HDR Discussion Thread

[i_max2k2]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

Agreed. This fact has been well established by virtually everyone. The exception being when DV gives you elevated blacks. Then HDR10 is the preferred version.

I don't know, the two titles I have seen so far, Spiderman Homecoming and West World, I feel with HDR10 vs Dolby Vision, in DV the screens don't blow out as much, its more contained, lighting tones are better, which makes PQ look as good as it can get on my screen. If its an opinion then it can't be a fact, differences between 2 different pictures is subjective, hence can't be a fact. For me DV doesn't give elevated blacks, that's a fact btw.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by TheSweetieMan

>Ralph Potts' own words: "I don't have a TV optimized for viewing Dolby Vision."

HeatEquation still says the HDR10 and DV grade are identical.

>Any user that owns an OLED and provides their thoughts on HDR10/DV

HeatEquation says it doesn't count, because OLEDs don't have the peak brightness to accurately display HDR10 content.

You're a borderline troll, dude. You honestly should be banned. Especially since a moderator already told you to stop comparing these formats in threads like this one, and to take it to this thread: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=276605

The king of cherry picked stats and quotes.

[TOO_FUTURE]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

Another case of the HDR10 and DV being 100% identical. Although for those who experience elevated blacks in DV, I'm sure the HDR10 will be the superior version.

I'll check tonight but I highly doubt DV and HDR are identical. What other DV discs have you tried? There is 100% a clear difference between them

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by TOO_FUTURE

I'll check tonight but I highly doubt DV and HDR are identical. What other DV discs have you tried? There is 100% a clear difference between them

He's never seen Dolby Vision.

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by TOO_FUTURE

I'll check tonight but I highly doubt DV and HDR are identical. What other DV discs have you tried? There is 100% a clear difference between them

Only one, on a friend's display. Fate of the Furious. Wasn't impressed by it in comparison to the HDR10 on my TV.

[Penton-Man]

More the merrier, but I think it’s in poor taste to use this tone –

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

DV continues to get absolutely smashed.

because I’ll remind you that Dolby were thee original developers of the PQ EOTF, as folks on Blu-ray.com were alerted to back in Sept. 2014 - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ar#post9754213 long before any other audio video forums were talking about it….much less realized its future significance/consequences.

Social skills Heat….social skills.

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

because I’ll remind you that Dolby were thee original developers of the PQ EOTF

Which makes it even more baffling that they've dropped the ball with what's supposed to be a premium format over HDR10.

Dolby has tight control over everything related to DV, and the format is supposed to optimize image quality specifically for each display, yet both the LG OLEDs and Vizio's have encountered numerous issues with the format across both streaming and physical media.

At least we've got alternatives now.

[i_max2k2]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

Which makes it even more baffling that they've dropped the ball with what's supposed to be a premium format over HDR10.

Dolby has tight control over everything related to DV, and the format is supposed to optimize image quality specifically for each display, yet both the LG OLEDs and Vizio's have encountered numerous issues with the format across both streaming and physical media.

At least we've got alternatives now.

Sorry I haven't read most of the thread, but how have they dropped the ball?

[the_sextein]

The Cabin in the Woods and Westworld are the only two titles I own with DV. I honestly hope DV makes a noticeable difference because the better things get, the better they get for us all. I can't view DV until my firmware gets updated so I can't contribute to the conversation. What I meant when I said that DV and HDR10 was identical on those two titles was based off of reviews from Blu-ray, AVS, and High def digest.

I noticed that HDD rolled DV and HDR10 into one topic when they discussed the benefits of HDR for Westworld and they didn't bother to state if one looked better than the other. Ralph thinks the difference is insignificant and a matter of opinion. It seems to me that DV will only benefit some titles and like HDR in general it will be a matter of opinion as to how beneficial it is. Maybe in time when it is supported more broadly the studios will put more effort into it and make more of a positive impression on critics and fans alike. If my Z9D could play DV I would be using it regardless of it's performance unless it made a film look worse. Unfortunately, Sony has been waiting for something. Either they have problems with DV or HDR+ is what they are hoping to adapt to. For now I am content to enjoy Westworld in HDR10 knowing that it looks about as good as it possibly can on my setup. In the future I will play it in DV when I am capable and hope that the improvement is to my liking.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by the_sextein

The Cabin in the Woods and Westworld are the only two titles I own with DV. I honestly hope DV makes a noticeable difference because the better things get, the better they get for us all. I can't view DV until my firmware gets updated so I can't contribute to the conversation. What I meant when I said that DV and HDR10 was identical on those two titles was based off of reviews from Blu-ray, AVS, and High def digest.

