help me understand x-over hz?

[liquidice]

so I re-ran my audyssey calibration last night, and got thinking about the settings as them came back after all 8 positions where recorded. It set my mains both to 150 hz, and my rear surround to 150 hz, but put my center channel (exact same speaker as my mains) to 90 hz. Now, the sub of course is at 80 hz as most usually are. Can someone put into simple terms what this all means? From what I know, the sub should only be putting out frequencies below 80 hz, but if the mains for instance are set at 150 hz, where does that freq between 150 and 80 go?...and why is my center channel at 90?...for better quality dialogue? Like I said, I just need an explanation to help me better understand. Thanks.

[ludawg23]

I'll take a stab.

150 as a x-over point is quite high. Your sub is designed for low frequency effects...150hz is not low.

I would personally just set everything to 80hz and turn your subwoofer x-over to max and let your receiver do the bass management. With an independent subwoofer, this will alleviate the stress put on your fronts and rears to produce LFE sound and re-directs it to your sub to take care of.

[jomari]

the 80-150 frequency should still be heading towards your subwoofer.

im assuming we are referring to your sub setting of 80Hz is on your sub correct? (of course, receivers wouldnt have that option now does it) with your crossover settings on the sub at 80hz, its leaving a 'gap' where you should be receiving the other frequencies. thats why i prefer to bypass the speaker crossover settings, and let the subwoofer do it for you.

if you check your manual, you can see the frequency responses for your fronts, your rear and your center speaker. at this point you should be able to determine your crossover settings.

Audyssey and their corresponding programs, are used primarily for room equalization, with it trying to assist you with the speaker setup.

here

[liquidice]

actually my sub has no setting directly on it for x-over freq. The settings for all the frequencies are on the receiver. I do have to say, the sound is truely amazing, so I'm not complaining that these settings sound bad, I'm just trying to figure out "why" did audyssey chose these settings. Interesting replies so far...

[Audiophile_At_Birth]

Originally Posted by liquidice

actually my sub has no setting directly on it for x-over freq. The settings for all the frequencies are on the receiver. I do have to say, the sound is truely amazing, so I'm not complaining that these settings sound bad, I'm just trying to figure out "why" did audyssey chose these settings. Interesting replies so far...

Audyssey isn't perfect, but it's close. It all has to do with room acoustics and how good your speakers are. If you have speakers that lack in the low end, Audyssey will try to compensate for this by setting a high crossover. Just curiousity, what kind of speakers are you running?

[jomari]

lets get your specs right.

kindly indicate what you have for your current system. from the gallery it shows you have a denon 988, but i cant see your specs for your subs.

what the reciever does is that it 'filters' out a good portion of certain frequencies lower than the crossover setting designated IN the reciever.

for example, if all speakers are set to 80hz, then anything lower than 80hz goes into the subwoofer. in your case, since you have multiple crossover points, they would go into the subwoofer. you've mentioned your crossover is set at 80hz, how? on ths subwoofer? on the receiver? if its ont he receiver, then you are missing out on any frequencies in between 80-150 causing a double crossover so to speak.

[onehothemi]

Originally Posted by ludawg23

I'll take a stab.

150 as a x-over point is quite high. Your sub is designed for low frequency effects...150hz is not low.

I would personally just set everything to 80hz and turn your subwoofer x-over to max and let your receiver do the bass management. With an independent subwoofer, this will alleviate the stress put on your fronts and rears to produce LFE sound and re-directs it to your sub to take care of.

It is my understanding, and please correct me if I am wrong, this dose not work on all receivers, where the receiver will auto negotiate the bass levels. I would HIGHLY recomend NOT doing the above. Look at it this way, the lower number in the hz range, 80 being low, 150 being high, means if you set everything to 80hz more bass will be output to your speakers instead of your sub, anything 79.999hz and below depending on the audio type and processing method, will be output to the LFE channel, giving you deeper bass, and less clean and sharp bass reproduction. Keep in mind it all depends on your receiver, speakers, wires, equipment, connection types and processing / decoding methods, speak capabilities and amp power output.

