Terminator 2 - 4K Remaster ?

[TheFalsetto]

I don't get it ... why hasn't the most popular action film of all time been remastered in 4K yet ? they could shift this film by the boat load, surely.

I really need this in 4K I just can't handle the poor quality of the bluray I have in my home theatre system.

[StingingVelvet]

They just finished the remaster I believe, ahead of a 3D release later this year. Will surely be on BD after that, and hopefully UHD. I hear whispers it's been teal'd, but I am too scared to check the BD section thread to confirm.

[Ihavecandygetnthevan]

Originally Posted by TheFalsetto

I don't get it ... why hasn't the most popular action film of all time been remastered in 4K yet ? they could shift this film by the boat load, surely.

I really need this in 4K I just can't handle the poor quality of the bluray I have in my home theatre system.

this didn't need a thread

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...274160&page=42

[EbonDragon]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

They just finished the remaster I believe, ahead of a 3D release later this year. Will surely be on BD after that, and hopefully UHD. I hear whispers it's been teal'd, but I am too scared to check the BD section thread to confirm.

Teal'd? I'm not too up to date on coloring and mastering defects and such, is that good or bad? Does it mess with the original color timing or restore it?

[philochs]

Originally Posted by EbonDragon

Teal'd? I'm not too up to date on coloring and mastering defects and such, is that good or bad? Does it mess with the original color timing or restore it?

Teal'd is definitely bad. It means they went and added heavy teal coloring at lest to certain scenes, stuff that wasn't there on the original theatrical prints. In the days of LaserDisc they tried to emulate an old film print, as far as color grading goes. Now that digital manipulation is a thing, at the start of the digital film age it became popular to add heavy tints to movies. Suicide squad has a yellow tint, some other movie has another color tint, ect. James Cameron and those he works with are big fans of adding teal to everything they remaster. Aliens on Blu-ray, everything is teal. In the real version of the movie, there were some parts that were using blue hues to dramatic effect, blue is slightly different than teal, of course. Now those scenes are teal instead of blue on the Blu-ray.

In T2, it used to be the in the future wars scenes there was no teal tint at all, so the skulls were ivory/bone color and the color was neutral, now they've release a preview of the 4K remaster, and it opens with a 'future war' scene and it's awash in teal. It's very revisionist, it's like the digital enhanced versions of the original Star Wars films.

Basically James Cameron has moved on to other things, projects he cares more about. He let his color guy grade the remaster, then he looked at it for 5 seconds and gave his approval. He loves adding teal to his old films for some odd reason, he thinks it's an improvement. If most fans were aware of this stuff, 99% would probably prefer the color grading to try and match a theatrical print. In many cases that is what color graders are using as a reference, but not for James Cameron films. It''s like he's ashamed of the theatrical prints cause they're not 'smurf' enough. The remaster of the original Terminator got a new 'heavy teal' grade, so everyone should have expected T2 would be more of the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnjrhlzJRwU

[EbonDragon]

Originally Posted by philochs

Teal'd is definitely bad. It means they went and added heavy teal coloring at lest to certain scenes, stuff that wasn't there on the original theatrical prints. In the days of LaserDisc they tried to emulate an old film print, as far as color grading goes. Now that digital manipulation is a thing, at the start of the digital film age it became popular to add heavy tints to movies. Suicide squad has a yellow tint, some other movie has another color tint, ect. James Cameron and those he works with are big fans of adding teal to everything they remaster. Aliens on Blu-ray, everything is teal. In the real version of the movie, there were some parts that were using blue hues to dramatic effect, blue is slightly different than teal, of course. Now those scenes are teal instead of blue on the Blu-ray.

In T2, it used to be the in the future wars scenes there was no teal tint at all, so the skulls were ivory/bone color and the color was neutral, now they've release a preview of the 4K remaster, and it opens with a 'future war' scene and it's awash in teal. It's very revisionist, it's like the digital enhanced versions of the original Star Wars films.

