Any reason not to get 4K?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Auditor55

You have to be kidding me!! Please produce that Independent professional lab testing that have proven Dr. Soneira wrong. Also, please produce their resume that would qualify them to attack his analysis.

His findings are consistent with the overwhelming expert view on this subject. He's not some lone quack on this subject, Please!! His resume speaks for its self. The only people that would try to attack him are some subjectivist home theater enthusiast, that reject true, correct, scientific and factual evidence.

See the links toward the bottom of this post –
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ic#post9902392

which relate the results (presented at more than one international conference by spokespersons for the EBU ( https://ch.linkedin.com/pub/hans-hoffmann-phd/5/a68/75b ) , Eurovision, etc.) presenting the materials, methods and results of the independent professional lab testing as well as my included link to the easier-to-read consumer testing by HDTVtest which prove wrong the assertion by Dr. Soneira, as quoted by you, that “a regular human isn't going to see a difference."

I kind of find that sort of hyperbole amusing coming from a physicist who, unlike most video engineers, actually realizes that humans commonly can resolve better than one arc minute (30 cycles/degree)… http://www.wired.com/2010/06/iphone-4-retina-2/ which, by the way, is the basis of the graph you posted by Carlton Bale and which you also accept and continuously promote as gospel.

Real world advice…. don’t blindly follow personalities based on professional credentials or past reputation believing therefore that whatever spouts out of their mouths is guaranteed to be accurate

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Auditor55

Dylan34, I don't mean to rude or condescending at all.

This is becoming tiresome as I now remember you as an irritant on another forum back in-the-day where owners of a particular display in an Owners Thread were just trying to enjoy themselves and you (as a non-owner to boot) entered the thread specifically to cause trouble.

[spectre08]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

This is becoming tiresome as I now remember you as an irritant on another forum back in-the-day where owners of a particular display in an Owners Thread were just trying to enjoy themselves and you (as a non-owner to boot) entered the thread specifically to cause trouble.

it's his schtick, and it's getting really old

[Auditor55]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

See the links toward the bottom of this post –
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ic#post9902392

which relate the results (presented at more than one international conference by spokespersons for the EBU ( https://ch.linkedin.com/pub/hans-hoffmann-phd/5/a68/75b ) , Eurovision, etc.) presenting the materials, methods and results of the independent professional lab testing as well as my included link to the easier-to-read consumer testing by HDTVtest which prove wrong the assertion by Dr. Soneira, as quoted by you, that “a regular human isn't going to see a difference."

I kind of find that sort of hyperbole amusing coming from a physicist who, unlike most video engineers, actually realizes that humans commonly can resolve better than one arc minute (30 cycles/degree)… http://www.wired.com/2010/06/iphone-4-retina-2/ which, by the way, is the basis of the graph you posted by Carlton Bale and which you also accept and continuously promote as gospel.

Real world advice…. don’t blindly follow personalities based on professional credentials or past reputation believing therefore that whatever spouts out of their mouths is guaranteed to be accurate

Sir, you attacked one of the most scholarly, preeminent, learned, respected, credible experts on this subject to which we are debating in this thread. In view of your links, they failed to offer any facts, scientific, data that disproves Dr. Raymond Soneira and the prevailing expert view on the subject of 4K, seating distance, screen size, visual acuity etc., how that plays a factor in determining whether or not 4K resolution is discernible, which goes to the issue of whether or not an end user should invest in a 4K set.

Isn’t that what the original poster wanted to know? Why not provide him/her with enough information to make a sound purchase decision? I thought forums like this and others (i.e. AVS Forum) was for the more informed consumer, above and beyond Joe Six Pack consumer who walks into a nearby Best Buy and see very bright (usually in the torch mode),un calibrated, oversaturated, LED display with 4K blazoned all over it and thinks its best looking thing he’s ever seen. I thought enthusiast forums such as this one is where people come so that they may be more informed.



The information I provided in my post was from multiple sources, not just from Carlton Bale and Dr. Raymond Soneira. I did that because I know experts sometimes have different opinions and views, some share the same view give or take a few differences. However in this case, you be hard pressed to find a credible expert that would differ with the likes of Dr. Soneira on this subject.

