$100 vs $1000 ? - Blu-ray Forum

TurboNutter · 06-23-2006, 09:23 AM

Does anyone think these "up-conversion" dvd players are worth it? Best Buy had a BD player on display, but wasn't showing a movie on it. The sales child tried selling me the Samsung HD up-conversion player. If these can put out 1080i, and thats all that my tv can put out, would it be worth it? At least in the meantime till my wallet allows a BD.

BTBuck1 · 06-23-2006, 04:14 PM

I went with upconversion a couple of months ago to tide me over til blu ray would come out. Now it's looking like my beloved sony bdps-1 wont come out til late october, so im glad to have bought the sony dvp-nc85h/b 5 disc upconvert. I have a cleaner picture with improved contrast/color. It's not HD but it's half way there IMO. And with over 300 regular dvd's i can't just toss out the format when BR comes out. so i would say, it's up to you. Upconverts are certainly cheap enough now and some cheaper ones even include an hdmi cable (almost worth the price of the player alone) if you've got a secondary tv to kick the dvd player to once the Blu ray comes out that you want then go for it .Sony & oppo probably make the best upconvert players... Otherwise just buy the dang samsung blu ray it does both =)

JTK · 06-23-2006, 04:14 PM

I wouldn't touch any Samsung DVD player at any price. Samsung has never yet made a good DVD player.

Yes, upconversion players are worth it 9/10 times, but if you're only going to spend <$200 on one...maybe not.

At that price level, I'd either recommend the Oppos, a couple of Sonys, and maybe the Panny s97...although I'd steer clear of any player that uses the Faroudja FLI23xx chip, because it's fatally plagued with a macroblocking issue that I find intolerable.

The Don · 06-23-2006, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTK

I wouldn't touch any Samsung DVD player at any price. Samsung has never yet made a good DVD player.

Yes, upconversion players are worth it 9/10 times, but if you're only going to spend <$200 on one...maybe not.

At that price level, I'd either recommend the Oppos, a couple of Sonys, and maybe the Panny s97...although I'd steer clear of any player that uses the Faroudja FLI23xx chip, because it's fatally plagued with a macroblocking issue that I find intolerable.

the most recent Samsung upconversion player actually isn't that bad...

I have the 2 previous one's and they work fine....the 1st one has a tricky hook-up and is glitchy....but the most recent on (3rd generation for upconversion) isn't that bad....if you wanted a 100.00 upconversion player...I'd actually recommend it...

the other 2 are ehh....and I hate samsung players after dealing with the 1st one...but the latest is not bad...

Psiweaver · 06-23-2006, 04:54 PM

the samsungs all have horrible black levels though. I'd stay away from it if i were you. I'd recommend getting a nice upconverter for now somehting like the denon dvd 1920 or the 2910.

georgir · 06-26-2006, 08:32 PM

i really don't get this.

if your tv is 1080 lines, it will upconvert whatever signal is fed to it anyway. so spending a grand just to get that same upconversion done a step earlier, in the player itself, seems dumb as hell to me.

now a completely different question is if the quality of the upconversion done by the TV is worse than that in the player - if that is the case, you've just bought a crap TV.

i don't have a HD set, nor have i even read anything about the available options out there, so it might be the case that all currently available sets are crap when it comes to upconversion. in that case, spending more on the player is your only option.

Psiweaver · 06-26-2006, 08:47 PM

a nice upconverting dvd player will most likely do a better job than your tvs scaler since then most likley your tv won't have to scale the image to display it. the only time this might be silly is if you had a runco or something simliar and were using there video scaler that was matched to your plasma or projector.

AV_Integrated · 06-27-2006, 03:11 PM

The upconverters in DVD players are almost always better than those in televisions. They have a HUGE advantage over your TV! Here's why...

1. They are designed to work around the data that is stored on a DVD. This data is ALWAYS 480i material, most commonly MPEG2 stored a 720x240 pixels. Your TV has to deal with 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i most often.

2. The DVD player reads the information directly off the DVD in the digital domain. It doesn't convert it from digital, to analog, then back to digital to process it. It can deal with it directly! Your TV, if it gets composite, s-video, or component video, is working with analog video.

