Warner Brothers and missed opportunities

[HDJK]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

...
And as Gary said above, there's the storage space and bandwidth for high resolution lossless audio, so lets leave lossy behind.

And since this is a fact I think that's all there is to it. There is no excuse not to provide a lossless track, placebo effect or not.

[Grubert]

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

What Kris said. Most people don't have gear to reproduce it anyway.

Most people don't have gear to reproduce 1080p. Yet, Blu-ray offers 1080p video anyway.


And, if I may say so, most people don't have gear to notice the picture filtering on Patton anyway.

We are going beyond the 720p 37" & sound over TV speakers crowd, right?

Disney has been 100% lossless since September 2006.
Fox has been 100% lossless since November 2006.
Lionsgate has been 100% lossless since June 2007.
Sony has been 100% lossless since June 2006.

Paramount and Universal are also doing 100% lossless.

Warner is the only studio not to use lossless across the board. Yet we are making excuses for them.

This reminds me of when Criterion were so late supporting anamorphic enhancement for DVD, yet so many people at enthusiasts forums were making excuses for them because their editions were so good otherwise (and probably out of Laserdisc gratitude).

[Bullseye]

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

What Kris said. Most people don't have gear to reproduce it anyway.

Is there a difference?

Yes.

Is it a Yugo to a Veyron?

Don't think so.

RAH

Robert the same could be said about DNR. Most domestic dwellings do not have the gear to tell the difference.

[lgans316]

Well said Grubert. I initially thought they were offering good stuffs on the AV front but after comparing the AV efforts put by other Studios I fully realized that we were being shortchanged. IMO Warner have made Blu-ray fall prey to their lab experiments that comprised half-assed low bit rate VC-1 encodes and lossy audio.

[jw]

Originally Posted by BirdManJr

i have i am legend & batman begins
both wb
And i have to say they both look very good on my 52 "lcd

My only gripe is...when you open the case theres nothing...at least some blu rays have a insert of the movie..or some artwork....
i dunno..guess when i pay that much i expect at least what the dvd had to offer on the inside....

what do you want? a stick of gum? some gummy bears
Even DVDs dont contain inner literature anymore, I guess they have seen its a waste of money

[neo_reloaded]

Originally Posted by lgans316

Well said Grubert. I initially thought they were offering good stuffs on the AV front but after comparing the AV efforts put by other Studios I fully realized that we were being shortchanged.

Oy.

Anyway, my point never was that we shouldn't have lossless on every title - I said as much right in my post. I just tried to put things in context and ask for a stop of the "ugh lossy so horrible, abomination, personal insult, etc." nonsense that seems to invade so many threads. Of course then people pick and choose quotes to make it look like I'm saying lossy is "good enough" and we should be satisfied, which is never what I said.

WB knows we want lossless, and all the insiders here know we want lossless, and the forum in general is WELL AWARE of what members feel strongly about lossless. If you feel the need to gripe, write letters to WB expressing your disappointment over title X or whatever.

[Arecsa]

Originally Posted by neo_reloaded

WB knows we want lossless, and all the insiders here know we want lossless, and the forum in general is WELL AWARE of what members feel strongly about lossless.

I'd hope so by now, it's only been at least a year of us asking for it. They are still the only studio who can't consistently get things right though. If it's not the audio it's the overly DNR'd transfer or their single layer obsession. LA Confidential, 138 minutes long with TrueHD on a 25gb Blu-ray, along with all of the extras they are trying to cram in there? No thanks.

And now with Warner assuming control over New Line's releases we lose out on their 7.1 DTS HD MA tracks, just fantastic. Blow with a 5.1 Dolby Digital track? I really hope that isn't correct.

[Grubert]

Lots of posts from the Penton-Man thread copied over here.

[Grubert]

thedigitalbits says that Speed Racer will be a BD25 with no lossless audio:

Here's some official details for Warner's Speed Racer, set to debut on DVD and Blu-ray Disc on 9/16.

[...]

Unfortunately, we've confirmed that the Blu-ray is a BD-25 with just Dolby Digital 5.1 audio rather than TrueHD, which is a real shame. If ever a film deserved BD-50/TrueHD treatment on Blu-ray, it's this one. I suppose, however, in light of how badly the film tanked, it shouldn't be unexpected.

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents

[blukrank]

Originally Posted by Grubert

thedigitalbits says that Speed Racer will be a BD25 with no lossless audio:



http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents

That sucks!

[Hep]

Originally Posted by Grubert

thedigitalbits says that Speed Racer will be a BD25 with no lossless audio

Unbelieveable! I'm speechless.

[aramis109]

Well, with that I don't really have anything to say. It's bad enough to do it with the HD-DVD ports, but this is a new title that they have time to do correctly. Personally I've not seen the movie, but I see no reason not to have lossless.

Warner has been really disappointing of late.

[Anthony P]

But I strongly disagree with the ranting and raving about how all lossy tracks are abominations. Did you people simply not view movies (both at home and in the cinema) until Blu-ray was released?

this does not make sense. Did you watch movies before DVD was released? does that mean DVD should not have been better? Did people watch movies before colour movies? does this mean we don't need better then BW? did people not watch movies before talkies? silent movies are good enough.

