blu-ray disappointment - Blu-ray Forum

cws2882 · 06-21-2006, 04:40 AM

So now that blu-ray is out all I can think about now is when are they going to start putting out all the movies on duel layer 50 gig disks, or our we going to be stuck with most of them on 25 gig? I am sorry you blu-ray makers, but your video sucks pretty bad compared to hd-dvd. At least this is my impression with some of the initial movies. If you need more space because you are using mpeg2 instead of mpeg4, then use the duel layer disks. I wish they wouldnt have even launched this player without all the disks duel layers.

I look at it this way, hd-dvd uses 30 gigs on each disk, plus they have a much better video compression algorithm, and they use the new lossless hd audio formats (some do anyway). Blu-ray uses a crappy mpeg2 compression and doesnt use any lossless compression algorithms for audio. this takes up lots of space, and they currenly have less space than hd-dvd (25 vs 30 gigs). I am giving the blu-ray camp until xmass to start putting out the majority of the movies on duel layer disks and by that time, if they are still overprice and lower quality, i am going to be looking into hd-dvd.

zombie · 06-21-2006, 05:03 AM

I've read numerous reviews and saw two demos of Hitch today, one at Best Buy and the other at Circuit City. Regardless of being connected properly via HDMI and to 1080p TVs as well as having the correct output settings on the player, each demo looked dreadful compared to the quality I'm used to on most HD DVDs. I'm looking forward to dual layer discs as well, that or a better codec. This advancement can't happen soon enough. I had high expectations and the current crop of titles are disappointing indeed.

suprmallet · 06-21-2006, 06:08 AM

It is a shame that these first ones were rushed. But I still feel this first round is meant only to combat the HD-DVD sales among very early adopters. Sony is banking on the PS3 to really sell blu-ray, so I imagine we'll get better transfers and discs (not of the same movies, mind you) in November.

georgir · 06-21-2006, 06:49 AM

but from the reviews of terminator and underworld i saw on this site, i thought BD looks quite good. maybe they just messed up hitch?

suprmallet · 06-21-2006, 07:47 AM

Hitch, Fifth Element, XXX, and House of Flying Daggers from what I've heard.

I actually ordered T2, Fifth Element, and Chronos from Amazon. Then I saw the bad review on Fifth Element. So I changed it to T2, Terminator, and House of Flying Daggers. Then I heard bad things about House of Flying Daggers. So then I thought, shit, maybe I should just get a HD-DVD player. But by now, spending $500 on a player for which I'm only going to get four or five movies at the moment seemed a tad much, especially since I have literally piles of unwatched DVDs. So I'm going to wait it out. If I find the Toshiba real cheap ($200 or under), then I'd make the plunge.

partridge · 06-21-2006, 09:18 AM

Hang on, what? BD movies are no good? I thought BD and HD-DVD were virtually identical in quality? What's the background story here? I though HD-DVD used mpeg2 too.

Blue · 06-21-2006, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by partridge

Hang on, what? BD movies are no good? I thought BD and HD-DVD were virtually identical in quality? What's the background story here? I though HD-DVD used mpeg2 too.

You beat me to it - well written.

If one want's to compare Toshiba and Samsung go ahead - or one movie vs another or compare encoding formats, as appart from capacity, menu software and DRM both formats are so close to identical it's not funny - in fact using only Single layer BD I think they can get 27GB - so there is not even an impediment to them both using the codec at the same bit rate.

I would suggest that Sony player mabe a little stronger in the Video and Audio sections than the Samsung.

Anyone that does wish to compare the HD-DVD and BD will need to wait until HD-DVD burners are available and transfer the same content to both disks, then use the same monitor players will need to output the same resolution - preferably both 1080p, but remember you are only comparing specific pieces of hardware.

cws2882 · 06-21-2006, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by partridge

Hang on, what? BD movies are no good? I thought BD and HD-DVD were virtually identical in quality? What's the background story here? I though HD-DVD used mpeg2 too.

No HD-DVD uses mpeg4, which gives you the same quality will less space. Sony does not use mpeg4 because they apparently hold patents on mpeg2 and would have to pay fees to use mpeg4. Blu-ray and HD-DVD would be identical is blu-ray would use the duel layer disks, but apparently they are reducing the quality in order to get all the material to fit on a 25G single layer disk. There are, however, at least two blu-ray movies that look good. But there are at least 3 that i know of that dont look so good.

