Blu-ray - What a major disappointment

[JimPullan]

Yesterday, Blu-Ray is a no show at LG's event, Pioneer Elite is having coroprate financial problems, Sony keeps postponing its introduction, movie releases are contunuously delayed, these first players are, at best, marginal, and so on.

Knowing months ago, we were back into a scenereo like VHS vs BETA war, and I was optomistic that the major player in the Blu-Ray Group, SONY would not allow history to repeat itself, especially seeing Sony buy MGM for 3.3 Billion dollars, to enhance their offerings of Blu-Ray DVD's along with their existing libraries. As we moved through the summer months, we here on the Forum were also optomistic, that the Blu-Ray consortium would win the day, have superior products, their players and their movies. As we entered the fall we started seeing problems and issues surface over and over again, while concurrently the HD-DVD group is establishing and gaining a very nice foothold with excellent movie introductions, a player with glitches resolved already, players in abundance from every mass merchandiser nationwide, now they bundle three HD-DVD's with every player sold, will be introducing their 1080p player, the X2A before Christmas, a second generation player, with zero issues and including HDMi-1.3 to boot !!!

Now the excitement has subsided here on the Forum. Sony seems to be placing all it chips on the PS3, not the BDP-S1. Dragging their feet with an introduction date for the BDP-S1 'sometime' in December shows me the utter failure of the Blu-Ray Group to achieve an objective. They have activity, without accomplishment. Failing to capitalize on the holiday shopping season will certainly place Pioneer in risk of survival, and Sony's credibility forever ruined. Even if Toshiba lost the tabletop player war, they will still come out a winner, making HD-DVD drives for computers, being in bed with Microsoft.

It appears that the HD-DVD participants are laughing their way to the bank, other forums certainly are laughing at us, saying I told you so.

Have I missed anything yet ? This Holiday . . . Bah Humbug to the grinch - SONY and PIONEER ELITE . Where's my Toshiba X2A ?


Jim Pullan
Audio Excellence
Ocala, FL

[GaS]

Originally Posted by JimPullan

Have I missed anything yet ? This Holiday . . . Bah Humbug to the grinch - SONY and PIONEER ELITE . Where's my Toshiba X2A ?

I don't see any lack of excitement on this board. PS3 will come out, the other players will come out and HD-DVD will be left with their Toshiba. The people will choose, maybe HD-DVD, maybe BD, and maybe nothing. If you are so down and out, go join the other side.

[Spankey]

It appears that the HD-DVD participants are laughing their way to the bank, other forums certainly are laughing at us, saying I told you so.

Are they?

What did they tell us? Go enjoy your Toshiba and all the Universal titles you can. In the meantime, I'm enjoying Blu-ray and all it has to offer from every studio except Universal. Ta ta..

[Jeff®]

[Spankey]

Yeah, I think we need to add barf alerts to some of these posts..

[JTK]

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=3243

LG is a non factor until probably Valentine's Day.

Frankly: Who cares? And yes, I'd say the same thing if they were HD-DVD only. I view LG the same way I view Toshiba: Doesn't mean much to me.



Yeah, I'm really worried and heartbroken about BD and its prospects because a second rate company LG didn't show some player at some rinky dink little show.


The HD-DVD fanboys and zealots are "laughing all the way to the bank" regardless of anything else simply because they believe nothing but lies, delusions, and wishing-upon-a-star fantasies.

I expect a lot better from you Jim than the seeming FUD/Doom and gloom that I feel like I'm reading in this thread.

[Josh]

I'm not sure what you are looking at, but your facts are wrong. The A2 was supposed to be out in October. Its now November and its no where to be found. Does that mean HD DVD is failing?

And with the delay of the A2, what makes you think the XA2 will be out on time, especially when they have said late December/early January this whole time?

The Sony BDP-S1 is a Pioneer product, so they will both be delayed if one gets delayed. The only player Sony is worried about is the PS3.

If anything, with the slew of 4th quarter titles being announced for Blu-ray, the momentum is clearly in their corner while HD DVD sits and waits.

[JimPullan]

Originally Posted by GaS

I don't see any lack of excitement on this board. PS3 will come out, the other players will come out and HD-DVD will be left with their Toshiba. The people will choose, maybe HD-DVD, maybe BD, and maybe nothing. If you are so down and out, go join the other side.

These are the facts to date. I have always been a Blu-Ray supporter and will acquire the BDP-S2 next year when it comes out. Down and out has nothing to do with seeing the disappointing start of Blu-Ray. As important as this is to both Sony and Pioneer, you would have thought they would have had their ducks in a row, done things right from the onset, been on time, and blown away the competition. This did not, and as up to today, has not occured. Can and will they recover ? . . . . Time will tell.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by JimPullan

Yesterday, Blu-Ray is a no show at LG's event, Pioneer Elite is having coroprate financial problems, Sony keeps postponing its introduction, movie releases are contunuously delayed, these first players are, at best, marginal, and so on.

Mostly fact at the beginning with nebulous and subjective opinion at the end.

