Poll: Should Sony use DTS-HD Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD?

[LembasBread]

Originally Posted by child of the sun

I do not have a 7.1 set up I have always had 5.1. But ever since DVD I have always prefered DTS. I obviously voted for DTS. lol. However I must say that IF Dolby could produce better Audio Masters I would prefer that (after reading here about rear duplication, etc.).

Can I get a re-vote? lol

Dolby has nothing to do with the mastering stage of soundtracks. They are a content delivery company. It seems that much of the results of the poll is weighted by anti-Dolby bias from DTS marketing campaigns carried over from the days of DVD and not because DTS-HD MA provides a considerably easier and sonically superior delivery method on the consumer end.

Note that much of the perception that DTS on DVD is better than Dolby is the same perception that is deceiving many non-audiophiles during the BD era: volume. Many, many, many, many people automatically equate louder with being superior.

Much of the reason why DTS is rare on DVD is because content providers don't see the benefit of adding another lossy 5.1 encode on the same, limited space disc. They realized that 754kbps DTS is perceived to be not quantitatively superior to 448kbps Dolby Digital when encoded from the same master. 1.5Mbps DTS on the other hand is, but those are even more rare on DVD. I could probably count the number of feature films on DVD that featured full bitrate DTS on my fingers.

But that is DVD, this is BD. Where both lossless delivery methods have their quirks in the encode/decode processes. But when those quirks are ironed out, they both deliver the same thing which is most important: a packed PCM audio stream.

Let's not get caught up in blind fanboyism this generation. In the future, I believe we'll be seeing the return of uncompressed PCM because storage media will only increase in bandwith and capacity and the need to compress audio and even video will no longer be completely necessary to deliver content. We've already seen this in the cinema with DLP projection.

Well that's my dream anyway.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by cembros

i dont get why the lossy bitrate matters to you,i personally want the lowest bitrate used on the lossy track, that way more disc space is available for the video. All im worried about is the true hd track.

with DTS MA it is not an issue, but with DTHD and DD I agree, if someone listens to DD then they don't care so why should I.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by BIslander

TrueHD should include a 640kbps companion track to maximize quality over S/PDIF connections. I can't think of a good reason to use 448 instead. Space certainly can't be a consideration on Blu. Likewise, the DTS core should be 1509, not 768 or 754. Studios usually use the maximum legacy bitrates, but not always.

1) like you mentioned capacity (why waste it? just because there is a lot, it can be used for other stuff)
2) bandwidth. yes I know we are basically talking roughly 200kbps more, but it can be used for video also 448 is just a bit less of 2/3 of 640, for every two you do this way you can add a third.
3) cost. you are a studio, you just made a 448kbps track for the DVD, why create a 640 for the BD when you already added DTHD for the people who care enough to get devices that handle lossless.

[movie_mike2]

The 1 thing i like about Dts master audio ove dolby digital true hd is even the blue ray movies that are in a 5.1 on dts master audio still play in 7.1 dolby digital true hd only does 5.1 maybe because i'm using an analog connection is the reason i dont get 7.1 out dolby digital true hd can someone tell me they get through an hdmi connection

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by movie_mike2

The 1 thing i like about Dts master audio ove dolby digital true hd is even the blue ray movies that are in a 5.1 on dts master audio still play in 7.1 dolby digital true hd only does 5.1 maybe because i'm using an analog connection is the reason i dont get 7.1 out dolby digital true hd can someone tell me they get through an hdmi connection

That's rear channel duplication, which only happens with DTS and only with certain players.

[Strannix136]

Originally Posted by rwojtalewicz

+1

I have to agree that's the way it is. It's pretty much the same with all pseudosciences. For instance, there are people who claim to have seen UFOs. After weeding out the crackpots and hoaxers, that leaves the honest folks who really saw something they can't explain. Like the Phoenix, Az triangles which I didn't see although I was there when they occurred. Hundreds of people saw them and even photographed them. They indeed saw something which they couldn't explain. They were given an explanation by the Air Force out of Luke AF Base. Yet, still people claim they were extraterrestrial craft. LOL.

Didn't mean to stray off topic. But on topic, that's the sort of thing we have here in this discussion with the dts:HD vs TrueHD with people claiming that one is better than the other. You're right the burden of proof lies with those making the claims. Carl Sagan's notable quotable: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

You are the most intelligent person on these forums. I take my hat off to you, with all humility. Very well put. I just roll my eyes while trying to digest all of the "wisdom" put forth by these know-it-alls around here. Honestly, well put.

[blufreak]

I think Sony should do whatever they want just keep HD Audio!!!!!!

[Penton-Man]

I believe today marks the day that the option "Yes, Drop TrueHD for DTS-HD MA " fell below the 60% mark.

Still monitoring this thread.

[cembros]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I believe today marks the day that the option "Yes, Drop TrueHD for DTS-HD MA " fell below the 60% mark.

Still monitoring this thread.

it seems the masses are coming around

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I believe today marks the day that the option "Yes, Drop TrueHD for DTS-HD MA " fell below the 60% mark.

Still monitoring this thread.

How does Sony view the option "Doesn't mind either way"? Is that considered to be a vote against DTS-HDMA or for it considering the switch would not bother those customers?