Basically James Cameron has moved on to other things, projects he cares more about. He let his color guy grade the remaster, then he looked at it for 5 seconds and gave his approval. He loves adding teal to his old films for some odd reason, he thinks it's an improvement. If most fans were aware of this stuff, 99% would probably prefer the color grading to try and match a theatrical print. In many cases that is what color graders are using as a reference, but not for James Cameron films. It''s like he's ashamed of the theatrical prints cause they're not 'smurf' enough. The remaster of the original Terminator got a new 'heavy teal' grade, so everyone should have expected T2 would be more of the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnjrhlzJRwU

Gross and disappointing. I've always seen the films in my head as being bathed in blue at night. Now I want to see it as originally intended :/

[rockin]

My worry is whether they are going to be scrubbing the picture even more than the Skynet edition with DNR in 4K UHD, which renders the whole point of it in 4K UHD pretty much useless. I have feeling they will do that for the 3D, which the 2D 4K DI will derive from.

[philochs]

Originally Posted by EbonDragon

Gross and disappointing. I've always seen the films in my head as being bathed in blue at night. Now I want to see it as originally intended :/

It used to be adding a color tint to a scene in a film was a process. Once it could be done with the click of a mouse, things quickly got out of hand. It's one thing that they do it to new films and show them that way in the initial theatrical viewing, but adding tints to catalog films is something else, and it's widespread. But it's like they say in La La Land, LA worships everything and values nothing.

Originally Posted by rockin

My worry is whether they are going to be scrubbing the picture even more than the Skynet edition with DNR in 4K UHD, which renders the whole point of it in 4K UHD pretty much useless. I have feeling they will do that for the 3D, which the 2D 4K DI will derive from.

Well actually they did a 4K scan and DI first, and then the 3D version was derived from that. As far as DNR, I think the 3D Blu-ray which has been announced will be thoroughly DNR scrubbed, you can't see a hint of film grain on the new trailer. It's not a pointless scan though, even with the teal tints and DNR, this remastered version looks incredible.

I've watched it at least 20 times now. The new trailer for the 3D version which is technically a 2D trailer, showcases the new remaster, and it looks a lot better than any of the current Blu-ray editions of T2,Skynet or otherwise. This title has only been announced for 3D Blu-ray, there's been no mention of a 2D remaster version getting released in 1080p or UHD Blu-ray. 3D Blu-ray is confirmed, that's it. They may wait years to announce Terminator 1&2 on UHD, they may tie it in with the next theatrical release in the franchise, or it may get announced in 5 months, we have no clue. If it does get announced for 4K, maybe the first edition will be low bit-rate and DNR heavy, but then the Japanese import version will be higher bitrate and not so heavy DNR. We just don't know yet, finger's crossed.

[OutOfBoose]

If the 4k trailer looks like the final release color-wise, it's not really like the blu-ray. But it doesn't have any absurd change in color. All blue scenes are still blue, not teal. The only major change I see is the first encounter between the two terminators. It's greenish, but I don't have any problem with it, personally.

[philochs]

Originally Posted by HDvision

I saw it there is no teal. It's 97% like the Blu-ray colors, as the latest 4K trailer shows. End of teal discussion.
Don't waste time basing your opinion on a badly compressed trailer some intern recompressed and recolored timed to justify is existence.

The 3D version is DNRed except for the faces which are kept intact. No wrinkle is erased, it's all there.

Get ready to throw away all you old DVDs and BDs. This is the real thing.

yep, you saw it, no tint to see here folks, I and others must have just imagined the obvious teal tints in the future wars scenes, and in the other darker scenes, problem solved! End of discussion! lol

I've done side by side comparisons, even the skynet Blu-ray is not teal in the future wars scene like it is in the new trailer, we can accurately gauge from the trailer that this teal tinting is part of the remastered color grading, it's a fact. It's not 97% the same, you're just making things up. You don't notice the tint in every scene if it's daylight, but when compared directly with the color from a theatrical print, side by side, you would notice a big difference. There was no tinting added in the theatrical prints, back when such a thing would have had to have been done optically. Analog vs digital realms.

[OutOfBoose]

Some detailed close-ups look incredible even with DNR. Other look waxy as hell. I pray the 2D version is much better...

[philochs]

Originally Posted by HDvision

Doh, the BD will come with both editions, 2D and 3D please stop spreading FUD.

