Poll: Should Sony use DTS-HD Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD?

[deado]

I doubt that even a quarter of Blu-ray customers even know the tech specs of the audio tracks on the discs they buy - you forget that everyone on this forum is in the minority

[BozQ]

Originally Posted by ClaytonMG

He meant as far as sales since DTS doesn't really help sales. (I am sure it does help sales, just probably about as much as Dolby does.)

Does Dolby ever help sales?
Except for TrueHD but that's about it.

Originally Posted by davcole

I'm not sure I by the fact that DTSMA improves sales. While some have a preference for DTSMA and feels it has a sonic advantage, I don't see anyone passing over a wanted film just cause it's coded in TRUEHD.

No, I think the studios reasoning is for improves sonics or supposedly superior codec.

Oh please. The studios can hardly care about the deep technical specifics of anything themselves, lack alone Blu-ray. They don't give a toss whether the director wants to shoot with film or digital cameras. As long as it's within budget. They just give the producers the money, tells them to make a good film and return the money back in the form of box office tickets, and yes, DVDs and BDs. They represent money more than anything else.

And all it takes is three letters to get themselves a small 1% or so increase in BD sales: DTS.

Yes, I understand and totally agree with you guys that content is king. Up will sell well on BD not because it's in DTS (although Pixar will highly release it in DTS themselves). Transformers ROTF will sell well and it will be in TrueHD (unless Dreamworks/Paramount change their mind). Sure, if Warner -re-releasing Speed Racer with DTS-HD now, it won't break The Dark Knight's record. But you see, the people who double-dip on the Speed Racer DTS-HD BD are the kind of "extra cash" that I'm talking about. If it goes well with their financial balancing, why not do it? And the same question will go to Sony, why not?

If indeed future Warner releases are in DTS-HD, then Warner has finally wised up, even though most if not all of their soundtracks are in 16-bit/48KHz when the norm for big budget Hollywood films on BD are in 24-bit/48KHz.

Originally Posted by deado

I doubt that even a quarter of Blu-ray customers even know the tech specs of the audio tracks on the discs they buy - you forget that everyone on this forum is in the minority

And it is *us* that the studios have to appeal to, because that's where all the first sales comes!
Everyone else in the majority will benefit from it anyway.

[ganthc]

I don't necessarily buy that if LOTR came out in TrueHD that one would sell less than the if it came out in DTS-HDMA. Nor would I imagine that Speed Racer redone with TrueHD wouldn't draw just as much double dip dollars as if it was redone with DTS-HDMA.

[ClaytonMG]

Originally Posted by BozQ

Does Dolby ever help sales?
Except for TrueHD but that's about it.

Oh please. The studios can hardly care about the deep technical specifics of anything themselves, lack alone Blu-ray. They don't give a toss whether the director wants to shoot with film or digital cameras. As long as it's within budget. They just give the producers the money, tells them to make a good film and return the money back in the form of box office tickets, and yes, DVDs and BDs. They represent money more than anything else.

And all it takes is three letters to get themselves a small 1% or so increase in BD sales: DTS.

Yes, I understand and totally agree with you guys that content is king. Up will sell well on BD not because it's in DTS (although Pixar will highly release it in DTS themselves). Transformers ROTF will sell well and it will be in TrueHD (unless Dreamworks/Paramount change their mind). Sure, if Warner -re-releasing Speed Racer with DTS-HD now, it won't break The Dark Knight's record. But you see, the people who double-dip on the Speed Racer DTS-HD BD are the kind of "extra cash" that I'm talking about. If it goes well with their financial balancing, why not do it? And the same question will go to Sony, why not?

If indeed future Warner releases are in DTS-HD, then Warner has finally wised up, even though most if not all of their soundtracks are in 16-bit/48KHz when the norm for big budget Hollywood films on BD are in 24-bit/48KHz.


And it is *us* that the studios have to appeal to, because that's where all the first sales comes!
Everyone else in the majority will benefit from it anyway.

If people double dipped on Speed Racer, it'd be due to the fact that there wasn't a lossless track to begin with. It would have nothing to do with it being a DTS track.

Again, there is about as much proof of DTS titles selling better as there is that Dolby titles sell better. You will get some people that will purchase a title because it's in DTS, just like you'll get some people who will purchase a title because it's Dolby. Believe it or not, there are some people that have a preference for Dolby. What about the people that can't decode DTS-HD MA but can decode Dolby TrueHD? Don't you think they'd reach for a Dolby TrueHD title before a DTS-HD MA one?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by BozQ

If indeed future Warner releases are in DTS-HD, then Warner has finally wised up, even though most if not all of their soundtracks are in 16-bit/48KHz when the norm for big budget Hollywood films on BD are in 24-bit/48KHz......

