Sony's Marvel Universe

[CyberpunkCentral]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

I don't think it's necessary to do the whole "Spidey battles with the symbiote before it latches onto Brock" thing all over again. Give things a new spin. Brock's a small-time criminal who comes across the symbiote and uses it for ill gains before some bigger threat emerges in the form of Carnage and with Spidey out helping save the world from bigger dangers, Venom is the only game in town to save NYC. Something like that. I'm all for them trying something new and adapting these character/source material for the big screen, rather than simply take stories we already know and regurgitate them all over again. Just gonna keep an open mind, it's easy to be dismissive (especially with Sony lol) but the idea of getting Spidey standalones, Spidey with the Avengers, and movies about Spidey villains is all kinds of tantalizing.

Then how would you explain why Venom has Spider-Man's powers?

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by CyberpunkCentral

Then how would you explain why Venom has Spider-Man's powers?

The symbiote connects with/kinda controls the mind of whoever it's latched onto. Brock is jealous of the fame and attention Spidey gets, and because Spidey may have stopped him during a crime or something. When the symbiote finds him, it taps into Brock's jealousy/hatred of Spidey and gives him similar powers. Boom, done. Took two minutes lol. It's not the canon origin story but it's different and can still work as a standalone movie without a need for Spidey.

I'd still like for Spidey to be involved, but reading that first sentence of the OP's last paragraph doesn't give me much confidence, plus Disney/Marvel will want nothing to do with an R-rated movie. I think they can still have a fully CG Spidey that shows up on news footage or in the distance somewhere, things like that. But making a decent Venom movie without Spidey isn't impossible. And I'm sure Sony is putting a little more thought into this than I just did.

At least I hope they are...

[CyberpunkCentral]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

The symbiote connects with/kinda controls the mind of whoever it's latched onto. Brock is jealous of the fame and attention Spidey gets, and because Spidey may have stopped him during a crime or something. When the symbiote finds him, it taps into Brock's jealousy/hatred of Spidey and gives him similar powers. Boom, done. Took two minutes lol. It's not the canon origin story but it's different and can still work as a standalone movie without a need for Spidey.

I'd still like for Spidey to be involved, but reading that first sentence of the OP's last paragraph doesn't give me much confidence, plus Disney/Marvel will want nothing to do with an R-rated movie. I think they can still have a fully CG Spidey that shows up on news footage or in the distance somewhere, things like that. But making a decent Venom movie without Spidey isn't impossible. And I'm sure Sony is putting a little more thought into this than I just did.

At least I hope they are...

lol, you're just proving my point that they are rushing things. Venom getting Spidey powers without any physical contact? Yeah... introducing the symbiote in The Avengers: Infinity War is a far better idea than this mess.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by CyberpunkCentral

lol, you're just proving my point that they are rushing things. Venom getting Spidey powers without any physical contact? Yeah... introducing the symbiote in The Avengers: Infinity War is a far better idea than this mess.

Only if you want venom in the MCU, I don't.

[Ant1010]

Originally Posted by Seymour

The article doesn't really specify, but since Spidey is now part of the MCU (for a few movies at least), I think that means he won't appear in any of these announced movies.

That's why everyone is already down on this idea, cause a Venom movie without Spider-Man sounds really dumb.

Now that the dust is settling, let’s discuss who won in the Spider-Man rights battle between Marvel and Sony. The fans win, obviously, as we’ll finally get to see a true Spider-Man movie made in the vision of Marvel Studios. And the wall-crawler will share the screen alongside the mighty Avengers in, from what we’re hearing, Captain America: Civil War and the upcoming Infinity Wars saga. But financially speaking, which studio has the upperhand?

The answer, strangely, is both. Variety has a breakdown of the negotiations between Sony and Disney – which was going on for months and finally settled on a level everyone could appreciate. And the results of the deal are… unusual, starting with the fact that Marvel reportedly paid nothing for the rights to use Spider-Man in their upcoming slate of films. That’s right. They got Spidey for free.

According to the trade, the studios worked out a deal that will have each respective studio receiving the profits from the movies they make with Spider-Man. So Marvel doesn’t have to share profits with Sony for Civil War or The Avengers. At the same time, Sony will benefit completely from the profits made by the solo Spider-Man movies, which appear to be being made under the Sony umbrella.

Sony, in the process, rehabs Spider-Man’s image by allowing him to show up in Marvel movies, and earning goodwill from the Spidey fanbase for allowing their beloved character to show up on screen alongside other staples of the Marvel comic universe. In essence, the two studios have agreed on a system that allows them to share Spider-Man, and each use them to their own ends.

The biggest question stemming from this deal is, "How will this work, creatively?" The financial side of it makes so much sense, I’m still surprised the deal went through. Both studios seem to benefit, financially. But will the Spider-Man solo movies pull plots from the MCU? Will they continue to exist separately, or will the actions of the MCU movies dictate what Sony can (and will) do in the standalone Spider-Man movies – the first being penciled in for July 28, 2017?

