whatever happened to PCM

[Lord_Stewie]

hey guys,

its been a while for me to follow up on news and etc....

but I was wondering what is going on with the Whole uncompressed PCM being provided with the new releases for a while.

I kinda wanted to have PCM with the Dark Knight. it would have been better. wouldn't it.

[JJ]

They are all the same thing. Seriously. The DTS-HD MA and TrueHD just take up less disc space, allowing for better extras and/or increase in PQ.

[Lord_Stewie]

Originally Posted by JJxiv1215

They are all the same thing. Seriously. The DTS-HD MA and TrueHD just take up less disc space, allowing for better extras and/or increase in PQ.

are you saying they gave it up for increase in PQ?

[brett_day]

Originally Posted by JJxiv1215

They are all the same thing. Seriously. The DTS-HD MA and TrueHD just take up less disc space, allowing for better extras and/or increase in PQ.

how are they the same? just thinking that if they take up less disc space that means that dts-hd ma true hd are compressed more than pcm correct? if so then how are they the same, surely their quality would be slightly worse?

[JJ]

No, no, I'm saying that they gave it up to allow there to be more space on the disc whether for extras or PQ. Whether they actually use the space, I'm not knowledgeable enough on the policies and practices of film companies to comment on that.

Brett, they are the same. Hold on, I'm going to see if I can find this onepost from one of our audio insiders that clears up this common misconception that they are different...

[Lord_Stewie]

Originally Posted by JJxiv1215

No, no, I'm saying that they gave it up to allow there to be more space on the disc whether for extras or PQ. Whether they actually use the space, I'm not knowledgeable enough on the policies and practices of film companies to comment on that.

Brett, they are the same. Hold on, I'm going to see if I can find this onepost from one of our audio insiders that clears up this common misconception that they are different...

let me know I am still somewhat confused about this. I mean I know what you are saying, but i thought the reason for the space in a single BD disc is to utilize both PQ and AQ, which is why I went for BD rather than HDDVD. to me without the Best AQ provided then PQ means nothing to me. they both complete each other if you know what i mean.

[brett_day]

Originally Posted by JJxiv1215

No, no, I'm saying that they gave it up to allow there to be more space on the disc whether for extras or PQ. Whether they actually use the space, I'm not knowledgeable enough on the policies and practices of film companies to comment on that.

Brett, they are the same. Hold on, I'm going to see if I can find this onepost from one of our audio insiders that clears up this common misconception that they are different...

not doubting dude, just wondering, but will good to see the article, always good to learn something new

[saprano]

DTS-MA and dolby TrueHD are both PCM, there just compressed first then uncompressed to save disc space. PCM is raw with no mix being done, its just gets thrown on the disc.

But having said that i happen to like dts and PCM over DTHD.

[Lord_Stewie]

Originally Posted by saprano

DTS-MA and dolby TrueHD are both PCM, there just compressed first then uncompressed to save disc space. PCM is raw with no mix being done, its just gets thrown on the disc.

But having said that i happen to like dts and PCM over DTHD.

Speaking DTS and PCM Comparison to DTHD what are the differences. I kinda want to understand it. I know the whole idea of a dolby digital 5.1.

[Marcusarilius]

Originally Posted by shadblz

Speaking DTS and PCM Comparison to DTHD what are the differences. I kinda want to understand it. I know the whole idea of a dolby digital 5.1.

I'm sure this has been talked about many times here. I have a pretty good sound system and I swear I can always hear the difference between Dolby True HD and DTS HDMA. I personally prefere DTS HDMA by a long shot. The impact and dynamics of sound through all speakers and subwoofer is always clearly apparent to me compared to DD True HD. I think I have only one disk with PCM.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by Marcusarilius

I'm sure this has been talked about many times here. I have a pretty good sound system and I swear I can always hear the difference between Dolby True HD and DTS HDMA. I personally prefere DTS HDMA by a long shot. The impact and dynamics of sound through all speakers and subwoofer is always clearly apparent to me compared to DD True HD. I think I have only one disk with PCM.

Marcus, what discs do you have that have both of these audio tracks that allow for an unbiased assessment of the quality?

((still looking for that one post, chaps))

[Lord_Stewie]

Originally Posted by JJxiv1215

Marcus, what discs do you have that have both of these audio tracks that allow for an unbiased assessment of the quality?

((still looking for that one post, chaps))

its cool take your time, here is the thing about it i still don't understand why they give uncompressed PCM when it was the best out there. I believe Apocalypto was one or the titles that has both of these audio tracks. but then again I maybe wrong.

[Marcusarilius]

Originally Posted by JJxiv1215

Marcus, what discs do you have that have both of these audio tracks that allow for an unbiased assessment of the quality?

((still looking for that one post, chaps))

We all know that does not exist. I'm talking about listening to scores of BD sound tracks with True HD and DTS HDMA. Over time, it has become very transparent to me that DTS simply sounds better. The argument exists that there is no diiference, but there is a difference in dynamics with DTS. I wish all disks were encoded with DTS HDMA.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by shadblz

Speaking DTS and PCM Comparison to DTHD what are the differences. I kinda want to understand it. I know the whole idea of a dolby digital 5.1.

I suggest that you read a A Guide to Home Theater Audio Codecs.

Unfortunately, people confuse the way audio engineers mix the sound track with the codec. There are absolutely no differences between the sound quality of the three codecs. However, I can make any one of them sound better than the other two with audio tricks. In most cases, people associate loudness with better quality.