Technology improves. Obviously man kind has existed for thousands of years, but why should we live in caves throwing sticks just because there was a time when mankind did not have anything better at the time. Yes there was a time when we did not have the tech needed for lossless audio for movies on disks. Now the tech is here and it is easy and there is no reason not to ask for it. (also applies to better video transfers for Warner).

If I though DVD was good enough I would not have bought a BD player in 2006 and I would not be rebuying titles I already owned on DVD.

[Octavio]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

this does not make sense. Did you watch movies before DVD was released? does that mean DVD should not have been better? Did people watch movies before colour movies? does this mean we don't need better then BW? did people not watch movies before talkies? silent movies are good enough.

Epic Fail!

Several silent films are much better than 99% of the Talkies (Chaplin, Buster Keaton, Murnau, Fritz Lang... anyone?). It's not about being "Talkie" or "silent" it's about being a GOOD movie!


Color better than B&W? Well that statement is at least "arguably". Some movies just looks better on B&W but since currently most people simply won't watch any B&W movie because they have this misconception about being "technically inferior", just few new releases are in B&W

But can you tell me if Casablanca, Raging Bull, Citizen Kane, Manhattan, La haine, Schindler's List, Sin City, The Last Picture Show, Psycho, Down by Law, Some Like it Hot, and tons more would be BETTER movies if shot in color????


Seems some people thinks EVERY movie should look and sound like a Video Game! Otherwise they must be labeled as "inferior products"

[neo_reloaded]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

this does not make sense. Did you watch movies before DVD was released? does that mean DVD should not have been better? Did people watch movies before colour movies? does this mean we don't need better then BW? did people not watch movies before talkies? silent movies are good enough.

Technology improves. Obviously man kind has existed for thousands of years, but why should we live in caves throwing sticks just because there was a time when mankind did not have anything better at the time. Yes there was a time when we did not have the tech needed for lossless audio for movies on disks. Now the tech is here and it is easy and there is no reason not to ask for it. (also applies to better video transfers for Warner).

If I though DVD was good enough I would not have bought a BD player in 2006 and I would not be rebuying titles I already owned on DVD.

I honestly don't know what to say. The rest of my post was saying that I 100% agree that lossless should be on all titles. God forbid I add some additional info to try to put things in perspective - that must mean I'm the enemy, right?

I never said don't ask for it. I never said we shouldn't expect it. I actually suggested writing letters to Warner Bros., which is probably the most productive thing you can do as an individual at this point. All I did was add some context to the situation, to show how humorous it is when people gripe about lossy tracks like they were some completely unlistenable chicken-scratch. How you extrapolated that to make it look like I'm saying DVD is good enough and technological advances are bad is completely beyond me.

And of course, your examples of black & white and silent films are completely inapplicable to the situation here.

[Octavio]

Originally Posted by neo_reloaded

I honestly don't know what to say. The rest of my post was saying that I 100% agree that lossless should be on all titles. God forbid I add some additional info to try to put things in perspective - that must mean I'm the enemy, right?

And of course, your examples of black & white and silent films are completely inapplicable to the situation here.

I understand you totally. Seems some dudes considers it's a sacrilege to say that old movies originally recorded in mono that are all dialogue-driven are not going to sound MUCH better even if they are encoded in a lossless format.

If you dare to say that, they immediately will yell out sth like: Stick to DVD's then!

Take it easy! I want my BD's looking and sounding the best they could look and sound. But I am not gonna discart movies like "The Searchers" just because it doesn't have a Dolby TrueHD 5.1 track!

I am afraid many will bash titles like Casablanca if the BD comes only with a DD+ Mono track as the HD-DVD, regardless if the PQ is amazing...

Honestly I prefer lossless over lossy any given day, but most titles shot before the 80's doesn't really take full advantage of lossless formats, therefore at most sounds slightly better than the former DD mix.


But some people are more papists than the Pope...

[Arecsa]

HA! Speed Racer on a single layer with only DD 5.1. Now that is classic Warner right there.

Hilarious, keep up the awesome job Warner!

[DetroitSportsFan]

Originally Posted by Grubert

thedigitalbits says that Speed Racer will be a BD25 with no lossless audio

Well, I was going to blind buy Speed Racer, but not anymore.

[Teazle]

Originally Posted by neo_reloaded

... how humorous it is when people gripe about lossy tracks like they were some completely unlistenable chicken-scratch.

Come on, this has to be a straw man. Who is really saying this?

For my part I'm clamouring for lossless because (as is especially noticeable in some films where the music takes centre stage) lossy sounds perceptibly worse. I would say that 640kbps DD sounds bad (flat, insipid etc) next to 24/48 PCM; that's not to say DD is bad absolutely.

There are a few people around who are posting "No lossless no buy". I don't get that attitude at all. I was disappointed in the lossy on Corpse Bride but I still bought the movie.

[neo_reloaded]

Originally Posted by Teazle

Come on, this has to be a straw man. Who is really saying this?

...

There are a few people around who are posting "No lossless no buy". I don't get that attitude at all. I was disappointed in the lossy on Corpse Bride but I still bought the movie.

The chicken-scratch comment was slight exaggeration, but I have seen hundreds of posts that are basically just "No lossless no buy."

But anyway, the crisis appears to be averted - go check out the latest post on thedigitalbits.com where Bill confirms with WB that Blow and L.A. Confidential are both BD-50s with TrueHD audio. He's still checking on Speed Racer, but others like Josh have said their sources are saying BD-50 and TrueHD for that one as well.