Variety notes that it is Sony who will work on re-casting the role of Spider-Man, with an intention of finding a teenager. Will Marvel have input on the hire? This line, from Variety’s report, is potentially troubling. "While Marvel’s Kevin Feige is involved with Sony’s new Spider-Man films, he is currently not expected to be creatively involved with the [Venom and Sinister Six] spinoffs, sources say." Why not? If this deal is truly going to work, shouldn’t he be?

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Weird...eal-69718.html

[Mike1981]

Originally Posted by CyberpunkCentral

lol, you're just proving my point that they are rushing things. Venom getting Spidey powers without any physical contact? Yeah... introducing the symbiote in The Avengers: Infinity War is a far better idea than this mess.

They don't need to explain everything. Just start with Venom already up and running.

Cramming more into Infinity War is a terrible idea.

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by CyberpunkCentral

lol, you're just proving my point that they are rushing things. Venom getting Spidey powers without any physical contact? Yeah... introducing the symbiote in The Avengers: Infinity War is a far better idea than this mess.

Fair enough. Like I said, MCU symbiote would've been better but in lieu of that, I'm willing to keep an open mind and see where they go. R-rated Venom is already encouraging, I remember reading some comic a while ago that basically turned the symbiote into the Thing and had it run amok in some Arctic facility (read it like 10 years ago, hazy memory of it). Good bit of violence. I'd like to see something like that (not inspired by the Thing, but that type of violence and gore) on the big screen.

[CyberpunkCentral]

Originally Posted by Batman1980

Only if you want venom in the MCU, I don't.

I want Venom with Spider-Man. That's what I want. People talk as if Venom is similar to characters like Deadpool and Wolverine. Difference is, you don't need the X-Men to make movies out of those two characters. Venom, however, is heavily tied to Spider-Man. You can't just simply ignore that.

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

Fair enough. Like I said, MCU symbiote would've been better but in lieu of that, I'm willing to keep an open mind and see where they go. R-rated Venom is already encouraging, I remember reading some comic a while ago that basically turned the symbiote into the Thing and had it run amok in some Arctic facility (read it like 10 years ago, hazy memory of it). Good bit of violence. I'd like to see something like that (not inspired by the Thing, but that type of violence and gore) on the big screen.

I'm trying to keep an open mind as well. I don't mind the idea of a Venom movie at all. It's the reason behind it that bothers me. This whole idea of a Spider-Man "cinematic universe" is SO forced down our throats that it's such a big turn off. Sony is like that uncle that took you to a casino when you were younger, and all you're doing is just sitting there watching him gamble and then he tells you, "aren't we having fun?". That's what Sony is like to me. They know that Venom has a loyal fan base. But they do not know the lore enough to know which direction is best for the character. They're like, derp! we don't care how tied he is with Spider-Man. Just make a Venom movie. This is what the fans want. It worked for Disney, Fox, and Warner Bros. herp to the derp. They don't know WTF fans want. Disney, Fox, and Warner Bros. doesn't make movies about side characters. Well, Gambit and Gotham City Sirens are debatable, but still. Characters like Deadpool and Wolverine are their own brands that are separated from the X-Men. Where as Venom (debatable), Silver Sable, Black Cat, Aunt May, The Sinister Six are all just Spider-Man side characters. Not characters that can start franchises.

[Mike1981]

How is Wolverine less tied to the X-Men?

[CyberpunkCentral]

Originally Posted by Mike1981

How is Wolverine less tied to the X-Men?

Wolverine is a loner and didn't even join X-Men until 1975. It's not like Venom where his origins are literally tied to Spider-Man.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

The symbiote connects with/kinda controls the mind of whoever it's latched onto. Brock is jealous of the fame and attention Spidey gets, and because Spidey may have stopped him during a crime or something. When the symbiote finds him, it taps into Brock's jealousy/hatred of Spidey and gives him similar powers. Boom, done. Took two minutes lol. It's not the canon origin story but it's different and can still work as a standalone movie without a need for Spidey.

I'd still like for Spidey to be involved, but reading that first sentence of the OP's last paragraph doesn't give me much confidence, plus Disney/Marvel will want nothing to do with an R-rated movie. I think they can still have a fully CG Spidey that shows up on news footage or in the distance somewhere, things like that. But making a decent Venom movie without Spidey isn't impossible. And I'm sure Sony is putting a little more thought into this than I just did.

At least I hope they are...

Could even do that with a pre-title sequence or an Incredible Hulk-style credits recap. Lots of ways to get around Spidey not fully featuring in these movies, but seeing as Sony still own the character (in a movie sense) I don't see how they'd be entirely sans Spidey as long as they're not referencing the MCU. Obviously Tom Holland's not gonna be starring in every single one anyway, but a wee cameo here and there would be enough, unless it's part of their current co-op that they cannot use Spidey for side projects at all while he's in the MCU.