The vast majority of the global population that uses sub-par equipment and are not technologically advanced, cannot tell the difference between the lossy Dolby Digital & DTS digital with the PCM, Dolby True HD, & DTS HD MA. Even the so called technologically advanced people forget that the original sound is not PCM. Sound is essentially analog. PCM is a technique of converting analog sound to digital. In theory, you can make the argument that analog sound is better than digital.

Warning: If I see one more thread that claims one audio codec is superior to the other, I will go to the top of the Empire State Building on New Year's Eve and jump. We have had multiple threads about this. Every few days, a new one grows under a different title. Please stop it. It gives me a headache.

Don't take my threat seriously. I was just kidding. That line is from Meet John Doe (1941), one of Frank Capra's masterpieces. Watch it.

[JJ]

(Actually, the Top Gun one does - but then, that is a mix issue - the TrueHD track is the original theater track from the 80s, while the DTS-HD MA is a recent re-mix that threw in a crapload of LFE to the music)

It is a widely noted situation that it is more the mix of a movie than the true codec. The codec is only the messenger for what it is given. Back when IndyJ4 came out and there were remarks such as "oh I wish it had a dtshdma soundtrack because the bass is too low" - it was stated by one of the audio insiders that it was due to the mix created.

Although, I'm not going to lie, some of my favorite sonic experiences are DTS-HD MA, but until one has a complete unbiased assessment of one disc with the two tracks made from identical masters and mixes, its going to be quite difficult to prove this with any certainty, hence my continued assertion that all three are the same. But everyone's ears are different, so far be it for me to try to convince anyone that they are all the same when they adhere to the principle that they aren't -

Until someone with respectable authority comes out and says, "they're all the same" - I feel like everyone here could say they are, but all for naught.

And whilst I typed this, Daddy-o threatened suicide. Alas, there you have it.

[Lord_Stewie]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

I suggest that you read a A Guide to Home Theater Audio Codecs.

Unfortunately, people confuse the way audio engineers mix the sound track with the codec. There are absolutely no differences between the sound quality of the three codecs. However, I can make any one of them sound better than the other two with audio tricks. In most cases, people associate loudness with better quality.

The vast majority of the global population that uses sub-par equipment and are not technologically advanced, cannot tell the difference between the lossy Dolby Digital & DTS digital with the PCM, Dolby True HD, & DTS HD MA. Even the so called technologically advanced people forget that the original sound is not PCM. Sound is essentially analog. PCM is a technique of converting analog sound to digital. In theory, you can make the argument that analog sound is better than digital.

Warning: If I see one more thread that claims one audio codec is superior to the other, I will go to the top of the Empire State Building on New Year's Eve and jump. We have had multiple threads about this. Every few days, a new one grows under a different title. Please stop it. It gives me a headache.

Don't take my threat seriously. I was just kidding. That line is from Meet John Doe (1941), one of Frank Capra's masterpieces. Watch it.

I see your point. just don't jump off the empire state building, I am sure the Statue of Liberty would be an ideal place for that.

kidding don't DO IT.

[Lord_Stewie]

Originally Posted by JJxiv1215

(Actually, the Top Gun one does - but then, that is a mix issue - the TrueHD track is the original theater track from the 80s, while the DTS-HD MA is a recent re-mix that threw in a crapload of LFE to the music)

It is a widely noted situation that it is more the mix of a movie than the true codec. The codec is only the messenger for what it is given. Back when IndyJ4 came out and there were remarks such as "oh I wish it had a dtshdma soundtrack because the bass is too low" - it was stated by one of the audio insiders that it was due to the mix created.

Although, I'm not going to lie, some of my favorite sonic experiences are DTS-HD MA, but until one has a complete unbiased assessment of one disc with the two tracks made from identical masters and mixes, its going to be quite difficult to prove this with any certainty, hence my continued assertion that all three are the same. But everyone's ears are different, so far be it for me to try to convince anyone that they are all the same when they adhere to the principle that they aren't -

Until someone with respectable authority comes out and says, "they're all the same" - I feel like everyone here could say they are, but all for naught.

And whilst I typed this, Daddy-o threatened suicide. Alas, there you have it.

But what i am wondering what are the differences in terms of how a buzz sounds like when using different audio types such as a PCM, or a DTS HDMA. Forgive me for this I liked PCM because i thought it was able to utilize surroundings better than rest, but that is my personal opinion based on how I hear things.

[bootman]

PCM was only a stop gap until the OEMs could make HD Audio (in the form of TrueHD and DTS MA) mainstream.
It happened when receivers with them hit $400.

After all Dolby and DTS needs a taste of the action too.

For the SQ issue think of them as ZIPed versions of PCM.

[Marcusarilius]

Question: When DTS first hit theaters, (Jurrasic Park) did anyone notice the difference from the standard uncompressed DD? I sure did and chose the theaters that were playing movie X in DTS as to the theaters playing same movie X with DD.

Maybe we are getting off topic a bit. I will have to search for the few PCM disk(s) I own and see how they sound compared to DD True HD and DTS HDMA. Got me curious now...

[JJ]

Originally Posted by Marcusarilius

Question: When DTS first hit theaters, (Jurrasic Park) did anyone notice the difference from the standard uncompressed DD? I sure did and chose the theaters that were playing movie X as to the theaters playing same movie X with DD.

Maybe we are getting off topic a bit. I will have to search for the few PCM disk(s) I own and see how they sound compared to DD True HD and DTS HDMA. Got me curious now...

Jurassic Park was, err...remixed for DTS, if I remember correctly. Steven Spielberg was behind DTS and JP, anyway.