Let me say again, please don’t take what I’m saying personally, I don’t mean to be condescending. If I seem condescending, I do apologize. I’m not trying to prevent anyone from enjoying their display, to the contrary. I don’t see how I could do that unless I was standing right in front of your TV while you were trying to watch something. Please enjoy your display, but know that I’m your resident skeptic around here.

[Auditor55]

Originally Posted by spectre08

it's his schtick, and it's getting really old

No, your personal attacks are getting old.

Let me remind you what the original poster asked.

Any reason not to get 4K?

I have thoroughly addressed that question, pro and con. You have yet to do so.

[Count Orlok]

I wouldn't mind owning a 4K or even 8K setup some time down the road, but for now, I'm still very happy with my Panasonic plasma. I love its picture quality, especially the black levels. I just had it calibrated last month. It's sad to see plasma go.

Anyway, at the pace HT technology is going now, something you can buy today could be outdated in less than a year or so. I wouldn't adopt 4K/8K until there's universal standards for it, if that makes any sense. I hope they keep 3D an option on the sets. I've spent too much money buying 3D titles just to have them abandon the format later on.

I'd love to have a projector with that resolution one day, but I'm glad it won't be for a few years.

[DGilberts]

Originally Posted by Count Orlok

I wouldn't mind owning a 4K or even 8K setup some time down the road, but for now, I'm still very happy with my Panasonic plasma. I love its picture quality, especially the black levels. I just had it calibrated last month. It's sad to see plasma go.

Anyway, at the pace HT technology is going now, something you can buy today could be outdated in less than a year or so. I wouldn't adopt 4K/8K until there's universal standards for it, if that makes any sense. I hope they keep 3D an option on the sets. I've spent too much money buying 3D titles just to have them abandon the format later on.

I'd love to have a projector with that resolution one day, but I'm glad it won't be for a few years.

Second that Sir. A properly set up 1080p picture on a capable TV is superb. I to have just had my plasma calibrated and wow. The difference really is incredible and i'm actually enjoying 3D for the first time.

If i could set up a projector and a screen, i defiantly would go for 4K. But i cannot see the advantages on a TV, unless we all sat 4 foot away?

[steve1971]

Read every post in this topic and man did it go to hell in a hand basket! The poster asked a question and it turned out to be a war of words with some people. You guys need to calm down and drink some coffey or some beers! All kidding aside I think what the original poster should do is go out and look at the tv's himself and decide whats best for him. He thinks 4K is better? Great. He likes 1080p better? Great. His money and his choice and what looks good to his eyes. I have my personal opinion on the whole 4K thing and thats that if you dont veiw it on 65inch's and up then its a waste.....but thats my own personal opinion and what my eyes tell me. If anyone else can see the difference on any tv smaller then they must have better eyesite then myself and congrats to them. I have said it once and I will say it for the millonth time and that is 4K is not for me and dont impress me, not one bit. But hey two each is own as they say.

[kopkiwi]

I'll give my 2 cents seeing as everyone else has.

I had a Panasonic 65ST50. Fantastic TV, but getting a little long in the tooth.

I had a Sony VPL HW50ES projector. Stunning image, 110". Bright and solid blacks. But I got sick of sitting with the lights off and the curtains closed all day.

I sold both and put the funds towards a new TV. Ended up with the Sony 65X930C (originally had the massive 79X900B but the backlight issues killed it).

The picture is amazing. Even on upscaled 1080p the difference is quite stunning. It just looks crisper, cleaner and ever so slightly more detailed. The blacks are every bit as good as my old Panny. Make sure you get local dimming backlight, or better yet FALD.

The prices of 4k TVs are such that why wouldn't you buy one now? Make sure it's HDR compatible and of course HDCP 2.2/HDMI 2.0

I was in the boat that 4k wasn't worth the purchase at this time and it was a waste of money. However after owning the set for only a week, I don't regret the purchase one bit.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by kopkiwi

I sold both and put the funds towards a new TV. Ended up with the Sony 65X930C (originally had the massive 79X900B but the backlight issues killed it).

The picture is amazing. Even on upscaled 1080p the difference is quite stunning. It just looks crisper, cleaner and ever so slightly more detailed. The blacks are every bit as good as my old Panny. Make sure you get local dimming backlight, or better yet FALD.