Many titles come out as Blu-ray 3D / Blu-ray combo but not all of them. Only the 3D blu-ray has been announced, there hasn't been an announcement of any 2D disk included as a combo, not that I can find. Where is your link to such a source? Please provide it! I mean, I'm sure it will come out with a 2D blu-ray combo too, but it's not formally announced that I've seen.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by HDvision

I saw it there is no teal. It's 97% like the Blu-ray colors, as the latest 4K trailer shows. End of teal discussion.

Great to hear. I've been avoiding the whole thing, so your post makes me muoy happy like Jar Jar Binks.

[philochs]

Originally Posted by HDvision

Worry not, it's like a veil was unlifted from the film. There might be some slight differences due to some shots looking colored like they did in the theater instead of the old home video versions, but overall, it's a feast for the eyes.

I'm also certain that the DNred version will be 3D only, with the 2D version looking with a good amount of grain. You have to understand that 3D demand some kind of degraining to avoid artefacts.

Although I was 8, I saw this film multiple times in the early 90's when it was released theatrically. It's obvious you just make things up and then claim "I'm certain". Um, no you're not. Likely the 2D version of the 4k remaster will use a lot of DNR, it's the way he releases his films on Blu-ray, for better or worse. The US versions of Terminator 2 Blu-rays use DNR, while the Japanese version has a superior encode, and we don't know yet if the remaster will be a similar scenario, but that certainly seems more likely. Heck, the remastered version of Terminator that came out in 2015 still uses heavy blue tinting and DNR, so believing the T2 remaster will be a radical departure from that norm is frankly just wishful thinking.

They did not use a theatrical print to color grade this movie, and while most of what you say has a ring of truth to it, some of it is just wrong. Understand that the blue/teal tints in the darker scenes, such as the future wars, are not on the original film prints, at least not always to the same degree. Not in Terminator 1 or 2. Understand that doing color tints optically was a process back in the day. It was used on T2 theatrically, just not in as many scenes, and not always as heavily blue/teal. The copies have gotten Bluer since the days of Laser Disk. James Cameron only began to add new tints to his old films digitally starting in the 21st century.

You claim that they color graded this version to match a film print, while the other home video versions didn't ...

[Show spoiler]

[philochs]

T2 Laser Disk version (Color grading based off the theatrical print):



T2 Blu-ray version (Color grading based off the opinions of the digital colorist):



Screen caps from an 8mm film print, original theatrical color grade:



On the DVDs and Blu-rays there is also added orange tints in the factory scene at the end, which weren't done for the theatrical release, which looked yellower. Orange and Teal is credited with being more ‘involving’ than more natural color schemes.

[puddy77]

Technicolor tweeted that they did the HDR grade for this.

https://twitter.com/TechnicolorCrea/...87032427368448

"I'll be back."
He wasn't kidding... James Cameron's Terminator 2 is coming in 3D!
Color & HDR grade by Technicolor

[philochs]

Originally Posted by puddy77

Technicolor tweeted that they did the HDR grade for this.

https://twitter.com/TechnicolorCrea/...87032427368448

Cool news. I already saw James Cameron talking about his own team his color grader that graded it, and then he gave approval. I wonder how that works, Cameron's team gets it scanned and his guy color grades it, then Technicolor color grades it? Doesn't that mean it got color graded twice? Awesome to read about an HDR grade, doesn't that indicate that there's a good chance for a 4K UHD Blu-ray version after the 3D theatrical release? Did Technicolor only color grade the HDR version? The 3D version isn't using the HDR grade is it? Imax Laser or something? Interesting, but confusing.

[azmodeous]

Man, that HDR pass news gives me hope we'll see a UHD release of this. Crossing fingers here.

[philochs]

Originally Posted by HDvision

More like Kimball graded it at Technicolor.

I see, James Cameron liked to use Skip Kimball before Skip even worked at Technicolor, Skip was the guy he used on Avatar. Okay, that makes sense.

Back in 2012, I talked to a guy who had worked directly with James Cameron on a project. That guy had nothing but bad things to say, about how much of a jerk James Cameron was and such. I've read that he's mellowed out and no longer bullies people around on set, that's good. Seems like he made better movies when he was an a*****e, though.

[Staying Salty]

Originally Posted by azmodeous

Man, that HDR pass news gives me hope we'll see a UHD release of this. Crossing fingers here.

My Magic 8-Ball says "T2 DV"!