HDR is crayons

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Patsfan123

It's frustrating because many of these BI reports came from people who said they were using the TV normally.. Then you'd find out they would keep CNN on for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week as background noise while they did other things. Then all the sudden OLEDs are junk and no one should buy it.

To be fair, that IS normal usage for a lot of people. Both my parents and my in-laws leave the news on all day, and football on all day Sunday. It's totally normal for them.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by Nothing371

OLEDs are great. They are fantastic televisions. It's when OLED buyers start talking "hands down best television" or "the best viewing experience, period" that I start to take issue.

Fair enough. Probably overdid it. Its just that you have to deflect the attacks too. Tough spot to be in. I hear ya though.

Mine is the best for ME and what I expect out of a TV.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

I love that this has transitioned into a credible (if scattershot) hardware thread.

Best thing for it, we could only repeat our particular stances on SDR vs HDR so many times. Although now we're repeating ourselves when it comes to what we prefer in hardware and why it's so much effing better, so...

I always liked this slide from Lars Borg's presentation on SMPTE 2094 (the four-way sprint for dynamic metadata supremacy), it's oversimplified but it neatly encapsulates what I keep going about re: LCD doing better HDR in brighter areas and OLED doing better HDR in darker areas. We can argue 'til the cows come home about which is better or more preferable, but that's entirely a taste thing at this point in time (I've even been contacted by another member who's gone and bought a ZD9 so's they can compare it directly to their 2018 OLED!). As I said upthread, people can scoff at the amount of discs with range that exceeds 1000 nits but how many grades truly take advantage of the range between 0.1 and 0.001 nits either?



As long as we're getting decent enough - or indeed, "perfect" - blacks with speculars that can retain at least 1000 nits of detail AND it maintains the APL at the correct (or near enough) level then I'm happy to talk with anyone on a level playing field. But if a TV is killing the APL as part of its tone mapping or is diluting the blacks or is clipping the highlights, then Houston we have a problem and that's why I can be such a dismissive asshat about what people are seeing on their TV. There are so many variables that might be affecting so many aspects of the HDR imagery.

[Noremac Mij]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

To be fair, that IS normal usage for a lot of people. Both my parents and my in-laws leave the news on all day, and football on all day Sunday. It's totally normal for them.

I’ve done exactly that for months. Not the slightest trace of image retention on my C8. I have the backlight set to 100. It’s an absolute non issue. This is a fear and a lie started by LCD owners who can’t afford OLED TVs and somehow have to justify that LCD is superior. They do the same in regards to ABL, even though 2018 TVs are flawless. Psychology.

[Sky_Captain]

The Autumn Asshat Collection is really jam packed this year.

[Geoff D]

so very, very true

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

people can scoff at the amount of discs with range that exceeds 1000 nits but how many grades truly take advantage of the range between 0.1 and 0.001 nits either?

Thats graphic's scale misrepresents the amount of difference between OLED highlights and LCD/LED highlights (same for shadows.). Logarithmic scale is the one that's used to represent how things look to the eyes (and ears (dBs) etc)

A 1000 nit panel has maximum highlights only ~0.5 f/stops brighter than an OLED panel
A 1500 nit panel has maximum highlights only ~1 f/stop brighter than an OLED panel
A 2000 nit panel has maximum highlights only ~1.5 f/stops brighter than an OLED panel

Oled +2.8, LCD + 3.3-4.3 but at the expense of shadows as if you increase the backlight they go up too.

paneldeathmatch.jpg

Tones under 500 nits (which is + 2.3 f/stops above 100) should be then same brightness till the deep shadows

Now those who have man caves could answer how dark nits look compared to LCD nits


*scoff *scoff



All in good nature of course. I want everybody to enjoy their movies the best

[wxman2003]

We are still very far away from a perfect tv.

[LoSouL]

Originally Posted by wxman2003

We are still very far away from a perfect tv.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by wxman2003

We are still very far away from a perfect tv.

No question there. But, at the same time we are pretty spoiled and doing quite wel at the higher end of the spectrum. The top OLEDs and the best LCDs are very good performers.