For example, on my Onkyo TX-SR606, I have medium size fronts and center, and small surrounds and rears. My fronts have a 1 1/2" tweeter, and a 3" driver, my center has 2 1" tweeters and 2 2" mid drivers, and my surrounds have 1" tweeters and 2 3/4" drivers so I have my cross overs set to 80hz for my two front speakers, and 90hz for my center, and I have my 4 surrounds and rears set to 100hz, this means the audio in the front will have some bass output to them but not too much to over drive the medium drivers, and my surrounds with smaller drivers are set to a higher frequency to offer more crisp bullet whisps and cracks yet still provide amazing music and theme reproduction when watching a movie, and this leaves my sub to drive the main bass for my rears and surrounds while not over powering and over driving my fronts and center.

The THX standard is 80hz for all channels other than LFE, and LFE set to 67hz or depending on the driver and type of sub. The 80hz idea is great if your speakers can handle the bass reproduction, the last thing you want to do is send too much bass to small driver speakers and blow the speaker. Tweeters are really difficult to blow in my opinion unless a rediclous amount of bass is sent to them, however it happens, and its better to look up the manufacture's specifications on your speakers so you know the range and abilities of your equipment. I used the Audessey to calibrate all my speakers and then went back into the menu and tweaked the speaker distance using a measuring tape, and adjusted speaker levels and cross over frequency's to my desired settings. I also went thru and changed the bass and treble levels to slightly lower on the bass and slightly higher on the treb but that is really personal prefference.

So if for example you have tall full size front left and right standing speakers with a large driver and medium size tweeter like a Polk or other speaker I'd set those to 80hz, if you have small fronts / center set them to 100hz, and rears / surounds to 100 / 120hz depending on their size, for example like a boss system style tiny cube speaker I'd go with 120hz, which is what I think Boss does, they set every speaker to really high hz levels and build a loud ported bass unit to fill in what the speakers don't output, which is why in my opinion boss lifestyle systems suck, so go medium, with the hz levels and put your hand to the speaker, if they are vibrating too much or outputting to much bass raise the hz level to protect your speaker.

How's that sound?

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by liquidice

so I re-ran my audyssey calibration last night, and got thinking about the settings as them came back after all 8 positions where recorded. It set my mains both to 150 hz, and my rear surround to 150 hz, but put my center channel (exact same speaker as my mains) to 90 hz. Now, the sub of course is at 80 hz as most usually are. Can someone put into simple terms what this all means? From what I know, the sub should only be putting out frequencies below 80 hz, but if the mains for instance are set at 150 hz, where does that freq between 150 and 80 go?...and why is my center channel at 90?...for better quality dialogue? Like I said, I just need an explanation to help me better understand. Thanks.

• Three identical speakers do not behave the same in a small home theater room that is not acousically treated. Room interaction affect all speakers.
• You should set the crossovers yourself and forget about Audyssey. Audyssey sets the channel levels and does some basic eqaulization for room correction. Audyssey does not usually do a good job with crossovers.
• The crossover setting for the subwoofer is a Low Pass setting. This means that all frequencies BELOW the crossover point will go to the subwoofer and the rest will not.
• The crossover settings for the other speakers are High Pass settings. This means that all frequencies ABOVE the crossover settings will go to the speakers and the rest will go to the subwoofer.
• If you set the High Pass crossover of your fronts or surrounds to 150Hz and the Low Pass setting of the subwoofer to 80Hz, you will create an Audio Hole. The crossover filter for the speakers will reject signals below 150Hz and sends them to the subwoofer. The subwoofer will accept frequencies below 80Hz and rejects the frequencies between 80Hz and 150Hz. Where do they go? Look in your laundry machine. They are there with all the socks you have lost over the years.
• The crossover settings are not precise cut-off points and have gradual slopes. Therefore, the crossover setting of the subwoofer should be at least as high or higher than the highest crossover frequencies of the speakers.
• There is another problem. Bass sound above 100Hz to 120Hz tends to become directional.

