Speaker wire! Worthy upgrade?

[Johnny Vinyl]

In my opinion the answer is absolutely and unequivocably YES!

I see a lot of discussion about the quality of HDMI, Optical and some componant interconnects, but rarely is the subject of my post discussed.

I wanted to bring this to the forefront, because IMHO I beleive that one of the best bangs for your buck is to upgrade ALL of your speaker wire. With a decent setup (componants not HTIB) you will hear an immediate improvement in sound quality and clarity!

I personally beleive that your speaker wire should be roughly 10%-15% of your speaker cost.

I'd love to hear your opinion(s) on this matter and look forward to a lively discussion!

[bhampton]

Hey,

I made my own out of Auto-Motive jumper cables.

I think they are good enough.

(Sorry,.. just kidding...)

-Brian

[Pelican170]

Originally Posted by KingLeerUK

Unless you are coming from 22 gauge "in the box" wires I don't think upgrading your wiring will yield an appreciable difference on most consumer systems.

I agree. Unless you have some super serious receiver and speaker, but most people are talking Onkyo's and such...

[Intamin]

I would agree with the op. While guage is not as huge of a factor, I do believe the quality of components used in the wire will make a difference. I myself could easily hear the improvement in sound quality when I went from crappy best buy dynex cable to Audioquest cable.

[twoboyz]

I went from using 12g wire to Monster M2.2 cables and there was a difference in bass responce. I do belive that the clarity of the sound is better but only at higher volumes.
EQUIPMENT

DENON AVR4308CI
DENON DVD3930CI
PIONEER ELITE BDP 95FD
SAMSUNG 5084 1080P
DEF TECH BP 7002's, CLR 2500, UIW BPZ/A (2), UIW 94/A (2)
RICHARD GRAYS s600 POWER CONDITIONER
MONSTER HTS 5100 MK2

[richteer]

Originally Posted by John72953

In my opinion the answer is absolutely and unequivocably YES!

I see a lot of discussion about the quality of HDMI, Optical and some componant interconnects, but rarely is the subject of my post discussed.

I wanted to bring this to the forefront, because IMHO I beleive that one of the best bangs for your buck is to upgrade ALL of your speaker wire. With a decent setup (componants not HTIB) you will hear an immediate improvement in sound quality and clarity!

I personally beleive that your speaker wire should be roughly 10%-15% of your speaker cost.

I'd love to hear your opinion(s) on this matter and look forward to a lively discussion!

Strongly agree. Like many tweaks, upgrading one's speaker cable won't make much (if any) difference if the rest of the system is wanting, but if the main components are OK, upgrading speaker cables (and the rest) can be a worthwhile improvement.

Your figure of 10% - 15% is about right, too. Buying $2000 of Nordost speaker cables is nuts if you have only $500 speakers! Similarly, using $20 of some random brand 14 guage cable for a $4000 speaker system is also nuts. Long term, any way. Most people need to save for these things, so "making do" with cheap cables while saving for decent ones is fine.

I'm in this very situation myself: the cable connecting my PrimaLuna Prologue 7 monoblocks to my Spendor SP1/2 speakers is uninteresting QED stuff from the UK (though a step or two above their ubiquitous "79 Strand"). I'm saving up for a set of Nordost Frey interconnects and speaker cables, and that won't be cheap...

[Barnum]

Originally Posted by twoboyz

I went from using 12g wire to Monster M2.2 cables and there was a difference in bass responce. I do belive that the clarity of the sound is better but only at higher volumes.
EQUIPMENT

DENON AVR4308CI
DENON DVD3930CI
PIONEER ELITE BDP 95FD
SAMSUNG 5084 1080P
DEF TECH BP 7002's, CLR 2500, UIW BPZ/A (2), UIW 94/A (2)
RICHARD GRAYS s600 POWER CONDITIONER
MONSTER HTS 5100 MK2

That is the area that you will see the difference. The lows suffer with ceap speaker wire. I see to many people use that thin wire (some call it zip wire) with speakers. Big mistake. Nice setup there by the way. I have the 3808ci and love it.

I've never heard the Def Tech speakers did you compare them with B&W's? I am just curious what you compared to. I have the B&W 600 series and love them.

[jomari]

i do agree on the speaker wire recommendation. although i believe that 16 gauge or larger is definitely a good idea to start with.

think of it as a hose. The bigger the hose gauge, the better response and lesser resistance than a smaller one.