[cembros]

Originally Posted by ganthc

How does Sony view the option "Doesn't mind either way"? Is that considered to be a vote against DTS-HDMA or for it considering the switch would not bother those customers?

to me that suggests if it aint broke dont fix it

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by ganthc

How does Sony view the option "Doesn't mind either way"? Is that considered to be a vote against DTS-HDMA or for it considering the switch would not bother those customers?

I don't see how one could logically interpret that as a vote for or against either codec. My guess is that it is basically a filter question with the focus being on the other 3 responses, plus the comments.

[saprano]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I believe today marks the day that the option "Yes, Drop TrueHD for DTS-HD MA " fell below the 60% mark.

Still monitoring this thread.

OMG just switch to DTS already. the only people thats going to complain are the dolby supporters. i dont want to name any names.

Its clear that alot of people want DTS, so drop dolby please.


(By the way i said all that with the utmost respect )

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by cembros

to me that suggests if it aint broke dont fix it

No, that would be the option "No, I like things the way they are." The option "Doesn't matter either way" seems to indicate that if Sony sticks with TrueHD, they would be fine with it, and if they switch to DTS-HDMA, they would be fine with it. The key is what does Sony think about almost 29% of the vote not caring? Is that seen as a positive for switching or read more as an indifference that should mean they stick with TrueHD? It's a fair question.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by saprano

OMG just switch to DTS already. the only people thats going to complain are the dolby supporters. i dont want to name any names.

Its clear that alot of people want DTS, so drop dolby please.

They are also monitoring why they should switch, and so far nobody has made a compelling, educated argument to switch other than some fanatics on a message board want to.

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

They are also monitoring why they should switch, and so far nobody has made a compelling, educated argument to switch other than some fanatics on a message board want to.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I have a serious request for any of our industrious members here or one of the moderators….

I am interested in an online poll on Blu-ray.com that inquires as to whether or not the members feel that SPE should start using DTSHDMA and drop Dolby True HD. We are just checking public interest, nothing decided, nothing eminent. It would just be good to know if many, anyone ? would get bent out of shape because they have an early player that does not support DTS lossless.

I would appreciate if someone could run the survey when they get a chance (posting a link to it here on my thread to save me time in not searching for it) and hopefully there will be some statistically significant participation from our members here. This is one of those rare opportunities in which your direct input could influence the policy of the home video division of a major Hollywood studio.

Thanks

Seems to me that the intent of the poll was to see if people were going to get pissed if Sony made the switch to DTS-HDMA, specifically those with a first-gen player that didn't have the ability to decode the codec. I don't see in here that they are necessarily looking at having the members of this forum provide unassailable proof or a defense of why they hold the opinion that they do.

[saprano]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

They are also monitoring why they should switch, and so far nobody has made a compelling, educated argument to switch other than some fanatics on a message board want to.

I hope you were just trying to be stupid. how many times was the DTS 1.5 megabit core brought up as one of the reasons to switch to DTS-MA?

Infact you agreed to that being a good reason!

[Hep]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

They are also monitoring why they should switch, and so far nobody has made a compelling, educated argument to switch other than some fanatics on a message board want to.

Excuse me, but I believe that wanting the core DTS track for those without lossless is a compelling, educated argument.

What makes you think that they care about the why? Money isn't about the why; if adding a jar of peanut butter with every PS3 would sell more PS3s, you bet Sony would go there.

[Ryu77]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

1) like you mentioned capacity (why waste it? just because there is a lot, it can be used for other stuff)

So you would rather fill the disc with extras as opposed to improving the quality of the movie?

Originally Posted by Anthony P

2) bandwidth. yes I know we are basically talking roughly 200kbps more, but it can be used for video also 448 is just a bit less of 2/3 of 640, for every two you do this way you can add a third.

Huh? For every two you can add a third what? That statement is very confusing. Are you saying it makes more sense to sacrifice a third of the legacy audio bitrate to add another 200Kbs to the 35,000Kbs video track???

Originally Posted by Anthony P

3) cost. you are a studio, you just made a 448kbps track for the DVD, why create a 640 for the BD when you already added DTHD for the people who care enough to get devices that handle lossless.

It takes my PC no more than 10 minutes to re-encode a multi channel legacy audio track from a lossless source. Cost would be minimal.

[davcole]

Originally Posted by saprano

I hope you were just trying to be stupid. how many times was the DTS 1.5 megabit core brought up as one of the reasons to switch to DTS-MA?

Infact you agreed to that being a good reason!

I don't think Peter views the core or any aspect of DTSMA intelligent. Of course he hasn't presented the strongest argument for why TRUEHD should be kept.

With the studios increasingly moving towards DTSMA, TRUEHD needs to come up with a compelling aspect quick. I don't think the story of DTS bribing each studio is going to work any longer.

It's getting scary out there for Dolby:

Universal
Disney
Fox/Mgm
Criterion
Eagle Vision
Lionsgate
Universal Music
Image
CBS Video

all exclusive or moving towards DTSMA, it's time Dolby get it's "----" together or they could get left behind

That doesn't even included Sony considering a switch and Warner experimenting with DTSMA on the upcoming WATCHMEN title.

I bet you that Dolby wishes that TRUEHD was built upon their lossy codec.