Warner Brothers and missed opportunities - Page 5 - Blu-ray Forum

milou6 · 07-14-2008, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhafner

I'm rather sure that 100 out of 100 people with normal vision can tell apart without problems Patton as is and without DNR on a display/screen of suitable size. I'm equally sure that very few if any ouf of 100 can tell two versions of the same soundtrack apart in a double blind test on high end equipment in a good room: Uncompressed 24 bit and DTS 1.5 Mbit/s 16 bit.

In the absence of a comparison most people think DD sounds great. How many people plug their ipods with horribly compressed music into their stereos and don't even notice that it sounds like garbage? My in-laws still get annoyed with me when I go to set-up and change audio tracks (DVD or BD), because those fews seconds of delay for them aren't worth the increase in quality.

My point here is not to disagree but that it comes again to the education of the user.

Ferris · 07-14-2008, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milou6

In the absence of a comparison most people think DD sounds great. How many people plug their ipods with horribly compressed music into their stereos and don't even notice that it sounds like garbage? My in-laws still get annoyed with me when I go to set-up and change audio tracks (DVD or BD), because those fews seconds of delay for them aren't worth the increase in quality.

My point here is not to disagree but that it comes again to the education of the user.

Very, very well said. There are many folks out there, believe it or not, who have very old receivers, or even none at all. These folks are more than content with the tools they have, even if they're 2 - 3 generations ago. The adage "Ignorance is bliss" comes to mind. Now, I'm not saying the audiophiles should quiet down or stop fighting for the best. What I'm saying is, we should all stop and recognize that not everyone has the supreme new-age THX-certified set-up for audio. So the "everyone knows" thought should really disappear, in my opinion.

HeavyHitter · 07-14-2008, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

There is no possible way that LOTR will ship with lossy audio

How confident are you for LOTR that we will get a Blu-ray optimization encode and not a small VC-1 encoded file at 13mbs?

Woody · 07-14-2008, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

How confident are you for LOTR that we will get a Blu-ray optimization encode and not a small VC-1 encoded file at 13kbs?

Why wouldn't we? If it isn't Blu-ray optimized, what exactly would it be optimized for?

And I see nothing indicating WB will stop using VC1.

WickyWoo · 07-14-2008, 02:59 PM

Quote:

How confident are you for LOTR that we will get a Blu-ray optimization encode and not a small VC-1 encoded file at 13mbs?

Reply hazy, ask again much later and much closer to actual release date (2010ish)

HeavyHitter · 07-14-2008, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woody

If it isn't Blu-ray optimized, what exactly would it be optimized for?

Uhhh...That was my point. I was using the VC-1 as a typical Warner example it seems these days.

Mr. Cinema · 07-14-2008, 07:22 PM

This is in regards to the specs announced for L.A. Confidential. For whatever reason, WB has chosen to put this 138 minute feature with TrueHD audio and 90 minutes of extras all on a BD-25.

By comparison, Sony is using BD-50s for both I Know What You Did Last Summer (104 minutes, TrueHD, very few features) and Urban Legend (99 minutes, TrueHD, 10-minute featurette).

Why a BD-25 from WB?

bykes · 07-15-2008, 06:50 AM

I just watched Batman Begins. I gotta say Fox, Sony and Disney do a much better job at the transfer. Who agrees?

BirdManJr · 07-15-2008, 07:11 AM

i have i am legend & batman begins
both wb
And i have to say they both look very good on my 52 "lcd

My only gripe is...when you open the case theres nothing...at least some blu rays have a insert of the movie..or some artwork....
i dunno..guess when i pay that much i expect at least what the dvd had to offer on the inside....

vegeta88 · 07-15-2008, 07:49 AM

Another little thing is on WB BD I have have the painted logo rather than the in-depth logo. Not a big problem, I just like the in-depth one. And I agree about the movie artwork inside.

Petra_Kalbrain · 07-15-2008, 09:40 AM

Over the last couple of months, Warner titles that have only been released on Blu-ray habe been great because they are getting the proper encodes done on them. Titles like 'V For Vendetta' and 'Batman Begins' are titles that have already been released on HD DVD and thus have been ported over. Although I don't like what they are doing, I can understand why they are doing it. Is it worth the $$$ for them to restart the process from scratch? Certainly not. From a business perspective they would have a hard time breaking even on the title. But, keep in mind too that they are offering these titles at much better prices than their competitors because of the port factor. Both 'V For Vendetta' and 'Batman Begins' were available for $18.95 and/or $19.95 from day one that they were available. Every other studio is asking $27.95 or more per title.

Grubert · 07-15-2008, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema

This is in regards to the specs announced for L.A. Confidential. For whatever reason, WB has chosen to put this 138 minute feature with TrueHD audio and 90 minutes of extras all on a BD-25.

