Death blow to Toshiba's SRT/SUC/Res+ upconverter: It doesn't work in real-time!

[JBlacklow]

Looks like anytime Lee Stewart, mikemorel, Lestat, or their ilk bring this up, they're gonna look damn foolish:

Great, here we go again. OK, first, I have to state that I do not believe that this laptop is doing SRT. Merely upscaling which any tv can do. Why? Remember back in early summer (Actually it was CES 2008 in January) when Toshiba revealed the prototype for this laptop and showed off all the whizz bang gadgets including the motion control? No? I do. They stated that the laptop would do regular upscaling on the fly and that SRT was possible, but not real time. The guy in the video even stated that this laptop will reduce the SRT time from 15 hours (again actually it was 24 hours) per hour of video to 3 hours per hour of video. Toshiba stated that, not me. That was with the Intel processor and the SpursEngine. The demo he showed with the flamingos was processed before hand and he stated that it was "not" real time.

If you do want to believe me, that's ok, I won't blame you. I'm just saying, we've seen people mish mashing articles together for the last few months to come up with something that is vaguely reminiscent of truth. I don't believe this one anymore than any of the others. To me, unless someone says without question this laptop is doing SRT processing real-time, I don't believe it.

That brings me to the second point. Considering the statement from Toshiba that they were in the process of creating a system that would reduce SRT from 24 hours to 3 hours and that was an amazing feat, I think this laptop is bogging down just trying to do regular upscaling honestly. That's my 2 cents, you all can go back to beating each other up.

http://www.highdefforum.com/showpost...6&postcount=26

Took me forever, but I finally re-tracked down the video from CES 2008. January this year. Cnet took a look at the then prototype Qosmio with the brand new (at the time) SpurEngine BE. There were 4 demos running. One of them was the SRT upscaling demo.

Here is the exact quote from the article:

"Toshiba had four demos running, the first of which transformed standard-definition video into 1080p. This takes any grubby-looking 640x480-pixel video -- of the sort you might record with a mobile phone or digital camera -- applies some hardcore image processing, and spits it out a few hours later as full 1080p. The effect was extremely impressive, and proves that you can, to some extent, polish a turd. Toshiba says it's possible to do this using an ordinary Intel Core processor, but the Spurs system speeds things up considerably -- what would take 24 hours with an ordinary laptop can be done in just three hours with the aid of Spurs. Stop s******ing, Arsenal fans."

Here is the link: http://crave.cnet.co.uk/laptops/0,39...9295004,00.htm

Please pay very close attention to 1:53 of the video where the reporter asks, "Is it all done in real time? ..." and the Toshiba rep responds, "This particular demo is not real time. It takes approximately 3 hours to process one hour of video."

I mistakenly thought it was 15 hours to do the same, but it is actally 24 hours without the SpurEngine.

http://www.highdefforum.com/showpost...3&postcount=27

The implication here is that the user can choose the level of processing. The lowest level is simple upconverting as any available upconverter and most TV's can do. Any thing more and you lose real-time and gain resolution. That makes 100% sense. It also means that real-time SRT is still not here and will be a while since this is as quantum leap forward over any other system.

I won't say SRT is vaporware because I believe it will happen. But at the least it is still dreamware.

http://www.highdefforum.com/showpost...1&postcount=29



The best part is that this is all with high-powered laptop computers. There's no way a on-board solution can do this anytime soon in any player, DVD, HD DVD, or otherwsie. Remember, HD DVD players essentially had last-gen Centrinos to help them, and they still took a minute or two to load.

[stockstar1138]

omg they have to be the stupidest company EVER!!

why in the fu$& would anybody want a DVD player that can't run in real time. what a waste of a billion dollars.

I am just floored that they thought of something this stupid. i mean this is way dumber than downloads, hd dvd, hell even hd vmd.

[The Guardian]

lol. So on a two hour movie, that's a load/buffer time of... four hours, before you can start watching it

And I presume that is with 100% CPU time, if you do other stuff it'll slow it down more

[stockstar1138]

Originally Posted by The Guardian

lol. So on a two hour movie, that's a load/buffer time of... four hours, before you can start watching it

And I presume that is with 100% CPU time, if you do other stuff it'll slow it down more

"This particular demo is not real time. It takes approximately 3 hours to process one hour of video."

a two hour movie would take 6 hours before you can watch it.

talk about load times.

the only way this is feasible if its a one time occurance and the DVD player comes with a massive HDD to store the data on, so once you process everything once, you can play it in SUC from then on without the massive delay.

[Blu Titan]

To$h really needs to go away with their DUDs, HD DUDs, Super DUDs and the rest of it.

[SkillzthatKillz]

hey man, who wants to pop in a blu-ray disc and enjoy the best pq/sq available when they can pop in a dvd and wait around all day for average pq? blu-ray is dead man!!! LoL

[CptGreedle]

That is such a joke!
You have to dedicate your computer for 6 hours, that is 1/4 of a day, just to watch a DVD. Even digital downloads are better than that!

Maybe someday this can get as fast as real time... but that day is long off and Blu-ray will just continue to dominate HD, and eventually Home Media before this even takes off.
I see this as a great way to get youtube videos to look better in 5 years

[The Guardian]

Originally Posted by stockstar1138

"This particular demo is not real time. It takes approximately 3 hours to process one hour of video."

a two hour movie would take 6 hours before you can watch it.

talk about load times.

the only way this is feasible if its a one time occurance and the DVD player comes with a massive HDD to store the data on, so once you process everything once, you can play it in SUC from then on without the massive delay.

