Harman Kardon AVR 247 - Blu-ray Forum

Architecture · 06-06-2007, 04:03 AM

I have two of these recievers over the past few months, and so far I haven't found any opinions as to what others have experienced with this unit. For some reason I have found these recievers to be really buggy when it comes to video output, especially the composite monitor out. I'll be sending a signal from my VCR to my TV and all the sudden it will give me a really goofed up image like the tape is going through some serious degradation, but my LD player will appear completely fine. If I run the same things through the component output, I see these problems completely dissapear.

From what i have heard, it could be the fact that the Fajordia chip is never turned off and could be the source of the problem

Anybody have any experience with the new wave of HK recievers?

tjk1985 · 06-25-2007, 04:12 AM

I purchased one of these at a good price this weekend and it is definitely an upgrade on my sound, but it seems that I get a little picture degradation or interference at times during the blacker parts of discs, like I really noticed it during Underworld. When it's very black, I get what looks like a faint sparkling blue "rain" that comes and goes a bit, though it's quite noticeable to me.

It is not present during the screen saver or anything like that, and I'm wondering if better quality HDMI cables might solve it? Wasn't sure what kind of difference they make, but could this be a case where the more expensive cabling would help? The HDMI cables I have now were the $60 Best Buy ones, but I'm wondering if I splurged on the more expensive Monster brands or anything, if that would help? Or is that a problem with the pass through HDMI, since I don't remember seeing it when I had the HDMI going straight from the player to the TV, but I didn't get the uncompressed 5.1 and stuff which I love, now...

I have the Samsung BD-P1200 with the AVR 247 running to a Samsung DLP HL-S5687W...Any help would be appreciated and I hope I gave enough info to make any sense...

Thanks!

BStecke · 06-25-2007, 04:23 AM

I have this receiver . . . the blue "rain" you're talking about, are you outputting a 1080p signal from your Sammy? Apparently the 247 doesn't work with 1080p on the pass-through. I had the same thing. Look closer, and also try a standard DVD, you'll probably notice it more, along with white and red "sparklies." It's much more noticeable on standard DVD for some reason. I JUST emailed HK tech support on this, because it says it's rated to pass a 1080p signal, and it's horrible on 1080p. I'll post the response from HK tech support when I get an answer.

TJK, I have the 61" version of your set, same receiver . . . I just use a PS3 for a player, so whatever I know should apply pretty much directly to you. I posted about this over at home theater forum and one of the guys there said that with the way the Samsung handles de-interlacing, the difference b/w 1080i and 1080p would be negligible . . . I fall of in the technical knowledge department, so if this is true or not, I don't know. Everything looks great at 1080i, but in the back of my mind it bothers me knowing it's not putting out 1080p.

tjk1985 · 06-25-2007, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BStecke

I have this receiver . . . the blue "rain" you're talking about, are you outputting a 1080p signal from your Sammy? Apparently the 247 doesn't work with 1080p on the pass-through. I had the same thing. Look closer, and also try a standard DVD, you'll probably notice it more, along with white and red "sparklies." It's much more noticeable on standard DVD for some reason. I JUST emailed HK tech support on this, because it says it's rated to pass a 1080p signal, and it's horrible on 1080p. I'll post the response from HK tech support when I get an answer.

I am running 1080p, yes. I've only seen a couple of standard DVDs on it, but they were live music performances and not a movie with a lot of black, so I didn't really notice. I'll check again later. I looked at the manual before I bought it and it said it would pass through the 1080p digital (but not analog) signal, so I would love to know what they tell you, thanks!

BStecke · 06-25-2007, 04:30 AM

Do you have Waiting on standard DVD by any chance? This is the title that I really noticed being horrible on. If you can change your output to 1080i, see if that fixes it. Please let me know too, I'm very interested.

NoTx · 06-25-2007, 06:13 AM

[QUOTE=tjk1985;117259]It is not present during the screen saver or anything like that, and I'm wondering if better quality HDMI cables might solve it? Wasn't sure what kind of difference they make, but could this be a case where the more expensive cabling would help? The HDMI cables I have now were the $60 Best Buy ones, but I'm wondering if I splurged on the more expensive Monster brands or anything, if that would help? Or is that a problem with the pass through HDMI, since I don't remember seeing it when I had the HDMI going straight from the player to the TV, but I didn't get the uncompressed 5.1 and stuff which I love, now...
[QUOTE]

Ok, just as an aside, since you hit a pet peeve of mine.

Digital signals are on or off. If you are getting a picture then they are on. You do not have to spend on "Monster marketing". They are absolulty inane. Do some research on the net and you will see what I mean.

