5.1.

Well it doesn't seem like you're understanding the situation (or just trying to downplay a flaw with certain DTS-HD MA tracks) if you think that PLIIx will fix the DTS tracks that are downmixed from 7.1 to 5.1.

[dobyblue]

Well said Clayton, but be prepared for more verbose pointless analogies in response.

[BIslander]

Shhh..

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

OK, it looks as though this is devolving into the name-calling phase, so I'll just leave with these observations:

Stinks, doesn't it (when folks get personal)?

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by plm999

I'm one of the (many millions of) guys with one of those older receivers, and I absolutely do benefit from the higher bit rate core. so thanks for voting YES!

They also benefit from the DD companion track @640kbps.

[D]

Here's a novel approach. What if Dolby and dts address the valid concerns and issues that have been voiced, and fix what needs to be fixed? The studios put the extra content on a second disc, instead of a digital copy. Have both encodes, because there would be more space without the extra content. And not alienate anyone. If cost is a factor? Then do a standard edition without the 2nd disc, for those who don't care about the extra content. And a deluxe edition with the extra disc? Maybe I'm way off base here, but maybe not.

[Damage Inc.]

Originally Posted by db01

Here's a novel approach. What if Dolby and dts address the valid concerns and issues that have been voiced, and fix what needs to be fixed? The studios put the extra content on a second disc, instead of a digital copy. Have both encodes, because there would be more space without the extra content. And not alienate anyone. If cost is a factor? Then do a standard edition without the 2nd disc, for those who don't care about the extra content. And a deluxe edition with the extra disc? Maybe I'm way off base here, but maybe not.

Yeah, they should lose the Digital Copies to start with.
More complaints about them than the positive things.

I'm not sure if there would enough space if you'd do that,
as some releases already have a second disc for bonus-material.
Then again, the first disc might also have extra content which could also be moved.
Actually, there should be enough space left, but I'm just not 100% sure.

[saprano]

Heres a movie somebody can compare if they feel like

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movie...72&show=review

It has both DTS-MA and DolbyTrueHD.

Martin did say this

For the purpose of the review, the film was screened in its entirety with the DTS track selected, and comparisons between several scenes with each lossless track yielded no perceptible differences.

Doesn't matter to me, i still want DTS-MA.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

OK, it looks as though this is devolving into the name-calling phase, so I'll just leave with these observations:

-Most folks like both formats for lossless, once the twiddling is done
-Ease of use matters to those who chose DTS
-There is a perceived difference in sound quality in favor of, most likely due to Dialnorm
-Neither format is bug-free; but it appears that Dolby's are intentional
-I, and probably others, will happily use Dolby if they due pure encodes of PCM tracks without "special features"
-Most folks realize that the original mix is the problem with marginal sound, but are suspicious of Dolby more than DTS

Thanks to all the civil folks for the intelligent discourse; I've learned quite a bit.

To all the marginally civil, and flat out uncivil folks, remember that opposition in a discussion is not the same as adherence to an evil religion.

Also, never forget, that on the Internet, no one knows you're a dog.

- Blu-dog

And most don't realize that a dog barely has the intelligence of a two-year old toddler. And don't take the poor victim to the nth degree. I seem to remember you were pretty harsh in my fair assessment that dts has issues also with their solution. And you instigated it by talking down to me like I did not know how to hook up speakers and other flippant remarks. you poor poor ignorant dog

Again you act like this 'twidling' takes endless hours to accomplish. And you are right people don't know who you really are on the internet. It is why in these cases I highly suspect a viral marketing campaign when some are so vocal against one option and so forgiving of another.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by davcole

I know my Onkyo always defaults to AUTO even after i've turned it off for TRUEHD.

In my experience, the first time the TrueHD track is acquired on the main feature, DRC is set to AUTO. I just hit the DRC button on the remote to turn it OFF and it stays for the duration of the feature. I have never seen it cycle back to AUTO after pausing, rewinding, etc. It is a nuisance, but it is AVR issue and I blame Onkyo for this, not Dolby.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by db01

Here's a novel approach. What if Dolby and dts address the valid concerns and issues that have been voiced, and fix what needs to be fixed? The studios put the extra content on a second disc, instead of a digital copy. Have both encodes, because there would be more space without the extra content. And not alienate anyone. If cost is a factor? Then do a standard edition without the 2nd disc, for those who don't care about the extra content. And a deluxe edition with the extra disc? Maybe I'm way off base here, but maybe not.

If it was not for Blu-ray, dts would no longer be relevant in the consumer market. There only hope is to become the main lossless audio codec on blu otherwise there is no longer need for AVR and players to include its decoding engine. As I said earlier, dts is basically dead on DVD, it will never be used in the broadcast medium and at the theatrical level with digital cinema making larger inroads, PCM is becoming standard.

Dolby is not in dire straits like dts is. Dolby has a long track record of innovation and they are heavily investing in other entertainment technologies outside of audio.

Let's see what has Dolby done (from wikipedia):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Labs

And dts:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTS_(sound_system)

Hmmm... pretty short list for dts. Looks to me like Dolby has a lot more on their plate than being a codec for packaged media and outdated theatrical tech. Dolby has a proven track record of delivering working product on time. It is why many industries including broadcast have chosen to use Dolby solutions as the standard.

[D]

I'm done here. Talk about being stuck between the elephant and the mule!

[trans22]

To all the so called informed people who say lossless is lossless and that truehd and dts sound the same is say rubbish, the reason? i have a copy of the australian version of THE INCREDIBLE HULK which has a TRUEHD track and although it is by no means a bad track compared to the DTS track on the UK disc it is fairly mute, there is around a 6db difference in volume and the TRUEHD track has nowhere near the power or dynamic range of the DTS track, before all you dolby defenders start coming out with excuses i did not have DRC activated and they are both 5.1 mixes and considering it's a very recent movie i'm pretty sure they came from the same master, so why is the DTS mix so much better?