3. There are digital flags on DVDs which the DVD player can read and use to help with the digital processing.

4. The final 'converted' video can be sent digitally, over HDMI or DVI directly to your display. This keeps the video from ever enterring the analog domain and can increase the overall quality of the final image.

That said - MANY DVD players are very weak at deinterlacing video from 480i to 480p. Their scaling is typically fine, but their deinterlacers suck. A few models including the Panasonic S97 and the Oppo Digital models tend to do a far better job with deinterlacing than the competitors. Sony and Samsung are well established as doing a POOR job with deinterlacing. I have not heard a solid review of a sub $200 upconverting DVD player yet. Should I read a serious review that gives solid marks for a sub $200 unit I will happily recommend it. But, until then, players like the Panny and Oppo will be near the top of the list for 'bargain' upconverting DVD players.

BTBuck1 · 06-27-2006, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AV_Integrated

I have not heard a solid review of a sub $200 upconverting DVD player yet. Should I read a serious review that gives solid marks for a sub $200 unit I will happily recommend it. But, until then, players like the Panny and Oppo will be near the top of the list for 'bargain' upconverting DVD players.

http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_DVP_NS7...-31814740.html

http://www.epinions.com/Sony_DVP_NS7...splay_~reviews

http://www.circuitcity.com/rpsm/oid/...Review.do#tabs

Psiweaver · 06-27-2006, 06:39 PM

I don't trust any of those sources. epinions is garbage cnet is okay but a little too much like consumer reports. and circut city well i won't even get started there.

BTBuck1 · 06-27-2006, 06:49 PM

well with that many people saying good things about a product and it only costing $130 bucks, and you can buy it anywhere with a 30 day money back return policy if not satisfied...I wouldnt lose sleep over it.

Psiweaver · 06-27-2006, 06:50 PM

yeah i just tend to get annoyed with the cheaper upconversion players. I'll stick to my dv-79ai.

BTBuck1 · 06-27-2006, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psiweaver

yeah i just tend to get annoyed with the cheaper upconversion players. I'll stick to my dv-79ai.

with blu -ray and hddvd out and upconverting, i'd just stick it out with prog scan and get a BR or HDDVD player to do the work + buy new releases on the newer formats.

Psiweaver · 06-27-2006, 07:29 PM

yeah i already have my dv-79ai and it'll be at least another year until i go blu-ray

AV_Integrated · 06-27-2006, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian@BBY

http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_DVP_NS7...-31814740.html

http://www.epinions.com/Sony_DVP_NS7...splay_~reviews

http://www.circuitcity.com/rpsm/oid/...Review.do#tabs

Those definitely are NOT reputable resources for reviews. But, in all honesty, I own 2 Sony DVD players, both of which continually work very well for me (DVP-NS725P and the new 400-Disc Changer w/HDMI). But, progressive scan mode on the players constantly gets shot down when compared to products like the Panasonic S97. It is all about the deinterlacing - which Sony doesn't get dead on... and conveniently isn't really tested in any of those reviews.

Not calling the Sony bad - as I have had good luck with them. But, I haven't seen a more reputable review yet either. I'm not about to call it garbage - or give it a gold star the way I would for the Oppo or Panny S97.

BTBuck1 · 06-27-2006, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AV_Integrated

Those definitely are NOT reputable resources for reviews. But, in all honesty, I own 2 Sony DVD players, both of which continually work very well for me (DVP-NS725P and the new 400-Disc Changer w/HDMI). But, progressive scan mode on the players constantly gets shot down when compared to products like the Panasonic S97. It is all about the deinterlacing - which Sony doesn't get dead on... and conveniently isn't really tested in any of those reviews.

Not calling the Sony bad - as I have had good luck with them. But, I haven't seen a more reputable review yet either. I'm not about to call it garbage - or give it a gold star the way I would for the Oppo or Panny S97.