Knowing months ago, we were back into a scenereo like VHS vs BETA war, and I was optomistic that the major player in the Blu-Ray Group, SONY would not allow history to repeat itself, especially seeing Sony buy MGM for 3.3 Billion dollars, to enhance their offerings of Blu-Ray DVD's along with their existing libraries. As we moved through the summer months, we here on the Forum were also optomistic, that the Blu-Ray consortium would win the day, have superior products, their players and their movies.

As we entered the fall we started seeing problems and issues surface over and over again, while concurrently the HD-DVD group is establishing and gaining a very nice foothold with excellent movie introductions, a player with glitches resolved already, players in abundance from every mass merchandiser nationwide, now they bundle three HD-DVD's with every player sold, will be introducing their 1080p player, the X2A before Christmas, a second generation player, with zero issues and including HDMi-1.3 to boot !!!

Now the excitement has subsided here on the Forum. Sony seems to be placing all it chips on the PS3, not the BDP-S1. Dragging their feet with an introduction date for the BDP-S1 'sometime' in December shows me the utter failure of the Blu-Ray Group to achieve an objective. They have activity, without accomplishment. Failing to capitalize on the holiday shopping season will certainly place Pioneer in risk of survival, and Sony's credibility forever ruined. Even if Toshiba lost the tabletop player war, they will still come out a winner, making HD-DVD drives for computers, being in bed with Microsoft.

It appears that the HD-DVD participants are laughing their way to the bank, other forums certainly are laughing at us, saying I told you so.

Have I missed anything yet ? This Holiday . . . Bah Humbug to the grinch - SONY and PIONEER ELITE . Where's my Toshiba X2A ?


Jim Pullan
Audio Excellence
Ocala, FL

Which Blu-Ray forum have you been on?

Furthermore: Any of BD's issues were way back in the summer and it's been getting noticeably better, on every front, since late September thereabouts.

Most of their QA issues have already been eliminated and the Sony and Pioneer players are coming out late November, early December and hopefully, their QA will be excellent and certain futureproofing will be in place.

I'm sure I don't need to get into the potential impact the PS3 will have starting in a few weeks and the plethora of great software that's already been coming out from most of the major studios.

So I ask you again: Where is this doom and gloom coming from?

No offense, but your thread title kind of has that FUD glow going for it and sets a tone that maybe you weren't looking for here.

[JimPullan]

Calm down JTK. Every Forum member has the right and priveledge to voice he's or her opinion ragarding contemporary issues, rightly or wrongly perceived, understood or misunderstood. Yes, with that right to convey what one feels, is the responsibility for such communication. Other members can comment on that post, countering with their opinion, supporting their position as they feel led. This does not however provide open season on the forum poster, his intelligence, his personality, or his mental state. Your comments and opinions are welcomed and valued. Please just keep away from the personal attacks. I'd appreciate it. Thank you . . . . . [Jim]

[JTK]

Couldn't be less personal or emotional.

I just took exception to what I perceived being some suspect opinions being passed off as facts. I feel like maybe you started off on the wrong foot with the thread title.

Maybe I read wrong.

[Rob Tomlin]

Originally Posted by JimPullan

Yesterday, Blu-Ray is a no show at LG's event, Pioneer Elite is having coroprate financial problems, Sony keeps postponing its introduction, movie releases are contunuously delayed, these first players are, at best, marginal, and so on.

Wow, lots of stuff in your first paragraph!

Yes, it was a surprise that LG didn't have a BD player, or even an announcement at their event. But how big of an issue is this? I guess there are some people that were waiting for LG to release a BD player in the hope that it would be cheaper than the currently available BD players, so I agree that this is obviously not exactly good news for BD. But it certainly isn't devastating either.

As for Pioneer- what do their "financial problems" have to do with BD? Non issue.

Sony's repeated postponement of their player- I agree, bad for BD. Bad for Sony. Get it out already!

What BD movie releases are being delayed? Several HD-DVD releases have been delayed as well.

The initial BD players are "marginal"? Compared to what? The Toshiba's? I think not.

Knowing months ago, we were back into a scenereo like VHS vs BETA war, and I was optomistic that the major player in the Blu-Ray Group, SONY would not allow history to repeat itself, especially seeing Sony buy MGM for 3.3 Billion dollars, to enhance their offerings of Blu-Ray DVD's along with their existing libraries. As we moved through the summer months, we here on the Forum were also optomistic, that the Blu-Ray consortium would win the day, have superior products, their players and their movies. As we entered the fall we started seeing problems and issues surface over and over again, while concurrently the HD-DVD group is establishing and gaining a very nice foothold with excellent movie introductions, a player with glitches resolved already, players in abundance from every mass merchandiser nationwide, now they bundle three HD-DVD's with every player sold, will be introducing their 1080p player, the X2A before Christmas, a second generation player, with zero issues and including HDMi-1.3 to boot !!!

Whoa! Where to start? Why would you say Toshiba will introduce their 1080p player before Xmas with "zero issues"? How could you possibly know that? The player isn't even released yet.