Spending more on the HDMI would have only hurt your wallet, not helped you pocket. Heck if you could take back your $60 and trade it for a $20 cable... it would be worth it

I would suggest forwarding your problem to HK tech support. You are definetly in their warranty period, and if just started happening, it is either a function changed, or something died. But then I am still waiting to hear if the 247 can do 7.1 PCM... HK doesn't appear to know. Someone named Mike needs to responde to the support staff *Mike is an engineer). I have been waiting 9 days.

Ah well.. back to waiting.

tjk1985 · 06-25-2007, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Ok, just as an aside, since you hit a pet peeve of mine.

Spending more on the HDMI would have only hurt your wallet, not helped you pocket. Heck if you could take back your $60 and trade it for a $20 cable... it would be worth it

Thanks for that info!

BStecke: I do have Waiting and I'll try it tonight when I get home and let you know...I have watched some other movies, like Bridge to Terabithia and did not notice the same, though, there was not much "black" in that movie, nor were there black bars. Underworld was the worst, and there was some during Casino Royale.

tjk1985 · 06-26-2007, 05:33 PM

Switching the BD player to 1080i did take care of the "blue rain" problem..There doesn't seem to be a huge difference in the pq, but since I bought a tv with 1080p, I sure would like to see it that way.

If I hook up the BD player HDMI directly to the tv, can I get uncompressed sound in any way through the receiver using either the optical/coax audio connection or the red/white audio jacks? I thought I read somewhere that to get the uncompressed audio, you MUST have HDMI...

BStecke · 06-27-2007, 04:33 PM

Well, I contacted HK tech support. They said they've received a few complaints regarding the PS3 and 1080p and that they just got a PS3 for testing purposes the other day and would let me know. I'll give them a week and call them back. You may want to call them as well, since you're using a different player and having the same problem. I asked them if the receiver was indeed able to pass a 1080p signal, and was assured that it does, but the PS3 has been an issue. So . . . I guess I'll keep you posted on what I find out.

How long is your HDMI cable? "Rain" is also usually indicative of a breakdown in the signal as it's passing through the cable. HDMI is notorious for not being able to run for very long distances before the signal starts to degrade.

tjk1985 · 06-27-2007, 06:09 PM

Well, my HDMI cables are only 6 ft, so that shouldn't be the issue.

Here's what I got back from HK tech:

I'm sorry to hear of this. I'm not sure why your are
experiencing this. Here are some things to check. HDMI cables over 15
feet long can create similar artifacts. Also, please make sure that
they are good quality cables. I would also recommend checking with
Samsung to see if there may be any software upgrades available. Even
though you get good picture when connected directly to the TV, the
introduction of a receiver adds the necessity of HDCP copy protection
and this is where video issues occur. Many times, the source software
is the problem. It's worth checking into. I will continue to inquire
here as to what the issue may be.

tjk1985 · 06-28-2007, 03:54 PM

Update:

I thought I'd try using a different cable to see if that made a difference, but the only other HDMI cable I had was 4' long, and it didn't quite reach without having to move stuff around a lot, so I moved stuff a little, and did get it to reach my HDMI 2 port on the tv. I orginally had it in HDMI 1. Lo and behold, knock on wood, when using the other port for the input from the receiver to the tv the "blue rain" was not there. I hope that solves the problem for good.

BStecke · 06-28-2007, 04:26 PM

After updating my PS3 to 1.82, the problem seems to be better, but it's not fixed at all. While I don't have the white spottiness all over the place as much, it's still there, and there's stil a lack of color and sharpness when compared to 1080i. So I guess I'll keep waiting.

tjk1985 · 06-28-2007, 10:31 PM

My fix actually did not work. I was sure I had reset the BD player to 1080p, but when I went to watch a movie this afternoon, I noticed it still said 10801.

What a dumbass...

BStecke · 07-08-2007, 03:35 AM

Well, I spent a good part of the day emailing HK tech support with no results. Tomorrow is my 30th day after purchase, and since I've had no luck with HK fixing the issue (or really getting any explanation as to what the issue is), I'm returning my 247. I'll be getting the Sony STRDG1000, which has received many good reviews and is supposedly optimized for Blu-ray performance (whatever that means). I didn't used to be the biggest fan of Sony, but I've gained a lot of respect for them due to what they've done with the PS3. The Sony doesn't look as pretty as the HK, but I want my 1080p, dammit!

bigmf · 07-08-2007, 05:55 AM

I haven't had any troubled with my 347 so far. Ps3 asnd Motorola Hdpvr from my cable company both work well over HDMI. Sorry I can't help with your problem.