I've been around the CE industry for about 5 yrs and have been an avid Home theatre enthusiast since about 97' (launch of DVD) and i can honestly say the Sony i have (DVPNC85H/B) is the best player i've used/seen so far. I've had the samsungs, pioneer, yamaha & i used the oppo for a short period (bought after IGN's gear review).
I liked the Oppo but my tv at the time (Samsung plasma) got the MB that they are notorious for , that was the deal breaker for me. So i sold it to a buddy for what i paid,less shipping and he's in love with it on his panny 37" plasma. oppo is A very good player on some tv's. I'd love to see the pannys97 in action...i've heard great reviews of it.

Psiweaver · 06-27-2006, 08:51 PM

There are a lot better players out there. I don't know how many of the really top flight players you've seen though since best buy doesn't tend to stock them. Sony is decent but they are far past their prime as a true innovator in the field.

AV_Integrated · 06-28-2006, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psiweaver

There are a lot better players out there. I don't know how many of the really top flight players you've seen though since best buy doesn't tend to stock them. Sony is decent but they are far past their prime as a true innovator in the field.

Sony's use of LCoS is cutting edge. It may take another year, but Blu-ray may show itself as pure innovation. They aren't ahead in all areas, but they rarely have been. It is just certain areas they lead the pack, or are right near the top.

Savage_BBY · 06-29-2006, 06:51 AM

Not to step on anyone toes and it is kind of off topic but sony using LCOS technology is not cutting edge. JVC has been attempting it for a few years they just never got it right. I have a Sony 32HS500 and a Sony 85H upconvert and I have no complaints so far.

Psiweaver · 06-29-2006, 04:36 PM

Yeah sony isn't that cutting edge in the lcos market. The funny thing is that i would be surprised if they are even making there own sxrd tv's anyways. Their tubes have dropped off in quality significantly and they jointly devoloped blu-ray with quite a few other companies.

06-23-2006, 09:23 AM	#1
TurboNutter Member Member since:Apr 2006 Location:New York	$100 vs $1000 ? Does anyone think these "up-conversion" dvd players are worth it? Best Buy had a BD player on display, but wasn't showing a movie on it. The sales child tried selling me the Samsung HD up-conversion player. If these can put out 1080i, and thats all that my tv can put out, would it be worth it? At least in the meantime till my wallet allows a BD.

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06-23-2006, 04:14 PM	#2
BTBuck1 Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jun 2006 Location:Oceanside, CA. Blu-ray collection:507 DVD collection:1	I went with upconversion a couple of months ago to tide me over til blu ray would come out. Now it's looking like my beloved sony bdps-1 wont come out til late october, so im glad to have bought the sony dvp-nc85h/b 5 disc upconvert. I have a cleaner picture with improved contrast/color. It's not HD but it's half way there IMO. And with over 300 regular dvd's i can't just toss out the format when BR comes out. so i would say, it's up to you. Upconverts are certainly cheap enough now and some cheaper ones even include an hdmi cable (almost worth the price of the player alone) if you've got a secondary tv to kick the dvd player to once the Blu ray comes out that you want then go for it .Sony & oppo probably make the best upconvert players... Otherwise just buy the dang samsung blu ray it does both =)

06-23-2006, 04:14 PM	#3
JTK Blu-ray Knight Member since:Jan 2006 Location:www.blurayoasis.com	I wouldn't touch any Samsung DVD player at any price. Samsung has never yet made a good DVD player. Yes, upconversion players are worth it 9/10 times, but if you're only going to spend <$200 on one...maybe not. At that price level, I'd either recommend the Oppos, a couple of Sonys, and maybe the Panny s97...although I'd steer clear of any player that uses the Faroudja FLI23xx chip, because it's fatally plagued with a macroblocking issue that I find intolerable.

06-23-2006, 04:54 PM	#5
Psiweaver Special Member Member since:Jun 2006 Location:Los Angeles,CA	the samsungs all have horrible black levels though. I'd stay away from it if i were you. I'd recommend getting a nice upconverter for now somehting like the denon dvd 1920 or the 2910.

