Panasonic G15 (or S1) vs Samsung LNB650 - Blu-ray Forum

Odin75 · 11-26-2009, 01:37 PM

Hi guys, I'm new to the forum. Have been a visitor for a long time, but just recently created an account.

So, I did a search around google and here, and didn't quite found the answer I was looking for. I'm trying to decide between the Panasonic G15 (Plasma), and the Samsung LNB650 (LCD). This is going to replace a Westinghouse LVM-37w3se. As you can see on my HT Gallery, it will be used in a HTPC setup. The main reasons I want to replace this screen is because it has bad viewing angles, bad black levels, and motion blur. The viewing angles are not bad sideways, but up and down, which in return mess up the black levels. The motion blur is somewhat obvious, but I notice it more in moving text, there this text feels like it stuttering.

I went to my local stores, after reading the reviews of the G10 (thicker G15) and the LNB650. The first thing that threw me off, was that blacks on the G10 looked gray in all 3 stores I visited. All the reviews I read indicate the G10 has super deep black levels, but when I saw it in person, it was dark gray at best. Aside from that, the brightness was a bit too dim. Perfect for up-close PC usage, but too low for movie watching. I suppose bringing the brightness up is going to mess the blacks even more. I was so shocked that I even went to see the Kuro Elite just for comparison, and while better, the blacks look like an over washed tuxedo.

However, when I looked at the LNB650, those blacks were so deep that it blended right with the frame. I did notice what the reviews say, that the black tend to lean towards blue, but I only noticed this while watching it side-by-side against the S1. By itself is not visible at all, and I feel this can be helped a little by calibrating it somewhat. I understand that nothing in real life looks so deep, because even closing my eyes doesn't reach the level of deepness that screen has (weird uh?), but I assume that if it can do that extreme, it can do the lighter shades with ease. Sorry if I sound a little biased, but that's the deepest black I have seen in my life, not even my piano black PS3 looks so deep.

I was glad to see that neither the G10 nor the LNB650 suffered from viewing angles problems. The Samsung impressed me, because I went hoping for the color to get washed out, but it didn't. The G10 of course doesn't have that problem for being a plasma, and watching it at extreme angles looked just as good.

Unfortunately, they didn't have many commercials with text, so it was hard to judge motion blur. I saw a Panasonic LCD that had a blu-ray with some text, and it looks horrible. The text looked like it was having a seizure, that's how shaky it was. Maybe it was a 60h LCD, I don't know. The G10 had a commercial playing which I'm familiar with, and the motion was very smooth. It did reminded me of the CRT we have in the living room, but not as good. The LNB650 did pretty good too. It sucks that they didn't have text commercials playing, so I could compare motion blur between them.

I care about the Input Lag as well, but I plan to use them in Game Mode for that. My current Westinghouse was no lag at all, so I expect similar performance from this newer models.
Also, I do enjoy the look of Auto Motion Plus, before any of you asks.

So as you can see, I'm really trying to like the G10/S1, but I can't. The price is perfect, because I'm looking for something in the 50" range for no more than $1,300 shipped. The 54" S1 special in Sears is amazing, considering I don't like how deem THX looks on the G10, and I can calibrate it using Cnet or D-Nice settings. The Samsung has a 46", that while not ideal, is better than the 55" that I can't afford.
I'm almost considering getting the 54" S1 from Sears, and then return it if I don't like it. I'm just trying to understand why it looks so difference when I look at it at the store, as oppose to pictures in this forum.

I'll post some video later today, from footage I took in my quest, to show what I mean. I'm really hoping you guys can prove the video wrong, and the blacks are not that gray, because I'm really trying to like the S1/G10.

Thanks for reading, and sorry for the long post.

(If this is not the place, sorry, and can you move it?)

eclimax13 · 11-27-2009, 12:08 AM

damn id love to give you some help but i refuse to read all that...i am a lazy reader...if you can compress that a bit i might have some useful info

Sonny · 11-27-2009, 12:23 AM

Get whatever is the cheapestestestest... Damn I'm stuffed!