BStecke · 07-08-2007, 06:15 AM

You're running 1080p from the PS3?

bigmf · 07-08-2007, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BStecke

You're running 1080p from the PS3?

Yep

Rusted · 07-16-2007, 02:49 PM

I really hate to double post, but I guess that is what I get for posting before looking.

I'm newer to the home theatre world, though I have been a Harman/Kardon owner for the past few years and know a fair amount of the basics. I just want to get the best out of the system that I can since we're moving and I have the opportunity to make it 'perfect.'

I am planning on running HDMI cable from both the dvd player and cable box to the receiver, then from the receiver to the TV.

Gear:
42" Philips LCD 1080p (42PFL7422D)
Harman/Kardon AVR-247
Harman/Kardon DVD-38
HDTV/DVR cable box (not yet delivered, but will have an HDMI output)

By doing this, does the receiver have to be on in order to get picture? Or will power always be running out of the receiver (standby) to where the Simplay-HD of the Harman will still pass the signal to the monitor? I guess what I'm getting at is that I want to have the option of using the receiver for sound, but always want the HD connection.

If this is not an option, what are my other alternatives? HDMI to TV, Coaxial Digital Out, Optical?

Also, I am new to HDMI and am unsure how to find what type of HDMI my receiver is. I've checked the manual and nothing. Are cables downwards compatible? Or might someone already know?

Please help.

BStecke · 07-16-2007, 02:58 PM

Update on my situation with the AVR 247. I was back and forth with HK tech support, doing resets and master resets with no results. They offered to replace it under warranty, but I was still within my 30 days of purchase, so I returned it. I ended up getting a Pioneer Elite VSX-91TXH instead, which I got a SWEET deal on ($574), so I couldn't really pass it up. Love this receiver, awesome sound, works with 1080p, supports TrueHD and DTS HDMA, so I should be set for awhile.

NoTx · 07-24-2007, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BStecke

Update on my situation with the AVR 247. I was back and forth with HK tech support, doing resets and master resets with no results. They offered to replace it under warranty, but I was still within my 30 days of purchase, so I returned it. I ended up getting a Pioneer Elite VSX-91TXH instead, which I got a SWEET deal on ($574), so I couldn't really pass it up. Love this receiver, awesome sound, works with 1080p, supports TrueHD and DTS HDMA, so I should be set for awhile.

Hmm... any more around??

06-06-2007, 04:03 AM	#1
Architecture Junior Member Member since:Jun 2007	Harman Kardon AVR 247 I have two of these recievers over the past few months, and so far I haven't found any opinions as to what others have experienced with this unit. For some reason I have found these recievers to be really buggy when it comes to video output, especially the composite monitor out. I'll be sending a signal from my VCR to my TV and all the sudden it will give me a really goofed up image like the tape is going through some serious degradation, but my LD player will appear completely fine. If I run the same things through the component output, I see these problems completely dissapear. From what i have heard, it could be the fact that the Fajordia chip is never turned off and could be the source of the problem Anybody have any experience with the new wave of HK recievers?

06-25-2007, 04:23 AM	#3
BStecke Blu-ray Knight Member since:Jun 2007 4K collection:182 Blu-ray collection:567 DVD collection:1 Digital collection:1 iTunes collection:1 Blu-ray reviews: 1 Trading Score:6	I have this receiver . . . the blue "rain" you're talking about, are you outputting a 1080p signal from your Sammy? Apparently the 247 doesn't work with 1080p on the pass-through. I had the same thing. Look closer, and also try a standard DVD, you'll probably notice it more, along with white and red "sparklies." It's much more noticeable on standard DVD for some reason. I JUST emailed HK tech support on this, because it says it's rated to pass a 1080p signal, and it's horrible on 1080p. I'll post the response from HK tech support when I get an answer. TJK, I have the 61" version of your set, same receiver . . . I just use a PS3 for a player, so whatever I know should apply pretty much directly to you. I posted about this over at home theater forum and one of the guys there said that with the way the Samsung handles de-interlacing, the difference b/w 1080i and 1080p would be negligible . . . I fall of in the technical knowledge department, so if this is true or not, I don't know. Everything looks great at 1080i, but in the back of my mind it bothers me knowing it's not putting out 1080p. Last edited by BStecke; 06-25-2007 at 04:26 AM.

07-08-2007, 05:55 AM	#15
bigmf Active Member Member since:Dec 2006 Location:Over here	I haven't had any troubled with my 347 so far. Ps3 asnd Motorola Hdpvr from my cable company both work well over HDMI. Sorry I can't help with your problem. Last edited by bigmf; 07-08-2007 at 06:38 AM.