By comparison, Sony is using BD-50s for both I Know What You Did Last Summer (104 minutes, TrueHD, very few features) and Urban Legend (99 minutes, TrueHD, 10-minute featurette).

Why a BD-25 from WB?

Only a BD25 for L.A. Confidential? That's insane. I hope it is an error.

Maxell · 07-15-2008, 10:18 AM

The newer WB titles look alot better than old. Batman Begins is part of the old as it is the same film put onto hddvd (without the prologue).

mhafner · 07-15-2008, 01:42 PM

I'm not against lossless sounds at all. From my experience with my high end equipment (which is fully digital right into the speakers which are digital active) I know that well done measly 16 bit uncompressed PCM sounds incredibly good once the whole chain is optimised for the source and all unnecessary conversions and room influence is accounted for. Because of that I don't care much if I get 16 bit or 24 bit as long as the 16 bit are optimally derived from the 24 bit. Much more relevant is the quality of the stems and how they are mixed. Concerning lossless versus lossy I don't have firm opinions concerning high bit rate lossy but if you believe professional sound mixers like FilmMixer over at AVS the difference between lossy DTS at 1.5 Mbit/s and uncompressed is small even in professional mixing rooms. Given the nature of most sountracks with their sound effects and totally artificially created sound spaces that is more than understandable.

NJ_RAMS_FAN · 07-15-2008, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vegeta88

Another little thing is on WB BD I have have the painted logo rather than the in-depth logo. Not a big problem, I just like the in-depth one. And I agree about the movie artwork inside.

i replaced those cases..lol.. i can't stand the printed logo..

bykes · 07-15-2008, 01:56 PM

Maybe I should pick up another Warner title to change my mind. I guess I've just been spoiled by Disney, Sony and Fox.

Moefiz · 07-15-2008, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bykes

Maybe I should pick up another Warner title to change my mind. I guess I've just been spoiled by Disney, Sony and Fox.

Pick up I Am Legend you can get it for under 20, you won't be disapointed with the SQ and PQ.

lgans316 · 07-15-2008, 02:22 PM

Now I am beginning to truly trust the gains brought by lossless audio. I compared the DTS-HD MA track on Aviator (Dutch Import) vs the lossy DD track on Aviator (Warner - U.S

) and the difference is night and day. Every element of the sound mix was brought to life. Even the TV speakers were good enough to discern the difference.

milou6 · 07-15-2008, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lgans316

Now I am beginning to truly trust the gains brought by lossless audio. I compared the DTS-HD MA track on Aviator (Dutch Import) vs the lossy DD track on Aviator (Warner - U.S

) and the difference is night and day. Every element of the sound mix was brought to life. Even the TV speakers were good enough to discern the difference.

What's the bitrate on the DD? If it's 340 then I imagine it's royally compressed.

That is why people like me who can't yet get lossless on their systems love DTS lossless, since the core DTS track is 1.5 and can sound extremely good and plays on legacy equipment.

othello26 · 07-15-2008, 03:00 PM

I would say that the picture quality is excellent for most WB films. The sound is good. Although, I would say that in certain films - such as I am Legend and Batman Begins - the dialogue in the film is very low so you have to turn the volume up a little bit. Then the action scenes are real loud, so you have to turn the volume down a tad. I wish there was a perfect balance between the sound of the dialogue and action scenes.
Also, the sound on the Prologue from the BB BD is extremely low. I remember when I saw I am Legend in Imax last year and they showed the prologue. The first scene when the robbers shoot the grappling hook out of the window the bass was extraordinary. But when I turned the bass up on my sound system, theres like... no bass. The picture quality and the sound clarity is good though I must say, as blu ray should be.

I can't wait for the day when little nuances like sound is perfected on Bluray in due time. In my opinion, all BD should have VC-1 or MPeg-4 encoding with either 5.1 umcompressed audio or TrueHd/DTS. The price should be $19.99 and loaded with special features.
Some BD are already like this, but I think they ALL should be.

BD 4 life!!

I got my Imax tickets for TDK!!!!! Can't wait!

07-15-2008, 06:50 AM	#88
bykes Active Member Member since:Feb 2007	Is it just me or does WB suck at Blu-ray? I just watched Batman Begins. I gotta say Fox, Sony and Disney do a much better job at the transfer. Who agrees?

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07-14-2008, 07:22 PM	#87
Mr. Cinema Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jan 2008 Location:NC 4K collection:34 Blu-ray collection:35 Blu-ray reviews:1 Trading Score:85	This is in regards to the specs announced for L.A. Confidential. For whatever reason, WB has chosen to put this 138 minute feature with TrueHD audio and 90 minutes of extras all on a BD-25. By comparison, Sony is using BD-50s for both I Know What You Did Last Summer (104 minutes, TrueHD, very few features) and Urban Legend (99 minutes, TrueHD, 10-minute featurette). Why a BD-25 from WB?