We’ll (SPHE) try 20-bit/48KHz for the original when space allows.

[saprano]

District 9 in DTS-MA penton?

[Bobby Henderson]

I don't know how much Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD do to help Blu-ray sales, but the two formats must have at least some positive effect otherwise most studios would just go the "generic" route and use LPCM 5.1 instead. Most Blu-ray releases leave behind a significant amount of unused disc space, often more than enough to hold a primary LPCM 5.1 or 7.1 English track.

Dolby and DTS have recognizable brand names. I think it's kind of funny how the logos for the lossy digital sound on film formats (DTS, SDDS, Dolby Digital) are still used on the end credits of feature films but then nothing is ever mentioned about D-cinema theaters playing the shows with a superior LPCM 5.1 audio track. There's just no fancy logo for Linear PCM.

Then the movie ends up on Blu-ray with either Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio. Sometimes LPCM 5.1 is still used. By that time the lossy format listings on the end credits just seem very odd.

Oh well, I can't recall ever seen "70mm projection in selected theaters" on an end credit run either.

Originally Posted by Saprano

District 9 in DTS-MA penton?

District 9 hasn't even hit commercial theaters yet. It's way too early to tell what will be on the Blu-ray. Given it's a Sony release, my thinking is they'll use Dolby TrueHD unless the studio does indeed switch to encoding audio in DTS-HD.

[ClaytonMG]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

I don't know how much Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD do to help Blu-ray sales, but the two formats must have at least some positive effect otherwise most studios would just go the "generic" route and use LPCM 5.1 instead. Most Blu-ray releases leave behind a significant amount of unused disc space, often more than enough to hold a primary LPCM 5.1 or 7.1 English track.

Dolby and DTS have recognizable brand names. I think it's kind of funny how the logos for the lossy digital sound on film formats (DTS, SDDS, Dolby Digital) are still used on the end credits of feature films but then nothing is ever mentioned about D-cinema theaters playing the shows with a superior LPCM 5.1 audio track. There's just no fancy logo for Linear PCM.

Then the movie ends up on Blu-ray with either Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio. Sometimes LPCM 5.1 is still used. By that time the lossy format listings on the end credits just seem very odd.

Oh well, I can't recall ever seen "70mm projection in selected theaters" on an end credit run either.



District 9 hasn't even hit commercial theaters yet. It's way too early to tell what will be on the Blu-ray. Given it's a Sony release, my thinking is they'll use Dolby TrueHD unless the studio does indeed switch to encoding audio in DTS-HD.

I was thinking maybe bandwidth was more of an issue with PCM. Plus I've read seemless branching is harder to do with PCM than Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD MA...

But I do find the audio logos at the end of movies odd. Dolby even had Dolby Digital Cinema for DLP theaters. It seems logical to at least put that logo on the end of a film if not the DLP logo.

[Mr. Cinema]

This is still being discussed? Sheesh.

[saprano]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

District 9 hasn't even hit commercial theaters yet. It's way too early to tell what will be on the Blu-ray. Given it's a Sony release, my thinking is they'll use Dolby TrueHD unless the studio does indeed switch to encoding audio in DTS-HD.

Exactly. i know it hasn't hit threaters yet. but penton said you will see the results of the poll in titles in the fall. im sure D9 is coming after the fall so i wanted to see if i could get an answer out of him about which will it use, dts-ma or dolby truehd

[trans22]

I'm very confused, GODZILLA 98 will have a PCM soundtrack, are SONY going back to PCM now?

[davcole]

Originally Posted by trans22

I'm very confused, GODZILLA 98 will have a PCM soundtrack, are SONY going back to PCM now?

I've a feeling this was a disc done long time ago and just wasn't re-encoded.

[trans22]

Originally Posted by davcole

I've a feeling this was a disc done long time ago and just wasn't re-encoded.

yes this title has been delayed so many times

[BozQ]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

Dolby and DTS have recognizable brand names. I think it's kind of funny how the logos for the lossy digital sound on film formats (DTS, SDDS, Dolby Digital) are still used on the end credits of feature films but then nothing is ever mentioned about D-cinema theaters playing the shows with a superior LPCM 5.1 audio track. There's just no fancy logo for Linear PCM.

Then the movie ends up on Blu-ray with either Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio. Sometimes LPCM 5.1 is still used. By that time the lossy format listings on the end credits just seem very odd.