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06-25-2007, 04:12 AM	#2
tjk1985 Member Member since:Jun 2007	I purchased one of these at a good price this weekend and it is definitely an upgrade on my sound, but it seems that I get a little picture degradation or interference at times during the blacker parts of discs, like I really noticed it during Underworld. When it's very black, I get what looks like a faint sparkling blue "rain" that comes and goes a bit, though it's quite noticeable to me. It is not present during the screen saver or anything like that, and I'm wondering if better quality HDMI cables might solve it? Wasn't sure what kind of difference they make, but could this be a case where the more expensive cabling would help? The HDMI cables I have now were the $60 Best Buy ones, but I'm wondering if I splurged on the more expensive Monster brands or anything, if that would help? Or is that a problem with the pass through HDMI, since I don't remember seeing it when I had the HDMI going straight from the player to the TV, but I didn't get the uncompressed 5.1 and stuff which I love, now... I have the Samsung BD-P1200 with the AVR 247 running to a Samsung DLP HL-S5687W...Any help would be appreciated and I hope I gave enough info to make any sense... Thanks!

06-25-2007, 04:30 AM	#5
BStecke Blu-ray Knight Member since:Jun 2007 4K collection:182 Blu-ray collection:567 DVD collection:1 Digital collection:1 iTunes collection:1 Blu-ray reviews: 1 Trading Score:6	Do you have Waiting on standard DVD by any chance? This is the title that I really noticed being horrible on. If you can change your output to 1080i, see if that fixes it. Please let me know too, I'm very interested.

06-25-2007, 06:13 AM	#6
NoTx Member Member since:May 2007	[QUOTE=tjk1985;117259]It is not present during the screen saver or anything like that, and I'm wondering if better quality HDMI cables might solve it? Wasn't sure what kind of difference they make, but could this be a case where the more expensive cabling would help? The HDMI cables I have now were the $60 Best Buy ones, but I'm wondering if I splurged on the more expensive Monster brands or anything, if that would help? Or is that a problem with the pass through HDMI, since I don't remember seeing it when I had the HDMI going straight from the player to the TV, but I didn't get the uncompressed 5.1 and stuff which I love, now... [QUOTE] Ok, just as an aside, since you hit a pet peeve of mine. Digital signals are on or off. If you are getting a picture then they are on. You do not have to spend on "Monster marketing". They are absolulty inane. Do some research on the net and you will see what I mean. Spending more on the HDMI would have only hurt your wallet, not helped you pocket. Heck if you could take back your $60 and trade it for a $20 cable... it would be worth it I would suggest forwarding your problem to HK tech support. You are definetly in their warranty period, and if just started happening, it is either a function changed, or something died. But then I am still waiting to hear if the 247 can do 7.1 PCM... HK doesn't appear to know. Someone named Mike needs to responde to the support staff *Mike is an engineer). I have been waiting 9 days. Ah well.. back to waiting.

06-26-2007, 05:33 PM	#8
tjk1985 Member Member since:Jun 2007	Switching the BD player to 1080i did take care of the "blue rain" problem..There doesn't seem to be a huge difference in the pq, but since I bought a tv with 1080p, I sure would like to see it that way. If I hook up the BD player HDMI directly to the tv, can I get uncompressed sound in any way through the receiver using either the optical/coax audio connection or the red/white audio jacks? I thought I read somewhere that to get the uncompressed audio, you MUST have HDMI...

06-27-2007, 04:33 PM	#9
BStecke Blu-ray Knight Member since:Jun 2007 4K collection:182 Blu-ray collection:567 DVD collection:1 Digital collection:1 iTunes collection:1 Blu-ray reviews: 1 Trading Score:6	Well, I contacted HK tech support. They said they've received a few complaints regarding the PS3 and 1080p and that they just got a PS3 for testing purposes the other day and would let me know. I'll give them a week and call them back. You may want to call them as well, since you're using a different player and having the same problem. I asked them if the receiver was indeed able to pass a 1080p signal, and was assured that it does, but the PS3 has been an issue. So . . . I guess I'll keep you posted on what I find out. How long is your HDMI cable? "Rain" is also usually indicative of a breakdown in the signal as it's passing through the cable. HDMI is notorious for not being able to run for very long distances before the signal starts to degrade.