Ian110769 · 06-21-2006, 07:41 PM

I don't believe this, I was all but 100% sold on Blu-ray as the way forward and they go do this and make me wonder. It reminds me of the bad old days with DVD where you would get shoddy no-extras discs on flippers i.e. you had to actually turn the thing over part way through the film. I can only hope that this is indeed early rush jobs only and that by the time PS3 comes out it all sorted. What about the sub-standard releases and the odds they will get better re-releases - some of my favourite films, the Terminator movies, are in that early lot! I have to wonder if maybe this really is Betamax vs VHS all over again, that is the better format will be the one that loses, because I still feel Blu-ray will do best regardless of how good it ultimately proves to be compared to HD-DVD!

suprmallet · 06-21-2006, 07:43 PM

I promise you there will be a re-release of every launch day title, as Sony is the king of re-releases. Just don't expect them to come out right away.

zombie · 06-21-2006, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suprmallet

I promise you there will be a re-release of every launch day title, as Sony is the king of re-releases. Just don't expect them to come out right away.

Agreed. This is frustrating to me because I was interested in several of the launch titles now I'll have to wait even longer to see them in true HD glory.

rgb · 06-21-2006, 08:14 PM

So is the consensus that we will start seeing dual-layer blu-ray disks by November?

zombie · 06-21-2006, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgb

So is the consensus that we will start seeing dual-layer blu-ray disks by November?

Yeah pretty much, sometime in fall.

suprmallet · 06-21-2006, 08:37 PM

The consensus is that if Sony doesn't release dual-layer Blu-ray discs by fall, then they're up a creek without a paddle. When we actually will see dual-layer discs is up in the air.

cws2882 · 06-21-2006, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgb

So is the consensus that we will start seeing dual-layer blu-ray disks by November?

Im not even sure that will be enought for me. Start using mpeg4 and dolby trueHD or DTS HD and then we will have some real high def movies.

I wonder how a 30 gig mpeg 4 with true HD hd-dvd would compare with a 50 gig blu ray with mpeg2 and uncompressed audio? And also what about hd-dvd? Are they going to have there triple layer disks ready from prime time by the time blu-ray gets there crap together? The next 6 months to a year ought to be interesting as it seems like hd-dvd is really starting to pick up some momentum......

Oh yea, and i know about the ps3 ace in the hole, but im not going to buy any of their movies if a large majority of them are not duel layer and better compression.

suprmallet · 06-21-2006, 08:44 PM

Triple-layer discs for HD are just a theory at this point. The DVD Forum has not even put it as an official technical specification, and no one is working on making them. Right now dual-layer HD-DVDs are more than enough. And I don't think anyone will be against multi-disc sets on these new formats, considering you can usually get these discs at the same price as their DVD equivalents.

ClaytonMG · 06-21-2006, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cws2882

I look at it this way, hd-dvd uses 30 gigs on each disk, plus they have a much better video compression algorithm, and they use the new lossless hd audio formats (some do anyway). Blu-ray uses a crappy mpeg2 compression and doesnt use any lossless compression algorithms for audio. this takes up lots of space, and they currenly have less space than hd-dvd (25 vs 30 gigs). I am giving the blu-ray camp until xmass to start putting out the majority of the movies on duel layer disks and by that time, if they are still overprice and lower quality, i am going to be looking into hd-dvd.

Actually right now there has yet to be a 30gb HD-DVD release. They're all the single layered 15gb discs (which is odd considering they call them HD-30's). So right now... Blu-Ray discs are 25gb, and HD-DVD's are 15gb...

Clayton

zombie · 06-21-2006, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClaytonMG

Actually right now there has yet to be a 30gb HD-DVD release. They're all the single layered 15gb discs (which is odd considering they call them HD-30's). So right now... Blu-Ray discs are 25gb, and HD-DVD's are 15gb...

Clayton

You are mistaken. Except for the 3 DVD/HD DVD combo discs, all HD DVDs are dual layer 30gb.

ClaytonMG · 06-21-2006, 10:53 PM

Holy crap, and here all this time I've been thinking they're all single layered (since I believe that's what Digitalbits.com reported).

zombie · 06-22-2006, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClaytonMG

Holy crap, and here all this time I've been thinking they're all single layered (since I believe that's what Digitalbits.com reported).

Yeah unfortunately there's a lot of misinformation out there some caused by mistakes others diliberately.

FWIW, all of the Universal titles state "HD-30" on the backcover.

06-21-2006, 04:40 AM	#1
cws2882 Member Member since:Feb 2006	blu-ray disappointment So now that blu-ray is out all I can think about now is when are they going to start putting out all the movies on duel layer 50 gig disks, or our we going to be stuck with most of them on 25 gig? I am sorry you blu-ray makers, but your video sucks pretty bad compared to hd-dvd. At least this is my impression with some of the initial movies. If you need more space because you are using mpeg2 instead of mpeg4, then use the duel layer disks. I wish they wouldnt have even launched this player without all the disks duel layers. I look at it this way, hd-dvd uses 30 gigs on each disk, plus they have a much better video compression algorithm, and they use the new lossless hd audio formats (some do anyway). Blu-ray uses a crappy mpeg2 compression and doesnt use any lossless compression algorithms for audio. this takes up lots of space, and they currenly have less space than hd-dvd (25 vs 30 gigs). I am giving the blu-ray camp until xmass to start putting out the majority of the movies on duel layer disks and by that time, if they are still overprice and lower quality, i am going to be looking into hd-dvd.