I was thinking they could buffer/stream it so once you are 2/3 of the way through upconverting the movie it could start playing, and catch up to itself at the end same way video streams off the net.

[Lucy Diamond]

I'm completely angry and biased, but I worked for the eastern U.S. division of Toshiba for a couple of months as a temp...2 times.

The first time was with a documentations group who were a good bunch of ladies, but the second time was for their claims department and the DICK in charge was a complete B A S T A R D.

I fully understand that it takes a certain type to be able to get money from people who don't want to pay, but this fool would call his wife and even yell at HER on the phone. He just couldn't get enough.


As far as I know, he had been there for years and if they hire people like THAT then you could just imagine the rest of their decision making systems.

This was in 2001 during 9/11 There were talks of a "new format" for the future even back then and how they were going to "crush sony"

[Lucy Diamond]

Die Toshiba!!!

Die Die Die Die Die!!!

[ps3andlovinit]

Originally Posted by JBlacklow

The best part is that this is all with high-powered laptop computers. There's no way a on-board solution can do this anytime soon in any player, DVD, HD DVD, or otherwsie.

Ironically the PS3 is the only current player where it would be feasible. The PS3 has 50% more usable SPE's and is running the Cell twice as fast as the spurs engine .. which would bring it within range of 1 hour to process ........ 1 hour of video. The algorithms are not a big secret .. poor poor Toshiba.

[Monkey]

LOL, much crappier than expected LOL!! Best part of it is more Anti-blu-ray hopes and dreams shattered. Poor Lee

[walk on the blu side]

To think Toshiba actually thought this would work, they are a pathetic company. I could watch about 3 average length movies in the time it would take to wait for their SUC to convert the video.

[Blubaru]

Don’t they have this new player on the market now?

I haven’t heard of anyone needing to wait multiple hours to just see one movie

[Grubert]

Originally Posted by Blubaru

Don’t they have this new player on the market now?

I haven’t heard of anyone needing to wait multiple hours to just see one movie

That's because the set-top player (XD-E500) doesn't do Super-resolution upscaling.

[CptGreedle]

Originally Posted by Blubaru

Don’t they have this new player on the market now?

I haven’t heard of anyone needing to wait multiple hours to just see one movie

It is not the same technology, but I think even the newest one they are advertising isn't due out till later this year.
But really, they have a long way to go to make this even a marketable product.
With prices for Blu-ray dropping to near $200 this holiday season, who cares about SUC and XD and whatever else ISN'T HD?

[Beta Man]

Couple thoughts....... And Yes, I own Blu-ray and HD DVD players.... (had to throw that in there since I commented on it)

1) Long load times in Blu-ray were a point of contention with the HD-DVD fans .... and we're talking about 30 seconds or so???? What's 3 hours then!!!!

2) There is so much confusion right now with "Joe Consumer" People are buying HD DVDs, and Blu-rays, and finding out they don't work in their SD-DVD player..... and getting pissed and returning them, etc.... look at the Blu-rays found on ebay by sellers who thought they were SD-DVD (and you know someone capable of setting up and using an ebay account to sell is even more computer/tech savy than "Joe Consumer" ) Look at the bad reviews on Amazon that people leave b/c they bought the wrong format.



I honestly don't even think the hard-core HD DVD fans who want nothing more than Blu-ray to fail, will buy into this...... they'll start the "My HD DVD player upconverts just as well" campaign....

[Eternal_Sunshine]

German review of the XD-E 500:
http://www.hdtv-praxis.de/modules.ph...=2&page_id=554

Translation (I'm a native speaker):

"It's crap."

[Mentasm]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

Couple thoughts....... And Yes, I own Blu-ray and HD DVD players.... (had to throw that in there since I commented on it)

1) Long load times in Blu-ray were a point of contention with the HD-DVD fans .... and we're talking about 30 seconds or so???? What's 3 hours then!!!!

I honestly don't even think the hard-core HD DVD fans who want nothing more than Blu-ray to fail, will buy into this...... they'll start the "My HD DVD player upconverts just as well" campaign....

Try 3 minutes to load certain titles. Honestly, I know this is a BD-only site, but BD won the format war, do you really still have to get your digs in at HD DVD supporters? Aren't we past that?

[prerich]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

Couple thoughts....... And Yes, I own Blu-ray and HD DVD players.... (had to throw that in there since I commented on it)

1) Long load times in Blu-ray were a point of contention with the HD-DVD fans .... and we're talking about 30 seconds or so???? What's 3 hours then!!!!

2) There is so much confusion right now with "Joe Consumer" People are buying HD DVDs, and Blu-rays, and finding out they don't work in their SD-DVD player..... and getting pissed and returning them, etc.... look at the Blu-rays found on ebay by sellers who thought they were SD-DVD (and you know someone capable of setting up and using an ebay account to sell is even more computer/tech savy than "Joe Consumer" ) Look at the bad reviews on Amazon that people leave b/c they bought the wrong format.



I honestly don't even think the hard-core HD DVD fans who want nothing more than Blu-ray to fail, will buy into this...... they'll start the "My HD DVD player upconverts just as well" campaign....

Beta-man you are correct. Even as I see it, I own both formats (both in PC) and my PC does a fine job of upconverting SD-DVD. The Toshiba ploy will not work, especially with Oppo coming out with a BD that will more than likely upcovert SD-DVD extremly well.