The prices of 4k TVs are such that why wouldn't you buy one now? Make sure it's HDR compatible and of course HDCP 2.2/HDMI 2.0

What are you trying to do upset all the 4k naysayers with something factual?

[steve1971]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

What are you trying to do upset all the 4k naysayers with something factual?

I'm a 4K naysayer and I aint upset at all. kopkiwi likes his new 4K set and thats great.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by steve1971

I'm a 4K naysayer and I aint upset at all. kopkiwi likes his new 4K set and thats great.

4K isn't really here yet. I have a set, it's marvelous. I also have two 1080p sets, and one that's 1080i (two actually, not using the second one yet), also great.


When there is 4K content, with the expanded color space, I'll have a leg to stand on with going 4K. At the moment, there is no real pressure to move to it, especially with the best picture still on my Kuro. Hands down.

[kopkiwi]

Originally Posted by steve1971

I'm a 4K naysayer and I aint upset at all. kopkiwi likes his new 4K set and thats great.

I'll be honest, it was harder to find a set that wasn't 4k, than it was to justify getting one that is.

No the content isn't here, but the job is does of up-scaling non 4k content is fantastic.

[JohnAV]

Here's a recent interview you guys might find interesting.

[steve1971]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Here's a recent interview you guys might find interesting.

By reading this article it looks like there will be no 4K 3D right? That's going to piss off Cameron and Jackson. That being said I dont know really what to make of that article but it looks like the early adopters of 4K may be left out in the cold. I could be wrong.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by steve1971

By reading this article it looks like there will be no 4K 3D right? That's going to piss off Cameron and Jackson. That being said I dont know really what to make of that article but it looks like the early adopters of 4K may be left out in the cold. I could be wrong.

Thats been a known fact all along. 3D is a no longer the industry darling, which is now 4k UDTV's. This is why there are no 3D UDTV models announced at CES 2015, and why there are less and less 3D Blu-rays released this year.

Majority of 4k UDTV displays support 3D 1080P BTW.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Auditor55

Sir, you attacked one of the most scholarly, preeminent, learned, respected, credible experts on this subject to which we are debating in this thread....

Wrong (see post #35 on the last page). I disagreed with his assertion quoted by you that ''When it comes to televisions touting new 4K technology, "a regular human isn't going to see a difference," said Raymond Soneira, head of display-testing firm DisplayMate."

Again, the scientific test I took the time to extensively describe in the link(s) in the other posts proves his assertion ^ to be incorrect as well as this easier to read consumer-type experiment…..http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/4k-re...1312153517.htm

As to my comment of him being prone to hyperbole, for one thing, I was referring to his past accusation that Steve Jobs claiming the “Retina Display” (iPhone 4) was a misleading or false marketing term…..which I believed he was incorrect at the time, as did a fellow doctorate….http://www.kybervision.com/Blog/file...naDisplay.html

P.S.
You seem prone to hyperbole with your accusations too.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by kopkiwi

I'll give my 2 cents seeing as everyone else has.

I had a Panasonic 65ST50. Fantastic TV, but getting a little long in the tooth.

I had a Sony VPL HW50ES projector. Stunning image, 110". Bright and solid blacks. But I got sick of sitting with the lights off and the curtains closed all day.

I sold both and put the funds towards a new TV. Ended up with the Sony 65X930C (originally had the massive 79X900B but the backlight issues killed it).

The picture is amazing. Even on upscaled 1080p the difference is quite stunning. It just looks crisper, cleaner and ever so slightly more detailed. The blacks are every bit as good as my old Panny. Make sure you get local dimming backlight, or better yet FALD.

The prices of 4k TVs are such that why wouldn't you buy one now? Make sure it's HDR compatible and of course HDCP 2.2/HDMI 2.0

I was in the boat that 4k wasn't worth the purchase at this time and it was a waste of money. However after owning the set for only a week, I don't regret the purchase one bit.

Good 2 cents from a fellow OWNER.

[JohnAV]

Cheap enough you think? Didn't say it was great, its the price point as a example.

Westinghouse WD65NC4190

[Iain-]

Originally Posted by detective392

May be getting a new TV soon. Something around 50inches. Is there any reason not to get 4K? What content can I get in 4K? Is it just Netflix so far?

I would wait for release of new sets that feature compliance of the recently released 4K specification. Those new sets will probably render the current non-compliant 4K sets obsolete.