[twoboyz]

I compared them to the B&W 600 series side by side and the High end polk LSi series. I am probably 90% movies and during movie playback the Def Techs were by far the best. For music playback I thought the LSi series were better. But because I watch more movies the DT's were the best choice. Plus I do not need a sub with these. They are cabable of below 20Hz with there built in 300 watt 12" subs. They are awesome for movie playback.

[JJ]

It also works with HTiBs, believe it or not - on my previous sound setup, I used a Samsung HT-TX75 HTiB that came with prepackaged 22 AWG wire - when I upgraded it to 12 (monoprice wire though) - it was a notable difference in sound clarity. More crisp, and less of that annoying audio pop I got from time to time with it.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by KingLeerUK

In this example going from a 22g to a 12g wire will make a difference simply because the resistance of the wire is reduced. However, comparing one 12g wire to another 12g (apples to apples) there will not be a great deal of difference for the average consumer configuration. Now, if you have esoteric amplifiers or speakers that require a specific wire capacitance/resistance, then yes, a wire upgrade may yield an minor improvement in sound and amplifier performance/stability.

Anyone who says "I had x-brand 12g speaker wires and upgraded to y-brand and it's like night and day!" is either hearing their investment (and not the actual sound) or had some sort of configuration issue with their connectivity (oxidised contacts, loose connections, etc.) that was manifesting in the audio signal.

I agree...it's the difference in gauge where the benefits show thru. However, at the higher end of the scale there can be differences between various build qualities. Most consumers cannot hear these minute differences.

In general however, I think this is an accurate statement by KingLeerUK

[jomari]

Perception begets reality at this point.

[richteer]

Originally Posted by John72953

I agree...it's the difference in gauge where the benefits show thru. However, at the higher end of the scale there can be differences between various build qualities. Most consumers cannot hear these minute differences.

I disagree. Most consumers don't think the differences that they hear are worth the extra expense. (Those with truely crappy gear will, of course, probably not be able to hear the difference.) I agree that most consumers think that they won't be able to hear a difference--much to their bemusement when they listen to a good system!

[DJeffries]

Originally Posted by John72953

I agree...it's the difference in gauge where the benefits show thru. However, at the higher end of the scale there can be differences between various build qualities. Most consumers cannot hear these minute differences.

It’s not so much a matter of build quality as it is that some manufacturers alter RLC parameters to the point of becoming significant. This can be done by using fancy dielectrics or conductor separation, passive filtering devices in-line, and/or active devices in-line. At this point the wire becomes a tone control in addition to transmitting the signal. You typically have to spend a small fortune for this distortion.
Most manufactures keep RLC parameters small enough that as long as a sufficient gauge wire is used the loss difference between brand X and brand Y will be from milli to micro dBs throughout the entire human audible frequency range. Nobody with less than four legs will be able to hear that. This is not to say the some very cheap wire will not oxidize prematurely resulting in audible losses. But there is no audible need to spend a fortune on wire.

[saprano]

When you say oxidize you mean when the wire turns color?

i have monoprice 12g wire's and they all changed dark in color. is that bad? with that said should i change all of my wire's? is there a better brand than monoprice were that doesn't happen? i have definitive technology pro cinema speakers.

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by saprano

When you say oxidize you mean when the wire turns color?

i have monoprice 12g wire's and they all changed dark in color. is that bad? with that said should i change all of my wire's? is there a better brand than monoprice were that doesn't happen? i have definitive technology pro cinema speakers.

If you have enough slack (which you should) you should just cut off an inch from each side, and start with fresh ends of the wire........ no need to buy new wires....

[saprano]

Oh really? only the end parts? so is the color change bad? the whole wire turned dark. fronts and surrounds.

[canonbomb1987]

Originally Posted by saprano

Oh really? only the end parts? so is the color change bad? the whole wire turned dark. fronts and surrounds.

thats just the oxygen oxidizing the copper in the wire. like others have said just cut off the end and strip a new piece. if the whole wire is dark the you might need to replace the whole thing. If thats the case then try getting the OFC (oxygen free copper) speaker wire, that should last longer.

[saprano]

So when it turns dark does it affects the sound? and monoprice is oxygen free, dont no how long though.

[bageleaterkkjji]

i bought 12g wire from monoprice 2 but anyone with onkyo ht750b speakers or the htib sp908 with the same speakers know if the wire will fit in the speakers? lol