First of all, there is no logo used because LPCM is not associated with any company. It is just that raw uncompressed audio. Just like raw uncompressed video. Zero compression method is used and the filesize is bit-for-bit accountable.

Secondly, as for why Dolby Digital, DTS and SDDS logo is right at the end of the credits while playing PCM 5.1 is because...this print is meant for cinemas. Not BD. Usually when studios release it to home video, they'd try to keep everything as intact as possible. That, or they can't be half assed to do anything more than it's already done. :P

Originally Posted by ClaytonMG

I was thinking maybe bandwidth was more of an issue with PCM. Plus I've read seemless branching is harder to do with PCM than Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD MA...

But I do find the audio logos at the end of movies odd. Dolby even had Dolby Digital Cinema for DLP theaters. It seems logical to at least put that logo on the end of a film if not the DLP logo.

I think I do see the DLP logo before in some films. The Star Wars prequels if I'm not mistaken.

Still, it doesn't really matter to me.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

We’ll (SPHE) try 20-bit/48KHz for the original when space allows.

Penton, thanks for your response here.
I have a few questions for you.

What is the projected sampling rate and bit depth for most Hollywood movies? When I mean "projected" I mean, the initial settings set by the audio engineers and mixers when they were mixing all the audio during post production, like in Pro Tools or Cubase, Nuendo, whatever.

There must be a projected rate for this before the even begin to drag the first audio file in there.

Second question: If there is no norm or if it juggles between 16-bit and 24-bit, who exactly makes the decision? The director? The producer? The executive producers/studios? The engineer or the sound supervisor?

Third question: If it's final print for cinemas is in 16-bit/48KHz, then why choose to increase the bit-depth to 20-bit when there is almost no improvement made to the audio. (Other than marketing reasons of course)

Thanks

[ClaytonMG]

Originally Posted by BozQ

First of all, there is no logo used because LPCM is not associated with any company. It is just that raw uncompressed audio. Just like raw uncompressed video. Zero compression method is used and the filesize is bit-for-bit accountable.

Secondly, as for why Dolby Digital, DTS and SDDS logo is right at the end of the credits while playing PCM 5.1 is because...this print is meant for cinemas. Not BD. Usually when studios release it to home video, they'd try to keep everything as intact as possible. That, or they can't be half assed to do anything more than it's already done. :P

I think I do see the DLP logo before in some films. The Star Wars prequels if I'm not mistaken.

We were commenting on how Cinemas don't nessisarily even use those sound formats. A lot of DLP theatres use Dolby Digital Cinema or PCM. I actually haven't been to a DTS, Dolby Digital or SDDS theatre for years.

As for the DLP logo before films, do you mean a trailer? There are 2 DLP trailers and the theatre might play one of them, but it's not required. It's also not for a specific film like Star Wars or anything like that, it's just if the theatre is equipped with a DLP projector or not... Same with the Dolby Digital Cinema trailer (or any sound trailer for that matter).

[BozQ]

Originally Posted by ClaytonMG

We were commenting on how Cinemas don't nessisarily even use those sound formats. A lot of DLP theatres use Dolby Digital Cinema or PCM. I actually haven't been to a DTS, Dolby Digital or SDDS theatre for years.

As for the DLP logo before films, do you mean a trailer? There are 2 DLP trailers and the theatre might play one of them, but it's not required. It's also not for a specific film like Star Wars or anything like that, it's just if the theatre is equipped with a DLP projector or not... Same with the Dolby Digital Cinema trailer (or any sound trailer for that matter).

I think he was mentioning something at the end of the credits, where there usually be Dolby, DTS and SDDS logos. And why it's still there even on BD.
I could be mistaken.

As for DLP, forget what I said. Please. :P

[trans22]

This poll has been a waste of time by the look of things, NIGHT OF THE CREEPS has been announced on october 20th by SONY with DOLBY TRUEHD.

[neo_reloaded]

Originally Posted by trans22

This poll has been a waste of time by the look of things, NIGHT OF THE CREEPS has been announced on october 20th by SONY with DOLBY TRUEHD.

These things take time. Discs are authored months in advance, and planning extends back further. Any results caused by this poll won't be visible for at least a few more months, possibly longer.

[ClaytonMG]

Originally Posted by trans22

This poll has been a waste of time by the look of things, NIGHT OF THE CREEPS has been announced on october 20th by SONY with DOLBY TRUEHD.

Even if they don't switch, it certainly has shown how many misinformed people are out there...

[neo_reloaded]

Originally Posted by ClaytonMG

Even if they don't switch, it certainly has shown how many misinformed people are out there...

Amen to that