Audyssey set up ?

[Go Blue]

Hope this is the best place to post this. Yesterday I ran the Audyssey set up on my Onkyo 605 and it came up with some odd setting for the db level of each speaker. I first ran it with my sub's volume set around 1/2 and it set my sub at a -3 and my others between 0 and +3. Then I ran it with the sub's volume near the 1/4 and it set the sub to +3 and all other speakers from -2 to 0. I raised the volume on the sub a bit more and everything came back at 0db's for each speaker, including sub. What do I make of this? Does it really matter?

[sptrout]

Originally Posted by schultz

Hope this is the best place to post this. Yesterday I ran the Audyssey set up on my Onkyo 605 and it came up with some odd setting for the db level of each speaker. I first ran it with my sub's volume set around 1/2 and it set my sub at a -3 and my others between 0 and +3. Then I ran it with the sub's volume near the 1/4 and it set the sub to +3 and all other speakers from -2 to 0. I raised the volume on the sub a bit more and everything came back at 0db's for each speaker, including sub. What do I make of this? Does it really matter?

To me the odd thing about your reported results is that the non-subwoofer channel levels are changing when you change the subwoofer level. This should not happen. Audyssey sets each speaker/channel separately and the levels of any other channel should not matter.

Actually, overall, any of the results would be OK (if they were not changing). If you have not read the Setup Guide at the following link; take some time and read it and then rerun Audyssey if you see anything in the Guide that raises a red flag. It is the Audyssey Setup Bible!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post14456895

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by sptrout

To me the odd thing about your reported results is that the non-subwoofer channel levels are changing when you change the subwoofer level. This should not happen. Audyssey sets each speaker/channel separately and the levels of any other channel should not matter.

Actually, overall, any of the results would be OK (if they were not changing). If you have not read the Setup Guide at the following link; take some time and read it and then rerun Audyssey if you see anything in the Guide that raises a red flag. It is the Audyssey Setup Bible!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post14456895

What? Of course it's going to change when he changes the sub levels. The sub's amplifier is independent of the receiver/what Audyssey can change. As a result, it compensates for the volume change by raising or lowering the rest of the setup. That's completely normal.

From your link:

G. Calibrate the subwoofer volume
1. Set the volume control on the subwoofer at the middle of the adjustment range allowed.
a. Please note this “starting point” may not work with all subwoofers.
2. Place the microphone at the primary listening position (the center of the listening area) and run through the calibration process for the first measurement—until all speakers have been measured once.
3. After the first measurement process is complete, select "Calculate", then "Save" or "Store", then go to "Check Parameters".
a. Audyssey will calculate the speaker distances and trim levels from this first measurement.
b. Each manufacturer has a slightly different interface, so the terminology may not exactly match.
4. Check the subwoofer trim levels in the receiver / processor menu.
a. If the subwoofers trim level is at the maximum limit of the cut or boost adjustment range allowed, you need to adjust the volume control on the subwoofer and repeat step #2. Specific instructions will follow.
b. For example, Denon receivers have a trim adjustment range from -12dB to +12dB.
c. Trim adjustments are a tool used to achieve the goal of producing a specific SPL from each speaker / subwoofer when the system is played at reference level.
5. If the subwoofer trim level is at the maximum boost, turn up the subwoofer volume a bit and repeat step #2
6. If the subwoofer trim level is at the maximum cut, turn down the subwoofer volume a bit and repeat step #2
7. A suggestion for tweakers is to set the subwoofer trim level in the range of ±3 dB.
a. This is only a suggestion for the tweaker who likes to play around.
b. Audyssey’s position is to perform steps 4 to 6 above.

Thus, volume will affect your entire setup. Mine are coming in at about 0 across the board.

[Go Blue]

Originally Posted by aramis109

Thus, volume will affect your entire setup. Mine are coming in at about 0 across the board.

Thanks aramis, thats what I was looking for. That is why I didn't run it for a 4th time. I figured all levels at 0 was a good balance. I still raised my center a couple for quiet dialogue purposes.

[sptrout]

Originally Posted by aramis109

What? Of course it's going to change when he changes the sub levels. The sub's amplifier is independent of the receiver/what Audyssey can change. As a result, it compensates for the volume change by raising or lowering the rest of the setup. That's completely normal.

From your link:


Thus, volume will affect your entire setup. Mine are coming in at about 0 across the board.

I am sorry, but this is not correct. Audyssey sets the distances and trim levels of each speaker independent of all other speakers, including the subwoofer. The Section of the Guide you quoted is for setting the subwoofer levels only because, like you said, it has its own amp and that makes it more difficult to zero in. (BTW - - Note item 3a in the Section you copied). This whole Section of the Guide is written to help the user get the subwoofer level set somewhere near "0", but it has nothing to do with the trim levels of the other channels.