Look, I agree that Sony has dropped the ball on several issues, including the continued delay of their BD player, the less than stellar quality of their early BD releases, and the fact that they are lagging behind in terms of the number of movies that they have/will release this year. I want them to do better. But it isn't the end of the world either, much less the end of the format war!

You say that Toshiba "had its glitches resolved already". I don't think so. People are still having issues with it locking up/skipping. Firmware releases have NOT helped in this regard.

Now the excitement has subsided here on the Forum.

It has?

Sony seems to be placing all it chips on the PS3, not the BDP-S1. Dragging their feet with an introduction date for the BDP-S1 'sometime' in December shows me the utter failure of the Blu-Ray Group to achieve an objective. They have activity, without accomplishment. Failing to capitalize on the holiday shopping season will certainly place Pioneer in risk of survival, and Sony's credibility forever ruined.

Again, this is a valid criticism. Who isn't disappointed that the BDP-S1 has been continually delayed? But, unlike HD-DVD, there are several other BD players to choose from! The Sony player will get here, it's just a matter of patience. Something that I agree is hard to have when it comes to getting a new BD player.

Even if Toshiba lost the tabletop player war, they will still come out a winner, making HD-DVD drives for computers, being in bed with Microsoft.

Point?

It appears that the HD-DVD participants are laughing their way to the bank, other forums certainly are laughing at us, saying I told you so.

What are you talking about? "Laughing their way to the bank"? I don't get it. "Saying I told you so"? Told us so about what? Is the format war over? Did I miss that?

Have I missed anything yet ? This Holiday . . . Bah Humbug to the grinch - SONY and PIONEER ELITE . Where's my Toshiba X2A ?

Yes, I think you missed quite a bit. That said, again, I understand being disappointed in having these players delayed. But it isn't reason for complete doom and gloom, and for thinking the format war is over, either.

Enjoy your X2A!

[JimPullan]

Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin

Enjoy your X2A!

You made valid points. Thank you. Yes I'll be enjoying both formats hopefully soon. Hopefully soon, hopefully soon, hopefully soon.

[Zvi]

Originally Posted by JimPullan

a player with glitches resolved already, players in abundance from every mass merchandiser nationwide, now they bundle three HD-DVD's with every player sold, will be introducing their 1080p player, the X2A before Christmas, a second generation player, with zero issues and including HDMi-1.3 to boot !!!

Interesting, talk about biased.

1) If you mean HD A1 it is far from resolving all glitches. Having had that and refurbished Sammy I can honestly say Sammy is better. After applying respective frimware upgrades to both. Faster boot time, no lockups whatsoever (which still persist on HD A1). And at lest Sammy can resume playback correctly after stop

2) Out of curiosity, how do you know that yet unreleased XA2 which I also plan to buy has zero issues? Matter of faith I guess?

3) U fail to mention that new player with 1080P will cost the same 1000$ as BD players, and actualy more than Samsungs, since those are 800$ or cheaper now. 1080i player is the same tho... Despite the promices that firmware upgrade would fix that issue.

4) U also neglected or forgot that there are already 3 different BD players on the market, Samsung, Phillips and Panasonic. With few more scheduled for next 3 months. Ok there are delays, nobody is happy with those, but on HD DVD side there is NOTHING else that Tosh. Which is going up in price for all I can see. (prooves the point that 1st gen was heavily subsidized I think).

5) Also "forgot" that G2 Tosh players are delayed by now

6) You failed to mention anything positive that happened in BD camp. Be that DL discs release (which was vaporware according to all HD DVD fanboys until the evry day it got released, yet 60gb HD DVDs of course are very real and sitting in Toshiba's basement till we get movied that need them), improved transfers and PQ.

Apparently far as non-biased and objective aproach goes to BD, U and that Murchison dude are on the same level. I am surprised he didn't chime in already with yet another HD DVD hallelujah..

[phloyd]

The release of HD DVD was very delayed. It was announced at CES 2005 to be released for Xmas.

CES 2006 ... no HD DVD. How embarassing.

Yet they eventually released something and people hated the player.

After a few fixes to the players people were more enthusiastic and it appears the delay/poor quality player was forgiven and even forgotten! Now it appears that they did everything right and BD did everything wrong...?

For what it is worth, my Toshiba player is far from perfect. My Panasonic player is also not perfect but it works in a number of ways that the Toshiba either does not or does not reliably.

In any case, if people can forgive and forget the delays and issues with the HD DVD launch I think it is not hard to imagine the same for BD. These next couple of months are not a lot of time in the whole time frame for these advanced formats. With the promising titles that BD has coming out, I think that they are in pretty decent shape going forward.

But finally - imagine this - how would it have been if HD DVD had released on time in December 2005? Perhaps if they had been on time things could be very different...!

[JimPullan]

I am not an advocate of HD-DVD, nor do I expect them to survive long term. I was simply venting my frustrations over all these delays. Too tell you the truth, I have 12 of the BDP-S1 presold and these customers have been waiting since August, not wanting a refund back, but they are treating my company like it were Sony, calling constantly, wanting to know the exact date they'll get there players. DAILY FRUSTRATION, theirs and mine, finding its way here on our Forum.

Sorry for venting emotions !

Jim