06-26-2006, 08:32 PM	#6
georgir Active Member Member since:Mar 2005	i really don't get this. if your tv is 1080 lines, it will upconvert whatever signal is fed to it anyway. so spending a grand just to get that same upconversion done a step earlier, in the player itself, seems dumb as hell to me. now a completely different question is if the quality of the upconversion done by the TV is worse than that in the player - if that is the case, you've just bought a crap TV. i don't have a HD set, nor have i even read anything about the available options out there, so it might be the case that all currently available sets are crap when it comes to upconversion. in that case, spending more on the player is your only option.

06-26-2006, 08:47 PM	#7
Psiweaver Special Member Member since:Jun 2006 Location:Los Angeles,CA	a nice upconverting dvd player will most likely do a better job than your tvs scaler since then most likley your tv won't have to scale the image to display it. the only time this might be silly is if you had a runco or something simliar and were using there video scaler that was matched to your plasma or projector.

06-27-2006, 03:11 PM	#8
AV_Integrated Senior Member Member since:Jan 2005	The upconverters in DVD players are almost always better than those in televisions. They have a HUGE advantage over your TV! Here's why... 1. They are designed to work around the data that is stored on a DVD. This data is ALWAYS 480i material, most commonly MPEG2 stored a 720x240 pixels. Your TV has to deal with 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i most often. 2. The DVD player reads the information directly off the DVD in the digital domain. It doesn't convert it from digital, to analog, then back to digital to process it. It can deal with it directly! Your TV, if it gets composite, s-video, or component video, is working with analog video. 3. There are digital flags on DVDs which the DVD player can read and use to help with the digital processing. 4. The final 'converted' video can be sent digitally, over HDMI or DVI directly to your display. This keeps the video from ever enterring the analog domain and can increase the overall quality of the final image. That said - MANY DVD players are very weak at deinterlacing video from 480i to 480p. Their scaling is typically fine, but their deinterlacers suck. A few models including the Panasonic S97 and the Oppo Digital models tend to do a far better job with deinterlacing than the competitors. Sony and Samsung are well established as doing a POOR job with deinterlacing. I have not heard a solid review of a sub $200 upconverting DVD player yet. Should I read a serious review that gives solid marks for a sub $200 unit I will happily recommend it. But, until then, players like the Panny and Oppo will be near the top of the list for 'bargain' upconverting DVD players.

06-27-2006, 06:39 PM	#10
Psiweaver Special Member Member since:Jun 2006 Location:Los Angeles,CA	I don't trust any of those sources. epinions is garbage cnet is okay but a little too much like consumer reports. and circut city well i won't even get started there.

06-27-2006, 06:49 PM	#11
BTBuck1 Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jun 2006 Location:Oceanside, CA. Blu-ray collection:507 DVD collection:1	well with that many people saying good things about a product and it only costing $130 bucks, and you can buy it anywhere with a 30 day money back return policy if not satisfied...I wouldnt lose sleep over it.

06-27-2006, 06:50 PM	#12
Psiweaver Special Member Member since:Jun 2006 Location:Los Angeles,CA	yeah i just tend to get annoyed with the cheaper upconversion players. I'll stick to my dv-79ai.

06-27-2006, 07:29 PM	#14
Psiweaver Special Member Member since:Jun 2006 Location:Los Angeles,CA	yeah i already have my dv-79ai and it'll be at least another year until i go blu-ray

06-27-2006, 08:51 PM	#17
Psiweaver Special Member Member since:Jun 2006 Location:Los Angeles,CA	There are a lot better players out there. I don't know how many of the really top flight players you've seen though since best buy doesn't tend to stock them. Sony is decent but they are far past their prime as a true innovator in the field.

06-29-2006, 06:51 AM	#19
Savage_BBY New Member Member since:Jun 2006	Not to step on anyone toes and it is kind of off topic but sony using LCOS technology is not cutting edge. JVC has been attempting it for a few years they just never got it right. I have a Sony 32HS500 and a Sony 85H upconvert and I have no complaints so far.

06-29-2006, 04:36 PM	#20
Psiweaver Special Member Member since:Jun 2006 Location:Los Angeles,CA	Yeah sony isn't that cutting edge in the lcos market. The funny thing is that i would be surprised if they are even making there own sxrd tv's anyways. Their tubes have dropped off in quality significantly and they jointly devoloped blu-ray with quite a few other companies.

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