If you go to: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...95421&page=343 this issue and others are discussed by a number of posters including Chris Kyriakakis (Audyssey Founder and Chief Technology Officer, user name "audyssey").

[Go Blue]

Originally Posted by sptrout

I am sorry, but this is not correct. Audyssey sets the distances and trim levels of each speaker independent of all other speakers, including the subwoofer. The Section of the Guide you quoted is for setting the subwoofer levels only because, like you said, it has its own amp and that makes it more difficult to zero in. (BTW - - Note item 3a in the Section you copied). This whole Section of the Guide is written to help the user get the subwoofer level set somewhere near "0", but it has nothing to do with the trim levels of the other channels.

If you go to: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...95421&page=343 this issue and others are discussed by a number of posters including Chris Kyriakakis (Audyssey Founder and Chief Technology Officer, user name "audyssey").

So, what about my situation? I know for a fact, that I ran it 3 times in a row and only changed the volume on the sub to get differents readings each time.

[sptrout]

Originally Posted by schultz

So, what about my situation? I know for a fact, that I ran it 3 times in a row and only changed the volume on the sub to get differents readings each time.

I do not know why your readings are changing. You may want to either read more of the Audyssey thread at AVS, read the 605 Owners thread, or just reask your question in the Audyssey Thread. Chris "audyssey" is always very willing to answer all kinds of questions assuming some one else doesn't beat him to it.

Remember that Audyssey is setting the trim levels of each channel so that the sound at the first test point (center of listening area) is 75dB SPL ("Reference Level") for each speaker including the subwoofer. Many times the subwoofer number is way off and that is because Audyssey can only control the first amp (in the AVR) not the final amp of the series that is in the subwoofer. This is why people usually have to run Audyssey a few times to get the "relative" level reading that is in the AVR close to zero. The dB level readings as shown in your AVR are just relative numbers and really are for reference only and have very little real meaning.

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by sptrout

I am sorry, but this is not correct. Audyssey sets the distances and trim levels of each speaker independent of all other speakers, including the subwoofer. The Section of the Guide you quoted is for setting the subwoofer levels only because, like you said, it has its own amp and that makes it more difficult to zero in. (BTW - - Note item 3a in the Section you copied). This whole Section of the Guide is written to help the user get the subwoofer level set somewhere near "0", but it has nothing to do with the trim levels of the other channels.

If you go to: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...95421&page=343 this issue and others are discussed by a number of posters including Chris Kyriakakis (Audyssey Founder and Chief Technology Officer, user name "audyssey").

If it does set them independently, then why is schultz getting different settings when the only thing changed was the sub levels?

(Also funny, I see saprano over there trying to talk his way out of a similar Audyssey thread that ended up locked here.)

Anyway, while I haven't gone through that thread (ain't no way, it's 100's of pages) wouldn't it stand to reason that it's trying to set up the proper balance when played at reference levels? Thus, if my sub's volume/gain is cranked all the way up, it needs to send it a lower signal to compensate and/or balance the other speakers differently?

Personally, I just run the fool thing, tweak it slightly for personal taste, and enjoy it.

[sptrout]

Originally Posted by aramis109

If it does set them independently, then why is schultz getting different settings when the only thing changed was the sub levels?

(Also funny, I see saprano over there trying to talk his way out of a similar Audyssey thread that ended up locked here.)

Anyway, while I haven't gone through that thread (ain't no way, it's 100's of pages) wouldn't it stand to reason that it's trying to set up the proper balance when played at reference levels? Thus, if my sub's volume/gain is cranked all the way up, it needs to send it a lower signal to compensate and/or balance the other speakers differently?

Personally, I just run the fool thing, tweak it slightly for personal taste, and enjoy it.

1. I do not know why schultz is having his problems as I mentioned above.
2. The reason "saprano" was asking his questions over at AVS was because of a thread started here that had wrong information (therefore locked). (I was part of that locked thread and had posted wrong information........on this very subject.)
3. Audyssey sets each speaker/channel independently to 75dB SPL during the first sweep of measurements. It cannot fully control the subwoofer channel because it has its own separate amp as you noted, therefore, it is not unusal to see some real wierd subwoofer numbers. It typically takes a few Audyssey runs for the user to zero in the subwoofer level. The Setup Guide was written (and rewritten) to help reduce the number of reruns due to subwoofer level issues.
4. Finally, remember that Audyssey sets the speaker trims to 75dB SPL. The speaker level readings shown in the AVR are relative only and really have little to no real value except for reference (per Chris).

[talbers23]

following that guide made a tremendous difference for me.

[saprano]

Originally Posted by schultz

Hope this is the best place to post this. Yesterday I ran the Audyssey set up on my Onkyo 605 and it came up with some odd setting for the db level of each speaker. I first ran it with my sub's volume set around 1/2 and it set my sub at a -3 and my others between 0 and +3. Then I ran it with the sub's volume near the 1/4 and it set the sub to +3 and all other speakers from -2 to 0. I raised the volume on the sub a bit more and everything came back at 0db's for each speaker, including sub. What do I make of this? Does it really matter?