This is my recommendation:

• On the back of the subwoofer, set the crossover all the way up to its maximum point. The crossover for the subwoofer is set in the receiver. You want the subwoofer to accept all the frequencies that the receiver sends to it. In a way, you can say that modern receivers have made the crossover setting dial on the back of the subwoofer obsolete.
• Set all your speakers to small.
• If your speakers do not have good low frequency response, set their crossover frequency to 90Hz to 100Hz.
• Set the crossover frequency of the subwoofer to at least as high as the 100Hz.
• Don't be afraid to experiment. The correct settings are what sounds the best to you.

Read A Guide to Crossover Networks & Crossover Settings and don't forget to send a nasty letter to Audyssey.

[JasonR]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

• Three identical speakers do not behave the same in a small home theater room that is not acousically treated. Room interaction affect all speakers.
• You should set the crossovers yourself and forget about Audyssey. Audyssey sets the channel levels and does some basic eqaulization for room correction. Audyssey does not usually do a good job with crossovers.
• The crossover setting for the subwoofer is a Low Pass setting. This means that all frequencies BELOW the crossover point will go to the subwoofer and the rest will not.
• The crossover settings for the other speakers are High Pass settings. This means that all frequencies ABOVE the crossover settings will go to the speakers and the rest will go to the subwoofer.
• If you set the High Pass crossover of your fronts or surrounds to 150Hz and the Low Pass setting of the subwoofer to 80Hz, you will create an Audio Hole. The crossover filter for the speakers will reject signals below 150Hz and sends them to the subwoofer. The subwoofer will accept frequencies below 80Hz and rejects the frequencies between 80Hz and 150Hz. Where do they go? Look in your laundry machine. They are there with all the socks you have lost over the years.
• The crossover settings are not precise cut-off points and have gradual slopes. Therefore, the crossover setting of the subwoofer should be at least as high or higher than the highest crossover frequencies of the speakers.
• There is another problem. Bass sound above 100Hz to 120Hz tends to become directional.

This is my recommendation:

• On the back of the subwoofer, set the crossover all the way up to its maximum point. The crossover for the subwoofer is set in the receiver. You want the subwoofer to accept all the frequencies that the receiver sends to it. In a way, you can say that modern receivers have made the crossover setting dial on the back of the subwoofer obsolete.
• Set all your speakers to small.
• If your speakers do not have good low frequency response, set their crossover frequency to 90Hz to 100Hz.
• Set the crossover frequency of the subwoofer to at least as high as the 100Hz.
• Don't be afraid to experiment. The correct settings are what sounds the best to you.

Read A Guide to Crossover Networks & Crossover Settings and don't forget to send a nasty letter to Audyssey.

BD, this is a great post. I think it should be added to your sticky!

LPF of LFE on Onkyo receivers can be very confusing to a new user.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by JasonR

BD, this is a great post. I think it should be added to your sticky!

LPF of LFE on Onkyo receivers can be very confusing to a new user.

Thanks. This is covered in a section at the end of the sticky. I can probably add a few more clarifying sentences.

[MSG2007]

What about klipsch synergy quintet lll's with a sub-10?

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by MSG2007

What about klipsch synergy quintet lll's with a sub-10?

You do have a problem. The Sub 10's frequency response is 28Hz-120Hz and the frequency response of the satellites is 120Hz-23kHz. It is a question of putting too much pressure on the sub or on the satellite speakers.

My suggestion is set all your speakers to small and set the crossover to 120Hz. If the sub begins to behave badly, change the crossover to 100Hz. You have to judge the quality of the sound yourself. Do not turn the volume too high.

Eventually, you should upgrade your speakers to something that has a bit better low fequency extension.