Poll: Should Sony use DTS-HD Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD?

[neo_reloaded]

Originally Posted by saprano

For people who didn't see this from the last page.

And peter didn't you get the memo


https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=9832

If Sony switches to DTS-HD MA, it will be because of the belief that customers (for whatever illogical, dumb reasons) prefer it over TrueHD. Them switching is not evidence that DTS supporters are "correct" or that DTS is "better." I think if it was a matter of "better," Sony employs many sound engineers that would be capable of determining that for themselves.

I would have much preferred if this thread was set up as a logical debate where burden of proof was placed upon statements, but it is not even close to that - it's merely a showcase of the majority subjective opinion. Sony switching would just be catering to the silly wishes of people who don't care to understand the technology - not that I would blame Sony, as their goal is to sell, and switching to DTS is no skin off their back. But I personally find it very disheartening that there is such passion for one format or another when they are both mathematically equal. Reminds me a lot of the following strip, in terms of the general inanity of it all:

http://pbfcomics.com/?cid=PBF020-Skub.gif

[cembros]

Originally Posted by Scorxpion

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movie...50&show=review

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDRe...ng_blu-ray.htm

From Blu-ray.com "One of the most aggressive and deafening soundtracks available, Knowing features plenty of hefty bass and loud yet crystal-clear sound effects."

"Knowing features a soundtrack to be experienced rather than heard. A track to be reckoned with now and into the future, Knowing represents one of, if not the, top soundtracks currently available on Blu-ray."

From DVDbeaver.com:

"Bass response in some of the more destructive-laden scenes is window-rattling. I actually found it a shade overly aggressive a it tended to advance beyond the normal range of dialogue volumes. Explosions sounded as if they were tearing my speakers apart. The infrequent music as well in Knowing, like Beethoven's Symphony No. 7, was so clean and crisp it generates a warm encompassing mood distant from the film. This audio mix is quite exceptional - one of the most advanced that I've heard in a long while."

Do you think this or is Possible if it was done in Dolby True HD are we going to feel like that.I don't think so

hey i can play that game to, oh and i dont think it is possible for a true hd track, i know it is


Cloverfield devastates Blu-ray with a Dolby TrueHD 5.1 lossless track. Yet again, lossless audio proves to be the only way to go, and like the track found on Rambo, this one could be considered the best on the market, a sound mix many other movies of this sort could and should aspire to, and is certainly exemplary demonstration material. One thing this track does well is to mix the feeling of a camcorder-quality sound with a top-flight action movie extravaganza soundtrack. Sometimes, we'll hear some brief audio dropouts and other minor anomalies attributable to the quality of the microphone on the camera. Sometimes, the person behind the camera sounds muffled when he speaks due to the placement of the microphone, but those in front of the camera are generally heard clearly. Most dialogue reproduction in the film is fine, proving to be well-defined and easy to hear. The audience is treated to deep, foreboding bass as the movie begins, teasing audiences with just a small sample of what's to come. The surround channels are used to wonderful effect at the party early in the movie, truly creating an immersive atmosphere that, along with the handheld camera visual style, places us in the middle of the festivities. Surround channels are active with the beats of the party's music; every channel plays a part and they work together to create a pleasing mood that sets the pace for the rest of the movie.

When the action picks up, the soundtrack becomes one of, if not the, finest around. All of a sudden, a rumble interrupts the party, and soon thereafter, a tremendous, booming explosion devastates the city, your eardrums, and the foundation of your house. In fact, many of the film's explosions prove interesting to listen to. Even though the sound far surpasses what would be captured by the camera's microphone, the audio takes its cues from the video, cutting out when the picture does. Some explosions and other random sounds of destruction cut in and out momentarily, adding an eeriness to the movie that definitely helped elevate its effectiveness. The track also features solid presence in the rear channels during the film's hectic final hour. From the minor, such as when a helicopter pilot is instructing people to keep moving across the Brooklyn Bridge, to the major, as heard when the monster shrieks or when rockets and jet fighters scream from the rear to the front (and from side to side), the feeling of chaos, confusion, disorganization, violence, horror, and even wonderment is more than palpable; you'll swear its real. The collapse of the bridge is so astounding from a sonic perspective that it's one of those moments that is beyond words -- just have a listen (and for goodness sakes crank it up!). The entire soundtrack is awe-inspiring, remarkable stuff. Kudos to Paramount -- what a fantastic way to truly kick off their return to Blu-ray.