I still prefer OLED though and it continues to win PQ shootouts like everywhere.

[Geoff D]

As I said Deci, it's an oversimplified graph but it's nicely succinct with it. Don't blame me, blame SMPTE! And I love how having more stops don't matter much unless they do matter much.

[Colson]

Geoff, what would be your selection if you were going to buy a TV today? Would it still be the ZD9/Z9D?

[fighthefutureofhd]

Originally Posted by Noremac Mij

I’ve done exactly that for months. Not the slightest trace of image retention on my C8. I have the backlight set to 100. It’s an absolute non issue. This is a fear and a lie started by LCD owners who can’t afford OLED TVs and somehow have to justify that LCD is superior. They do the same in regards to ABL, even though 2018 TVs are flawless. Psychology.

Well, I wouldn't mind you telling that to my television. It's got a big "band" or "rand" on my screen that I can sometimes see when watching movies. It shows up very well on skin tones. It's obvious that something is there. It's my fault, but the point is it's there.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Colson

Geoff, what would be your selection if you were going to buy a TV today? Would it still be the ZD9/Z9D?

I'm not Geoff but the reasons I went LCD for UHD in 2016 have largely been rectified in the OLED sphere, and if I were to upgrade tomorrow I'd get an LG or Sony OLED. I hope to do so within the next 2ish years.

[ROSS.T.G.]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I'm not Geoff but the reasons I went LCD for UHD in 2016 have largely been rectified in the OLED sphere, and if I were to upgrade tomorrow I'd get an LG or Sony OLED. I hope to do so within the next 2ish years.

I fully endorse this decision.

[Fat Phil]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I'm not Geoff but the reasons I went LCD for UHD in 2016 have largely been rectified in the OLED sphere, and if I were to upgrade tomorrow I'd get an LG or Sony OLED. I hope to do so within the next 2ish years.

I'm leaning that way as well. I'll definitely be giving OLED serious consideration when I upgrade. I wasn't convinced by the 2016 models (certainly at the prices they were asking when a good, mid-range LCD could be bought for far less) but enough progress seems to have been made to make me sit up and pay attention.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Fat Phil

I'm leaning that way as well. I'll definitely be giving OLED serious consideration when I upgrade. I wasn't convinced by the 2016 models (certainly at the prices they were asking when a good, mid-range LCD could be bought for far less) but enough progress seems to have been made to make me sit up and pay attention.

Yeah, my goal in 2016 was to see UHD in all its glory ASAP and (in my opinion) 2016 OLEDs weren't there. The 2018 models have fixed those issues though, and also have improved on the near-black issues from what I have read. There's still a few little things LCD does better, but I think OLED is the obvious best choice for UHD viewing in a dark room at this point.

I think I'm aiming for a 2019 model in a black Friday sale, but we'll see. Lots of house stuff that needs done and a wife to please.

[Fat Phil]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I think I'm aiming for a 2019 model in a black Friday sale, but we'll see. Lots of house stuff that needs done and a wife to please.

Happy wife, happy life.

I can envisage the alternative - A brand spanking new OLED at the Velvet household, surrounded by buckets catching the rain water that's dripping through cracks in the ceiling

[Colson]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Yeah, my goal in 2016 was to see UHD in all its glory ASAP and (in my opinion) 2016 OLEDs weren't there. The 2018 models have fixed those issues though, and also have improved on the near-black issues from what I have read. There's still a few little things LCD does better, but I think OLED is the obvious best choice for UHD viewing in a dark room at this point.

I think I'm aiming for a 2019 model in a black Friday sale, but we'll see. Lots of house stuff that needs done and a wife to please.

I tend to agree. I just like hearing other perspectives as well Thanks everyone!

[fighthefutureofhd]

Originally Posted by Fat Phil

Happy wife, happy life.

I can envisage the alternative - A brand spanking new OLED at the Velvet household, surrounded by buckets catching the rain water that's dripping through cracks in the ceiling

That's why I always says: No wifey, have a lifey. Though that hasn't really been the case.

But at least I get to spend my money as I please or make stupid decisions and pay for it later.