07-15-2008, 07:11 AM	#89
BirdManJr Power Member Member since:Mar 2008 Blu-ray reviews:3	i have i am legend & batman begins both wb And i have to say they both look very good on my 52 "lcd My only gripe is...when you open the case theres nothing...at least some blu rays have a insert of the movie..or some artwork.... i dunno..guess when i pay that much i expect at least what the dvd had to offer on the inside....

07-15-2008, 07:49 AM	#90
vegeta88 Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Nov 2007 Location:CA 4K collection:94 Blu-ray collection:666 DVD collection:116 Blu-ray reviews: 6 Trading Score:1	Another little thing is on WB BD I have have the painted logo rather than the in-depth logo. Not a big problem, I just like the in-depth one. And I agree about the movie artwork inside.

07-15-2008, 09:40 AM	#91
Petra_Kalbrain Blu-ray Archduke Top contributor Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Vancouver, BC 4K collection:5 Blu-ray collection:561 Blu-ray reviews:3 Trading Score:20	Over the last couple of months, Warner titles that have only been released on Blu-ray habe been great because they are getting the proper encodes done on them. Titles like 'V For Vendetta' and 'Batman Begins' are titles that have already been released on HD DVD and thus have been ported over. Although I don't like what they are doing, I can understand why they are doing it. Is it worth the $$$ for them to restart the process from scratch? Certainly not. From a business perspective they would have a hard time breaking even on the title. But, keep in mind too that they are offering these titles at much better prices than their competitors because of the port factor. Both 'V For Vendetta' and 'Batman Begins' were available for $18.95 and/or $19.95 from day one that they were available. Every other studio is asking $27.95 or more per title.

07-15-2008, 10:18 AM	#93
Maxell Expert Member Member since:Aug 2007	The newer WB titles look alot better than old. Batman Begins is part of the old as it is the same film put onto hddvd (without the prologue).

07-15-2008, 01:42 PM	#94
mhafner Banned Member since:Jul 2007	I'm not against lossless sounds at all. From my experience with my high end equipment (which is fully digital right into the speakers which are digital active) I know that well done measly 16 bit uncompressed PCM sounds incredibly good once the whole chain is optimised for the source and all unnecessary conversions and room influence is accounted for. Because of that I don't care much if I get 16 bit or 24 bit as long as the 16 bit are optimally derived from the 24 bit. Much more relevant is the quality of the stems and how they are mixed. Concerning lossless versus lossy I don't have firm opinions concerning high bit rate lossy but if you believe professional sound mixers like FilmMixer over at AVS the difference between lossy DTS at 1.5 Mbit/s and uncompressed is small even in professional mixing rooms. Given the nature of most sountracks with their sound effects and totally artificially created sound spaces that is more than understandable.

07-15-2008, 01:56 PM	#96
bykes Active Member Member since:Feb 2007	Maybe I should pick up another Warner title to change my mind. I guess I've just been spoiled by Disney, Sony and Fox.

07-15-2008, 02:22 PM	#98
lgans316 Blu-ray Baron Member since:Jul 2007 Location:RM16, United Kingdom Blu-ray reviews:17 Trading Score:498	Now I am beginning to truly trust the gains brought by lossless audio. I compared the DTS-HD MA track on Aviator (Dutch Import) vs the lossy DD track on Aviator (Warner - U.S ) and the difference is night and day. Every element of the sound mix was brought to life. Even the TV speakers were good enough to discern the difference.

07-15-2008, 03:00 PM	#100
othello26 Member Member since:May 2007 Blu-ray reviews:1	I would say that the picture quality is excellent for most WB films. The sound is good. Although, I would say that in certain films - such as I am Legend and Batman Begins - the dialogue in the film is very low so you have to turn the volume up a little bit. Then the action scenes are real loud, so you have to turn the volume down a tad. I wish there was a perfect balance between the sound of the dialogue and action scenes. Also, the sound on the Prologue from the BB BD is extremely low. I remember when I saw I am Legend in Imax last year and they showed the prologue. The first scene when the robbers shoot the grappling hook out of the window the bass was extraordinary. But when I turned the bass up on my sound system, theres like... no bass. The picture quality and the sound clarity is good though I must say, as blu ray should be. I can't wait for the day when little nuances like sound is perfected on Bluray in due time. In my opinion, all BD should have VC-1 or MPeg-4 encoding with either 5.1 umcompressed audio or TrueHd/DTS. The price should be $19.99 and loaded with special features. Some BD are already like this, but I think they ALL should be. BD 4 life!! I got my Imax tickets for TDK!!!!! Can't wait!

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