[cembros]

on more time

Kung Fu Panda slices and dices sound systems with an amazing Dolby TrueHD 5.1 lossless soundtrack. This is a rich and fulfilling experience that always finds just the right balance. It is never too loud, too forced, or too underwhelming. Everything works together in perfect harmony to create a fine mix. The sound flows naturally and evenly across the front, with the perfectly-rendered dialogue remaining entrenched in the center, although the track features some excellent panning and directionality of dialogue in several instances that never sounds forced or out of place. Bass is well represented. Deep and powerful, but never overextending its welcome, it is simply natural and precise. Surround speakers are used to excellent effect; there is a deluge of information thrown back there, but all of it is integrated wonderfully into the film, never becoming a distraction but nevertheless creating an immersive, fulfilling experience. From the most subtle atmospherics to awesome directional effects, from the score to sound that sweeps across the back, the surround channels are put to excellent use through virtually the entire picture. Tai Lung's escape sequence in chapter 10 is a sonic delight, extremely active yet clear and clean as a whistle, the entire soundstage coming alive as the Snow Leopard escapes, the prison crumbling and exploding all around, the action incredibly robust and the sound field full and powerful yet elegant and delightful. Kung Fu Panda offers a reference-grade sonic experience from the Dolby TrueHD codec.

[cembros]

here we go again

This time presented in Dolby TrueHD 5.1 lossless surround sound (the first National Treasure on Blu-ray contains a PCM track), National Treasure 2: Book of Secrets proves itself to be reference-quality listening material. A top-notch soundtrack will always make the viewer feel immersed in the action. Whether in a crowded Civil War-era tavern, a contemporary five-star restaurant, or at the President's birthday party (where Randy Travis has never sounded so good as he does in TrueHD), there is always ambience in the rear channels, livening up the track and making us feel like we’re in the movie. An adventure movie at its core, dialogue remains the primary tool the characters use to decipher each clue, and the disc reproduces said dialogue with crystal-clear perfection, as if we should have expected anything else. The movie’s pleasing soundtrack is never obtrusive, but perfect in its blending even when loud; it plays in the rear channels as well as the front, resulting in a fine, high quality score. There are plenty of "wow" moments to be heard throughout. A fire alarm plays in the surround speakers at Buckingham Palace loudly and clearly (and annoyingly), just another addition to the fine soundtrack heard here. The car chase scene is elevated several notches by the high quality sound, every squeal of the tires and rev of the engine is placed in just the right speakers. When the car runs over an uneven surface, the bumps are so distinctly heard and felt that we imagine what it feels like to be in the car, being jolted up and down, bracing ourselves so as not to hit our heads on the roof. There is wonderful minor ambience, such as the sound of slowly dripping water in an underground passageway at Mount Vernon. The entire last half hour of the film is a case study in how to make dynamic, extraordinary action movie soundtrack. All I can say about it is to simply listen to it and be prepared to be amazed. I found this mix to definitely match the best I've heard, no surprise coming from a brand-new Disney movie. Well done!

[Monkey]

Cembros, are you pulling from Cinema Squids site? This thread could get really really really long if we post all the reviews

but as Saprano pointed out the decision has been made

Originally Posted by Cinema Squid

That sounds like an interesting experiment - wait a sec, I know someone who has a database of Blu-ray reviews with scores so this should only take a few minutes!

Below is a list of the average audio scores grouped by primary audio codec for USA Blu-rays where audio scores from the original reviews are mapped directly onto a 100-point scale (for 5-star systems each half-star is 10 points).

Primary Codec      Avg. Audio Score  # Titles  # Reviews
-------------      ----------------  --------  ---------
LPCM               80.71               249       2,388
DTS-HD MA          79.88               419       4,414
TrueHD             77.75               366       3,762
*OVERALL*          76.75             1,344      12,156 
DTS-HD HR          71.90                31         158
DTS                70.36                37         192
AC-3               65.32               232       1,242

Total # Titles:            1,334 
Total # Reviews:          12,156 
Total # Review Sites:         38
Total # Reviewers:           214
Avg. # Reviews Per Title:   9.11 
Avg. Audio Score:          76.75

Interestingly enough, these numbers sort out the audio codecs exactly how many in this thread would rank them. All of the lossless codecs place higher than the overall average audio score, while all of the lossy codecs place lower with a significant gap between lossless and lossy.

[saprano]

Originally Posted by neo_reloaded

If Sony switches to DTS-HD MA, it will be because of the belief that customers (for whatever illogical, dumb reasons) prefer it over TrueHD. Them switching is not evidence that DTS supporters are "correct" or that DTS is "better." I think if it was a matter of "better," Sony employs many sound engineers that would be capable of determining that for themselves.

I would have much preferred if this thread was set up as a logical debate where burden of proof was placed upon statements, but it is not even close to that - it's merely a showcase of the majority subjective opinion. Sony switching would just be catering to the silly wishes of people who don't care to understand the technology - not that I would blame Sony, as their goal is to sell, and switching to DTS is no skin off their back. But I personally find it very disheartening that there is such passion for one format or another when they are both mathematically equal. Reminds me a lot of the following strip, in terms of the general inanity of it all:

http://pbfcomics.com/?cid=PBF020-Skub.gif

Dont tell me i dont understand the technology. i know how it works, i know both are the same....PCM. that doesn't change the fact that i would rather sony use DTS. you guys need to give it up already, WTF man.

[saprano]

Originally Posted by Monkey

Cembros, are you pulling from Cinema Squids site? This thread could get really really really long if we post all the reviews

but as Saprano pointed out the decision has been made

All those reviews are from this site. it would be nice if he provided links.