I noticed that HDD rolled DV and HDR10 into one topic when they discussed the benefits of HDR for Westworld and they didn't bother to state if one looked better than the other. Ralph thinks the difference is insignificant and a matter of opinion. It seems to me that DV will only benefit some titles and like HDR in general it will be a matter of opinion as to how beneficial it is. Maybe in time when it is supported more broadly the studios will put more effort into it and make more of a positive impression on critics and fans alike. If my Z9D could play DV I would be using it regardless of it's performance unless it made a film look worse. Unfortunately, Sony has been waiting for something. Either they have problems with DV or HDR+ is what they are hoping to adapt to. For now I am content to enjoy Westworld in HDR10 knowing that it looks about as good as it possibly can on my setup. In the future I will play it in DV when I am capable and hope that the improvement is to my liking.

One benefit of DV regardless is that the encode is 12 bit rather than 10 bit with HDR10. The lack of banding with HDR is a tremendous value. I believe that the Z9D is capable of true 12 bit processing unlike a lot of consumer displays out right now that are either 10 bit or 8 bit dithered.

[TOO_FUTURE]

Let's leave the Dolby Vision impressions to people with the DV capable sets please to test and judge lol, seen too many negatives about DV posted here from people who haven't even seen it before. Although the difference isn't night and day, Dolby Vision offers more nuances and detail in the color from what I've seen personally on my own DV set. Also it offers better detail in dimmer scenes offering more shadow detail

[the_sextein]

Yeah it's 12 bit and it can push 1800 nits from what I have seen. I have been looking forward to DV for a while now. It's disappointing to see multiple respected critics say that the difference is negligible on the two titles I currently own but it is still in it's infancy so we will just have to wait and see. I am very picky and have no interest in other DV titles on the market at this time but as time goes on that will change and I hope my panel will be pushed to it's true potential sometime next year.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by mzupeman

Really? I've seen it before, although not quite this bad. It took some elbow grease to get the smudges off this time.

I bought it today. At Target. Completely new and sealed.

I think sometimes these production lines have people manually placing discs inside. That's when you tend to see it. But to have the disc actually placed in the case with the data side facing up? I've never seen that before.

Yes, but the people who manually insert disks are supposed to be wearing white gloves.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by the_sextein

Yeah it's 12 bit and it can push 1800 nits from what I have seen. I have been looking forward to DV for a while now. It's disappointing to see multiple respected critics say that the difference is negligible on the two titles I currently own but it is still in it's infancy so we will just have to wait and see. I am very picky and have no interest in other DV titles on the market at this time but as time goes on that will change and I hope my panel will be pushed to it's true potential sometime next year.

I'd like to know if the studios doing disc based DV now and in the future are using or going to be using the supposedly improved ICtCp color container rather than the normal YCbCr component encoding (that was more in keeping with the older 8 bit Rec 709 color space than P3 or Rec 2020).

Due to Dolby's enhancement layer, they can get away with changing that parameter as well without HDMI choking on it or having the BDA add it to the specs. All Dolby Vision compliant devices are supposed to be compatible with ICtCp encoding, and even Netflix is starting to use it on their DV encodes.

[i_max2k2]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

One benefit of DV regardless is that the encode is 12 bit rather than 10 bit with HDR10. The lack of banding with HDR is a tremendous value. I believe that the Z9D is capable of true 12 bit processing unlike a lot of consumer displays out right now that are either 10 bit or 8 bit dithered.

Do you mean Z9D panel is a 12 bit display? I thought there wasn't any panel on the market which was 12bit. Oled panels are 10bit and do 12 bit processing as well AFAIK.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by i_max2k2

Do you mean Z9D panel is a 12 bit display? I thought there wasn't any panel on the market which was 12bit. Oled panels are 10bit and do 12 bit processing as well AFAIK.

The Z9D is more a pro panel than an average consumer display with features one would find at a studio than a model at your corner Best Buy, though owners of said display could certainly shine more light on its capabilities.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by i_max2k2

Do you mean Z9D panel is a 12 bit display? I thought there wasn't any panel on the market which was 12bit. Oled panels are 10bit and do 12 bit processing as well AFAIK.

The panel is 10-bit. The processing is 14-bit.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The panel is 10-bit. The processing is 14-bit.

I stand corrected. Thanks, G. Though, it sounds like it can benefit from 12 bit source material.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by i_max2k2

Sorry I haven't read most of the thread, but how have they dropped the ball?

Some select issues here and there, but the HDR10+ cheerleader is an expert making Everest out of a molehill.

[the_sextein]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The panel is 10-bit. The processing is 14-bit.

I may be incorrect but DV is currently limited to 12 bit correct? I am just trying comprehend what DV will bring to the table if Sony gets around to a firmware upgrade. Could the 14 bit processing benefit a Z9D user since the backlight is not capable of 4000 nits? I know that true 12 bit color is possible on a 10 bit display.