Darkthrone · 11-27-2009, 11:23 AM

I dont think you will be disappointed with the 54 inch S1...thats a very good deal as well.
But dont take too much in consideration on how the tv looks in the store. Usually they aren't even calibrated. Like you said..if you dont like the S1..just return it and get a different model.

Odin75 · 11-28-2009, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eclimax13

damn id love to give you some help but i refuse to read all that...i am a lazy reader...if you can compress that a bit i might have some useful info

Well, basically I was saying why do plasmas have blacks that look gray instead of black. I wen to 3 different stores, and even saw the Kuro Elite, and the blacks didn't look as deep as the LNB650.

Anyways, I talked to some guy in youtube that has the G15, and he explained to me how it works. LCDs get deep the brighter the room, while Plasmas get deeper the darker the room. That's the part I didn't understand, and now it makes sense why the S1, G10, and V10 looked so different. It was not the TV, but more the environment they were in.
I did some experiments myself, by putting a lamp right in front of my LCD, and I somewhat recreated the scene. My blacks got way deeper when I turned the lap on, and went back to gray as soon as I turned it off.

Anyways, The video is uploading as we speak to youtube. It takes a while, but I think it will help someone out there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkthrone

I dont think you will be disappointed with the 54 inch S1...thats a very good deal as well.
But dont take too much in consideration on how the tv looks in the store. Usually they aren't even calibrated. Like you said..if you dont like the S1..just return it and get a different model.

Yep, It was silly of me to compare the TVs in a store, without fully understanding how each technology works. Read the adobe message, which explains why. Now I see that stores are just a guideline, but not a definitive of optimal potential.

I got the 54" S1 that was in special in Sears. Hopefully I will like it a lot, considering my room is pitch black as soon as I close the door. I'm doing the layaway payment method, but I should have it home in a matter of 3 weeks tops.

Again, thanks for the replies guys. After I'm done uploading the video, I'll post it here. It shows the Tvs I recorded with my digital camera as I was visiting my local stores.

Odin75 · 11-28-2009, 05:01 AM

Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5uQKRjYFFY

Sorry if it's too long, but I'm sure it will help someone, as it sure helped me decide. Once I saw how each tv behaved in different environments, and knowledge of others, it helped me narrow down my choices. I recorded all this from BestBuy, CompUSA, and Sears. Enjoy!

(if the video looks crappy, give it a few minutes/hours, youtube might still be processing it. I recorded mainly in 720p.)