No it doesn't matter, audyssey is chaniging the subs level because your turning the volume nob up and down. and just to let you know, i dont know what anybody else is talking about, but the sub has NOTHING to do with what trims your speakers get. i reapeat nothing. i've ran audyssey a million times and played with my subs nob from the 12 o clock position, and half way down to the bottom. my speaker levels always end up around the same no matter what i have the sub volume at. audyssey sets each speakers trims. and your not going to get the same reading everytime even if you leave the mic in the same location.

And its not odd that your seeing those numbers, thats normal based on your room. everything must be at 75db from the listening position. the first position you run is where audyssey sets the Levels, distances, and delays. every other position it sets the crossovers and does the EQ. how many did you run?

Now who wants to argue me?

[Go Blue]

Originally Posted by saprano

No it doesn't matter, audyssey is chaniging the subs level because your turning the volume nob up and down. and just to let you know, i dont know what anybody else is talking about, but the sub has NOTHING to do with what trims your speakers get. i reapeat nothing. i've ran audyssey a million times and played with my subs nob from the 12 o clock position, and half way down to the bottom. my speaker levels always end up around the same no matter what i have the sub volume at. audyssey sets each speakers trims. and your not going to get the same reading everytime even if you leave the mic in the same location.

And its not odd that your seeing those numbers, thats normal based on your room. everything must be at 75db from the listening position. the first position you run is where audyssey sets the Levels, distances, and delays. every other position it sets the crossovers and does the EQ. how many did you run?

Now who wants to argue me?

I ran it 3 times and everytime the db levels changed slightly. The sub changed most dramatically based on the volume I had the sub at. I guess I just don't understand how changing the volume on the sub would change the db level of my fronts from -2 to 0.

[saprano]

Originally Posted by schultz

I ran it 3 times and everytime the db levels changed slightly. The sub changed most dramatically based on the volume I had the sub at. I guess I just don't understand how changing the volume on the sub would change the db level of my fronts from -2 to 0.

The sub is not doing that, your not going to get the same results everytime you run audyssey.

And what i ment was how many positions did you run.

[DerrellB]

I say tune your eq manually and leave audyssey out of the equation and get a spl meter. I turned my audyssey off on my onkyo and set the eq to maual and turned each set of hertz for all my speakers by the way I like it and low and behold my system came to life. I will never use audyssey again. A spl meter and my ear will due the eq from now on. I do this in my car setup and and always liked my results but I always was disappointed with my sound with audyssey. Switching the eq from audyssey to manual and tuning each hertz level myself was the best move I could have made. Just my opinion hope it helps.

[aramis109]

Actually, I posted that because it was relevant to this conversation and another thread about Audyssey. Relax, the internet does not revolve around you.

[HumanMedia]

Originally Posted by DerrellB

I say tune your eq manually and leave audyssey out of the equation and get a spl meter. I turned my audyssey off on my onkyo and set the eq to maual and turned each set of hertz for all my speakers by the way I like it and low and behold my system came to life. I will never use audyssey again. A spl meter and my ear will due the eq from now on. I do this in my car setup and and always liked my results but I always was disappointed with my sound with audyssey. Switching the eq from audyssey to manual and tuning each hertz level myself was the best move I could have made. Just my opinion hope it helps.

Previously I would have agreed with you, but the upgraded Audessey with dynamic EQ is better than doing it manually - greater reading accuracy and more control points than what you can enter manually.

[Go Blue]

Originally Posted by saprano

The sub is not doing that, your not going to get the same results everytime you run audyssey.

And what i ment was how many positions did you run.

I ran 3 positions, 3 times (center, left, and right).

[ryoohki]

Originally Posted by schultz

I ran 3 positions, 3 times (center, left, and right).

Well it's 0-2DB precise.. i mean the Radio Shack Analog Meter can be as sweyed as 5DB (it's readiing 75 on the reader, but it's never really that, it's 2-5DB more or less).

So it's normal to have slightly different result in the DB each time. Remember that if you change you're room and add an item, even if it's just a decoration, you should rerun the whole thing because it can change the EQ from only 1 speaker but it will do it.

Also Audyssey also correct audio lag witch play with the distance. Some sub have DSP in them that add lag into the audio. Some poeple see 24 Feet added to their sub and Panic like little girls. But it's NORMAL, the mic detected a lag in response in the sub and added distance to compensate.

I have a Denon 3808ci with Audyssey MultiEQ Xt + Dynamic EQ and i would NEVER.. EVER go back to not have it enable because seriously it sound like crap without it. This is also very variable with you're room..