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06-21-2006, 05:03 AM	#2
zombie Blu-ray Guru Top contributor Member since:May 2004 Trading Score:865	I've read numerous reviews and saw two demos of Hitch today, one at Best Buy and the other at Circuit City. Regardless of being connected properly via HDMI and to 1080p TVs as well as having the correct output settings on the player, each demo looked dreadful compared to the quality I'm used to on most HD DVDs. I'm looking forward to dual layer discs as well, that or a better codec. This advancement can't happen soon enough. I had high expectations and the current crop of titles are disappointing indeed.

06-21-2006, 06:08 AM	#3
suprmallet Active Member Member since:Jun 2006 Blu-ray collection:264	It is a shame that these first ones were rushed. But I still feel this first round is meant only to combat the HD-DVD sales among very early adopters. Sony is banking on the PS3 to really sell blu-ray, so I imagine we'll get better transfers and discs (not of the same movies, mind you) in November.

06-21-2006, 06:49 AM	#4
georgir Active Member Member since:Mar 2005	but from the reviews of terminator and underworld i saw on this site, i thought BD looks quite good. maybe they just messed up hitch?

06-21-2006, 07:47 AM	#5
suprmallet Active Member Member since:Jun 2006 Blu-ray collection:264	Hitch, Fifth Element, XXX, and House of Flying Daggers from what I've heard. I actually ordered T2, Fifth Element, and Chronos from Amazon. Then I saw the bad review on Fifth Element. So I changed it to T2, Terminator, and House of Flying Daggers. Then I heard bad things about House of Flying Daggers. So then I thought, shit, maybe I should just get a HD-DVD player. But by now, spending $500 on a player for which I'm only going to get four or five movies at the moment seemed a tad much, especially since I have literally piles of unwatched DVDs. So I'm going to wait it out. If I find the Toshiba real cheap ($200 or under), then I'd make the plunge.

06-21-2006, 09:18 AM	#6
partridge Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Oct 2005 Location:England	Hang on, what? BD movies are no good? I thought BD and HD-DVD were virtually identical in quality? What's the background story here? I though HD-DVD used mpeg2 too.

06-21-2006, 07:41 PM	#9
Ian110769 Junior Member Member since:Jun 2006	I don't believe this, I was all but 100% sold on Blu-ray as the way forward and they go do this and make me wonder. It reminds me of the bad old days with DVD where you would get shoddy no-extras discs on flippers i.e. you had to actually turn the thing over part way through the film. I can only hope that this is indeed early rush jobs only and that by the time PS3 comes out it all sorted. What about the sub-standard releases and the odds they will get better re-releases - some of my favourite films, the Terminator movies, are in that early lot! I have to wonder if maybe this really is Betamax vs VHS all over again, that is the better format will be the one that loses, because I still feel Blu-ray will do best regardless of how good it ultimately proves to be compared to HD-DVD!

06-21-2006, 07:43 PM	#10
suprmallet Active Member Member since:Jun 2006 Blu-ray collection:264	I promise you there will be a re-release of every launch day title, as Sony is the king of re-releases. Just don't expect them to come out right away.

06-21-2006, 08:14 PM	#12
rgb Member Member since:May 2006 Location:USA	So is the consensus that we will start seeing dual-layer blu-ray disks by November?

06-21-2006, 08:37 PM	#14
suprmallet Active Member Member since:Jun 2006 Blu-ray collection:264	The consensus is that if Sony doesn't release dual-layer Blu-ray discs by fall, then they're up a creek without a paddle. When we actually will see dual-layer discs is up in the air.

06-21-2006, 08:44 PM	#16
suprmallet Active Member Member since:Jun 2006 Blu-ray collection:264	Triple-layer discs for HD are just a theory at this point. The DVD Forum has not even put it as an official technical specification, and no one is working on making them. Right now dual-layer HD-DVDs are more than enough. And I don't think anyone will be against multi-disc sets on these new formats, considering you can usually get these discs at the same price as their DVD equivalents.

06-21-2006, 10:53 PM	#19
ClaytonMG Blu-ray Samurai Member since:May 2006 Location:New Brighton, MN Home Theater Gallery:16 4K collection:840 Blu-ray collection:2380 Blu-ray reviews:2 Trading Score:1	Holy crap, and here all this time I've been thinking they're all single layered (since I believe that's what Digitalbits.com reported).

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