Yep it has been made. deal with it.

[cembros]

Originally Posted by saprano

All those reviews are from this site. it would be nice if he provided links.

Yep it has been made. deal with it.

you dont know what the decision was

[ClaytonMG]

Originally Posted by cembros

you dont know what the decision was

Well I think it's clear that Sony is going with DTS if they're judging just from the poll.

However, as I and a few others stated a long time ago, THIS IS A BUSINESS DECISION. It doesn't automatically prove that DTS has some sort of magical quality over Dolby TrueHD.

[Y3k Bug]

Originally Posted by neo_reloaded

I would have much preferred if this thread was set up as a logical debate where burden of proof was placed upon statements, but it is not even close to that - it's merely a showcase of the majority subjective opinion. Sony switching would just be catering to the silly wishes of people who don't care to understand the technology - not that I would blame Sony, as their goal is to sell, and switching to DTS is no skin off their back. But I personally find it very disheartening that there is such passion for one format or another when they are both mathematically equal. Reminds me a lot of the following strip, in terms of the general inanity of it all:

http://pbfcomics.com/?cid=PBF020-Skub.gif

This thread wasn't set up as a logical debate because it wasn't trying to "prove" anything. It was simply set up so Sony could make sure they weren't going to tick off a majority of their viewer base by switching sound formats. When I set up the poll it was my assumption (yeah yeah I know about assuming ) that there was a business reason for the possible switch, like more favorable licensing, quicker work-path or something along those lines. I don't get the impression that it was due to them liking HD MA's sound more than True HD, or thinking that "fans" would like it more.

[ClaytonMG]

Originally Posted by Y3k Bug

This thread wasn't set up as a logical debate because it wasn't trying to "prove" anything. It was simply set up so Sony could make sure they weren't going to tick off a majority of their viewer base by switching sound formats. When I set up the poll it was my assumption (yeah yeah I know about assuming ) that there was a business reason for the possible switch, like more favorable licensing, quicker work-path or something along those lines. I don't get the impression that it was due to them liking HD MA's sound more than True HD, or thinking that "fans" would like it more.

Right, and that makes sense. However, now there are those in this thread that seem to think that DTS-HD MA is supperior to Dolby TrueHD. I mean there's been some pretty odd claims in here like Dolby TrueHD is analog while DTS-HD MA is digital, or that DTS-HD MA is better than PCM... So posts like that have turned it into a debate.

[saprano]

Originally Posted by cembros

you dont know what the decision was

Heh.

The DTS-HD Master Audio vs. Dolby TrueHD poll proved useful and you all will be seeing the results of that in titles coming later this Fall.

It obvious. if there was no change, what results would we be seeing this fall

[ClaytonMG]

Originally Posted by saprano

Heh.

It obvious. if there was no change, what results would we be seeing this fall

Well I suppose they could've made a decission to use both audio codecs...

[saprano]

That would be fine by me.

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by saprano

Heh.

It obvious. if there was no change, what results would we be seeing this fall

Hey, Sony could go sneaky and choose the codec that got curb stomped in the poll. Paramount was bribed to go HD DVD at one point.. Anything can happen, I'm just not placing my money on it.

[ClaytonMG]

Originally Posted by saprano

That would be fine by me.

As long as it doesn't hurt anything else (features or video quality) I don't think it'd be too terrible of a thing.

[neo_reloaded]

The whole thing is childish. When someone discusses real evidence that the two are identical, you get the "Pfft we don't care, we just personally like it better" response. Yet in other posts, there is the clear message that these people think DTS-HD MA really sounds better. If they TRULY believed they were the same, TRULY believed the science, they would have no reason to continue to argue that DTS-HD MA is better. Yet they do. What does that say?

Looking at the reviews, the average scores between LPCM, TrueHD, and DTS-HD MA only differ from each other by around 3 points! Given the wide breadth of movies out there, plus people's varying equipment and subjective tastes in sound, I'd say those are pretty damn identical results.

I don't care if Sony switches to DTS. I know they're both the same, so the actual codec on the disc means nothing to me. I am just disheartened by this ridiculous thread, and the complete breakdown of logic, reason, and good manners.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by saprano

That would be fine by me.

NOOOOO! That would be a waste of dataspace and BW. When given a choice, use ONE of the lossless delivery streams over PCM. Never use a combination of the choices.

[saprano]

Originally Posted by CraigW

NOOOOO! That would be a waste of dataspace and BW. When given a choice, use ONE of the lossless delivery streams over PCM. Never use a combination of the choices.

Yeah i know. but if they could do it without affecting video quality i wouldn't have a problem with them using both dolby and dts.

Spiderman3 had PCM and dolbyTrueHD, so did superbad. but the special features were on a second disc. so it is possible.

[ganthc]

It's unnecessary. I voted for DTS-HDMA, but if Sony stuck with TrueHD, I would not be angry. But I see no point in having multiple same language lossless tracks. They have been done before, and there was no appreciable difference between them.