11-26-2009, 01:37 PM	#1
Odin75 Active Member Member since:Nov 2009 Home Theater Gallery:30 Blu-ray collection:3	Panasonic G15 (or S1) vs Samsung LNB650 Hi guys, I'm new to the forum. Have been a visitor for a long time, but just recently created an account. So, I did a search around google and here, and didn't quite found the answer I was looking for. I'm trying to decide between the Panasonic G15 (Plasma), and the Samsung LNB650 (LCD). This is going to replace a Westinghouse LVM-37w3se. As you can see on my HT Gallery, it will be used in a HTPC setup. The main reasons I want to replace this screen is because it has bad viewing angles, bad black levels, and motion blur. The viewing angles are not bad sideways, but up and down, which in return mess up the black levels. The motion blur is somewhat obvious, but I notice it more in moving text, there this text feels like it stuttering. I went to my local stores, after reading the reviews of the G10 (thicker G15) and the LNB650. The first thing that threw me off, was that blacks on the G10 looked gray in all 3 stores I visited. All the reviews I read indicate the G10 has super deep black levels, but when I saw it in person, it was dark gray at best. Aside from that, the brightness was a bit too dim. Perfect for up-close PC usage, but too low for movie watching. I suppose bringing the brightness up is going to mess the blacks even more. I was so shocked that I even went to see the Kuro Elite just for comparison, and while better, the blacks look like an over washed tuxedo. However, when I looked at the LNB650, those blacks were so deep that it blended right with the frame. I did notice what the reviews say, that the black tend to lean towards blue, but I only noticed this while watching it side-by-side against the S1. By itself is not visible at all, and I feel this can be helped a little by calibrating it somewhat. I understand that nothing in real life looks so deep, because even closing my eyes doesn't reach the level of deepness that screen has (weird uh?), but I assume that if it can do that extreme, it can do the lighter shades with ease. Sorry if I sound a little biased, but that's the deepest black I have seen in my life, not even my piano black PS3 looks so deep. I was glad to see that neither the G10 nor the LNB650 suffered from viewing angles problems. The Samsung impressed me, because I went hoping for the color to get washed out, but it didn't. The G10 of course doesn't have that problem for being a plasma, and watching it at extreme angles looked just as good. Unfortunately, they didn't have many commercials with text, so it was hard to judge motion blur. I saw a Panasonic LCD that had a blu-ray with some text, and it looks horrible. The text looked like it was having a seizure, that's how shaky it was. Maybe it was a 60h LCD, I don't know. The G10 had a commercial playing which I'm familiar with, and the motion was very smooth. It did reminded me of the CRT we have in the living room, but not as good. The LNB650 did pretty good too. It sucks that they didn't have text commercials playing, so I could compare motion blur between them. I care about the Input Lag as well, but I plan to use them in Game Mode for that. My current Westinghouse was no lag at all, so I expect similar performance from this newer models. Also, I do enjoy the look of Auto Motion Plus, before any of you asks. So as you can see, I'm really trying to like the G10/S1, but I can't. The price is perfect, because I'm looking for something in the 50" range for no more than $1,300 shipped. The 54" S1 special in Sears is amazing, considering I don't like how deem THX looks on the G10, and I can calibrate it using Cnet or D-Nice settings. The Samsung has a 46", that while not ideal, is better than the 55" that I can't afford. I'm almost considering getting the 54" S1 from Sears, and then return it if I don't like it. I'm just trying to understand why it looks so difference when I look at it at the store, as oppose to pictures in this forum. I'll post some video later today, from footage I took in my quest, to show what I mean. I'm really hoping you guys can prove the video wrong, and the blacks are not that gray, because I'm really trying to like the S1/G10. Thanks for reading, and sorry for the long post. (If this is not the place, sorry, and can you move it?)

Similar Threads
thread	Forum	Thread Starter	Replies	Last Post
Panny G15 TweakTV Settings?	Plasma TVs	EQ3282	3	04-20-2010 11:16 PM
Panny G15 Break-In Questions	Plasma TVs	EQ3282	14	02-01-2010 12:47 AM
Panny G15 just purchased, Now what?	Plasma TVs	wozman	8	10-29-2009 04:00 PM
G10/G15 25p situation?	Plasma TVs	acritzer	4	10-23-2009 02:59 PM
Samsung vs Panasonic	Plasma TVs	LifeOfAPirate13	12	09-24-2009 10:11 PM

11-27-2009, 12:08 AM	#2
eclimax13 Special Member Member since:Dec 2008 Location:Massachusetts Home Theater Gallery:19 Blu-ray reviews:4 Trading Score:2	damn id love to give you some help but i refuse to read all that...i am a lazy reader...if you can compress that a bit i might have some useful info

11-27-2009, 12:23 AM	#3
Sonny Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Aug 2007 Home Theater Gallery:8 Blu-ray reviews:6 Trading Score:1	Get whatever is the cheapestestestest... Damn I'm stuffed!

11-27-2009, 11:23 AM	#4
Darkthrone Expert Member Top contributor Member since:Mar 2009 4K collection:3 Blu-ray collection:954 DVD collection:21 Trading Score:5	I dont think you will be disappointed with the 54 inch S1...thats a very good deal as well. But dont take too much in consideration on how the tv looks in the store. Usually they aren't even calibrated. Like you said..if you dont like the S1..just return it and get a different model.

11-28-2009, 05:01 AM	#6
Odin75 Active Member Member since:Nov 2009 Home Theater Gallery:30 Blu-ray collection:3	Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5uQKRjYFFY Sorry if it's too long, but I'm sure it will help someone, as it sure helped me decide. Once I saw how each tv behaved in different environments, and knowledge of others, it helped me narrow down my choices. I recorded all this from BestBuy, CompUSA, and Sears. Enjoy! (if the video looks crappy, give it a few minutes/hours, youtube might still be processing it. I recorded mainly in 720p.)

Best Blu-ray Movie Deals