06-27-2007, 06:09 PM	#10
tjk1985 Member Member since:Jun 2007	Well, my HDMI cables are only 6 ft, so that shouldn't be the issue. Here's what I got back from HK tech: I'm sorry to hear of this. I'm not sure why your are experiencing this. Here are some things to check. HDMI cables over 15 feet long can create similar artifacts. Also, please make sure that they are good quality cables. I would also recommend checking with Samsung to see if there may be any software upgrades available. Even though you get good picture when connected directly to the TV, the introduction of a receiver adds the necessity of HDCP copy protection and this is where video issues occur. Many times, the source software is the problem. It's worth checking into. I will continue to inquire here as to what the issue may be.

06-28-2007, 03:54 PM	#11
tjk1985 Member Member since:Jun 2007	Update: I thought I'd try using a different cable to see if that made a difference, but the only other HDMI cable I had was 4' long, and it didn't quite reach without having to move stuff around a lot, so I moved stuff a little, and did get it to reach my HDMI 2 port on the tv. I orginally had it in HDMI 1. Lo and behold, knock on wood, when using the other port for the input from the receiver to the tv the "blue rain" was not there. I hope that solves the problem for good.

06-28-2007, 04:26 PM	#12
BStecke Blu-ray Knight Member since:Jun 2007 4K collection:182 Blu-ray collection:567 DVD collection:1 Digital collection:1 iTunes collection:1 Blu-ray reviews: 1 Trading Score:6	After updating my PS3 to 1.82, the problem seems to be better, but it's not fixed at all. While I don't have the white spottiness all over the place as much, it's still there, and there's stil a lack of color and sharpness when compared to 1080i. So I guess I'll keep waiting.

06-28-2007, 10:31 PM	#13
tjk1985 Member Member since:Jun 2007	My fix actually did not work. I was sure I had reset the BD player to 1080p, but when I went to watch a movie this afternoon, I noticed it still said 10801. What a dumbass...

07-08-2007, 03:35 AM	#14
BStecke Blu-ray Knight Member since:Jun 2007 4K collection:182 Blu-ray collection:567 DVD collection:1 Digital collection:1 iTunes collection:1 Blu-ray reviews: 1 Trading Score:6	Well, I spent a good part of the day emailing HK tech support with no results. Tomorrow is my 30th day after purchase, and since I've had no luck with HK fixing the issue (or really getting any explanation as to what the issue is), I'm returning my 247. I'll be getting the Sony STRDG1000, which has received many good reviews and is supposedly optimized for Blu-ray performance (whatever that means). I didn't used to be the biggest fan of Sony, but I've gained a lot of respect for them due to what they've done with the PS3. The Sony doesn't look as pretty as the HK, but I want my 1080p, dammit!

07-08-2007, 06:15 AM	#16
BStecke Blu-ray Knight Member since:Jun 2007 4K collection:182 Blu-ray collection:567 DVD collection:1 Digital collection:1 iTunes collection:1 Blu-ray reviews: 1 Trading Score:6	You're running 1080p from the PS3?

07-16-2007, 02:49 PM	#18
Rusted Junior Member Member since:Jul 2007	I really hate to double post, but I guess that is what I get for posting before looking. I'm newer to the home theatre world, though I have been a Harman/Kardon owner for the past few years and know a fair amount of the basics. I just want to get the best out of the system that I can since we're moving and I have the opportunity to make it 'perfect.' I am planning on running HDMI cable from both the dvd player and cable box to the receiver, then from the receiver to the TV. Gear: 42" Philips LCD 1080p (42PFL7422D) Harman/Kardon AVR-247 Harman/Kardon DVD-38 HDTV/DVR cable box (not yet delivered, but will have an HDMI output) By doing this, does the receiver have to be on in order to get picture? Or will power always be running out of the receiver (standby) to where the Simplay-HD of the Harman will still pass the signal to the monitor? I guess what I'm getting at is that I want to have the option of using the receiver for sound, but always want the HD connection. If this is not an option, what are my other alternatives? HDMI to TV, Coaxial Digital Out, Optical? Also, I am new to HDMI and am unsure how to find what type of HDMI my receiver is. I've checked the manual and nothing. Are cables downwards compatible? Or might someone already know? Please help.

07-16-2007, 02:58 PM	#19
BStecke Blu-ray Knight Member since:Jun 2007 4K collection:182 Blu-ray collection:567 DVD collection:1 Digital collection:1 iTunes collection:1 Blu-ray reviews: 1 Trading Score:6	Update on my situation with the AVR 247. I was back and forth with HK tech support, doing resets and master resets with no results. They offered to replace it under warranty, but I was still within my 30 days of purchase, so I returned it. I ended up getting a Pioneer Elite VSX-91TXH instead, which I got a SWEET deal on ($574), so I couldn't really pass it up. Love this receiver, awesome sound, works with 1080p, supports TrueHD and DTS HDMA, so I should be set for awhile.

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