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Could even do that with a pre-title sequence or an Incredible Hulk-style credits recap. Lots of ways to get around Spidey not fully featuring in these movies, but seeing as Sony still own the character (in a movie sense) I don't see how they'd be entirely sans Spidey as long as they're not referencing the MCU. Obviously Tom Holland's not gonna be starring in every single one anyway, but a wee cameo here and there would be enough, unless it's part of their current co-op that they cannot use Spidey for side projects at all while he's in the MCU.

That's what I'd like to get clarified, if anyone knows. Marvel/Disney would be smart to tell Sony NOT to use Spidey in any homegrown films, considering that they'd want their new-and-improved Spidey not to be tainted by appearing in any potentially subpar Sony product (and that concern would be justified lol). If the language allows for Spidey to make an appearance so long as it's not Tom Holland or so long as it's some nebulous Spidey who we never see as Peter Parker, then I think Sony has a LOT of wiggle room to do some pretty cool things. But even if it's flat-out "no Spidey at all," I'm sure there are ways to make this thing work without him.

[captveg]

The best way to approach this is to do it like the MCU TV shows - get Marvel to sign off on them being able to reference the regular MCU movie series, but knowing that nothing that happens in the Sony Marvel series will get brought over or even referenced in the regular Disney MCU series.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

That's what I'd like to get clarified, if anyone knows. Marvel/Disney would be smart to tell Sony NOT to use Spidey in any homegrown films, considering that they'd want their new-and-improved Spidey not to be tainted by appearing in any potentially subpar Sony product (and that concern would be justified lol). If the language allows for Spidey to make an appearance so long as it's not Tom Holland or so long as it's some nebulous Spidey who we never see as Peter Parker, then I think Sony has a LOT of wiggle room to do some pretty cool things. But even if it's flat-out "no Spidey at all," I'm sure there are ways to make this thing work without him.

They could always get Andrew Garfield back for a few cameos lol

[thunderforce]

This is dumb . The whole reason for putting Spiderman in the MCU is because with all the characters together they can team up and the movies will make more money . Not sure people will pay a lot for a tiny universe of Spiderman support characters when they will know they are not in the MCU . Sony should either be in or be out , to try and do both at the same time is not going to work .

[Mike1981]

Originally Posted by CyberpunkCentral

Wolverine is a loner and didn't even join X-Men until 1975. It's not like Venom where his origins are literally tied to Spider-Man.

Hey was created in 1974 and waited all the way until 1975 before joining the X-Men. I see your point...

[CyberpunkCentral]

To those who think adding Venom in The Avengers: Infinity War is a bad idea, I'm talking about just the symbiote suit itself. Not the character of Eddie Brock. The symbiote suit can just be an upgrade of Spidey's suit that Tony Stark created, by using the material he got from space. Which makes sense since The Avengers: Infinity War will partly take place in space after all. They don't have to touch upon about how symbiote suit has a mind of it's own or Spidey losing control over it until the Spider-Man: Homecoming sequels. This makes way more sense than all of the ideas you guys are throwing around about the Venom movie, yet adding the symbiote suit in The Avengers Infinity War is a bad idea? lol, okay.

Originally Posted by Mike1981

He was created in 1974 and waited all the way until 1975 before joining the X-Men. I see your point...

That's weird. I could have sworn Wolverine was created in the late 60s. Dammit, brain!

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

They could always get Andrew Garfield back for a few cameos lol

[Mike1981]

Originally Posted by CyberpunkCentral

That's weird. I could have sworn Wolverine was created in the late 60s. Dammit, brain!

No worries; just being snarky.

It's hard for me to agree the Venom is any more tied to Spider-Man than Wolverine is to the X-Men.

Outside of his origin, he's had enough solo stories where he functioned as much outside the Spider-Verse as Wolverine has. I still think Wolverine is strictly an X-Man as much as Venom is strictly a Spider-Man villain.

[CyberpunkCentral]

Originally Posted by Mike1981

No worries; just being snarky.

It's hard for me to agree the Venom is any more tied to Spider-Man than Wolverine is to the X-Men.

Outside of his origin, he's had enough solo stories where he functioned as much outside the Spider-Verse as Wolverine has. I still think Wolverine is strictly an X-Man as much as Venom is strictly a Spider-Man villain.

I know Venom has his own solo comic series. That's not the issue (no pun intended). The issue is that Sony is going straight towards a Venom movie without even setting up the character first in the Spider-Man films. So he's just going to be Venom right off the bat in his own movie? Errr, okay. Whatever. But if they try to make the Venom movie into an origin story, then that's not going to work. It would feel rushed and crammed. Especially if Sony can't use Spider-Man. I'm sure they can, but they can't use Tom Holland's Spider-Man. So yeah, no matter how you put it, this Venom movie just sounds very forced. As for characters tie-in in with other characters, I meant in terms of origins. Which you basically admitted that Venom's origins is tied to Spider-Man. But as far as we know, Wolverine's origins don't involve the X-Men and we could assume tha he had his own adventures before he joined the team.