Uncompressed or Dolby Digital?

[bluflu]

What's better, DTS at 1.5 Mb/s, or DD+ at 1.5 Mb/s?

[leukoplast]

Originally Posted by Jagster

Guys correct me if I am wrong, but to enjoy PCM don't you have to have a HDMI input on your receiver? I thought the PS3 passes the PCM audio only through the HDMI cable. My receiver does not have HDMI, so I had to use the optical input. Because of this I chose bit-stream and not PCM on my PS3. I could be totally wrong here, so let me know as I would like to enjoy the best audio for my home theatre set-up.

Well, I dunno about composite audio cables, but I know that LPCM-multichannel over optical can only do 2.1 channels. But HDMI can carry 5.1+

So to get true uncompressed surround from PCM, you would need an HDMI connection.

[greatfenris]

But, just to get things right, isn't the receiver an issue too? As far as I know (which isn't that much btw), and concerning the ps3, you need to have a receiver with an HDMI-In an the ability to get along with PCM 5.1. Since some of the posts sound as if it isn't needed (at least it seems to me after reading). Right or wrong?

[leukoplast]

Yeah, the HDMI will give you 5.1+ channels, so invariably you would need a HDMI-in to be able to do PCM multichannel 5.1 or up.

[greatfenris]

So, is every Receiver with HDMI-IN able to handle Multi Channel-PCM? I thought only a few were able to do that.

[zombieking]

There isn't really anything more informative I can tell you that already hasn't been posted, so let me just say welcome and thank-you for your first thread not asking when Star Wars or LOTR will be available on blu-ray

[leukoplast]

Originally Posted by greatfenris

So, is every Receiver with HDMI-IN able to handle Multi Channel-PCM? I thought only a few were able to do that.

As I said in a previous post, I think (just think) that you can also do multichannel PCM via analog cables. Like multichannel-in and having 6 separate cords (signifying each channel) going to the receiver.

This is analog multichannel. And I believe by hooking a receiver to the source output device, you can get multichannel PCM uncompressed.


That and optical can do 2.1, but HDMI can do all the rest.

So to answer your question, yes, multichannel PCM is nothing new, and is supported by many old, old receivers. Really anything with a optical or multi-channel analog in will support PCM multichannel.

However the receiver does not need to have a HDMI in to get multichannel PCM. Heck I had a 6 year old Sony receiver that only has optical in, and I got uncompressed PCM (wasn't more than 2.1 channel though).

[GoldenRedux]

Originally Posted by greatfenris

So, is every Receiver with HDMI-IN able to handle Multi Channel-PCM? I thought only a few were able to do that.

Not every receiver with HDMI inputs can handle multichannel PCM. Some of them simply act as HDMI switchers or switchers/scalers. You specifically need to find a receiver that can handle high resolution multichannel PCM. You are correct that there are only a few that actually do this.

[GoldenRedux]

Originally Posted by leukoplast

As I said in a previous post, I think (just think) that you can also do multichannel PCM via analog cables. Like multichannel-in and having 6 separate cords (signifying each channel) going to the receiver.

You don't have to 'just think' . I already answered this in a previous post. You're correct that multichannel PCM can be output to any receiver that has analogue multichannel inputs. My receiver has two sets of them - one 5.1 and one 7.1. I connect my Panasonic DMP-BD10 Blu-ray player's 7.1 analogue multichannel outputs to my receiver's 7.1 analogue multichannel inputs, and I get to listen to uncompressed PCM, TrueHD, and DTS-HD HR soundtracks, as the Panny decodes those two codecs as well and passes them as PCM via HDMI and the analogue multichannel outs.

That and optical can do 2.1, but HDMI can do all the rest.

Actually, optical/coax can do 48/24 5.1 LPCM, and tops out at 96/24 2.0, IIRC. Some receivers may or may not then add a .1 or 'LFE' channel, meaning, do bass management, on a LPCM 96/24 signal.

[leukoplast]

Originally Posted by GoldenRedux

You don't have to 'just think' . I already answered this in a previous post. You're correct that multichannel PCM can be output to any receiver that has analogue multichannel inputs. My receiver has two sets of them - one 5.1 and one 7.1. I connect my Panasonic DMP-BD10 Blu-ray player's 7.1 analogue multichannel outputs to my receiver's 7.1 analogue multichannel inputs, and I get to listen to uncompressed PCM, TrueHD, and DTS-HD HR soundtracks, as the Panny decodes those two codecs as well and passes them as PCM via HDMI and the analogue multichannel outs.

Actually, optical/coax can do 48/24 5.1 LPCM, and tops out at 96/24 2.0, IIRC. Some receivers may or may not then add a .1 or 'LFE' channel, meaning, do bass management, on a LPCM 96/24 signal.

Good, thank you for answering that question Now I can know for sure.

Also, about optical and LPCM. I was only able to get stereo uncompressed PCM while watching the Fifth element. But when it was in HDMI, it did (at least) main/center/main

Reason I say at least is cause I currently don't have my backs connected.

But that stands to reason that optical can only pass 2.1 uncompressed. And not by my own experience but I have read other things that point in that direction as well. (Although nothing in concrete)

Also, here is further interesting info from my PS3 menus.

I can manually choose which sound I want for each audio option (HDMI, optical etc) and here is the list of supported formats via optical.

(BTW first one says Dolby Digital 5.1...but my cam doesn't pick up the bright whites in the TV very well)



So by this example, it seems either the PS3 cannot send more than a 2.1 LPCM, or its just impossible with optical. I would have to go with the latter on this, since the PS3 is quite the techno marvel.

And here is the HDMI options list, which has a heck of a lot more options. (left a few out of the pic...didn't want 3 pics for the HDMI list, lol.)

[digital.view]

Interesting. I'd always wondered if I was getting the full spectrum using toslink. Guess not.

[PeterTHX]

HDMI bandwidth is measured in gigabits.

Toslink was good enough for the 90's, but with stuff like uncompressed multichannel 24 bit PCM it can't handle the new formats.

[jcs913]

So by this example, it seems either the PS3 cannot send more than a 2.1 LPCM, or its just impossible with optical. I would have to go with the latter on this, since the PS3 is quite the techno marvel.

And here is the HDMI options list, which has a heck of a lot more options. (left a few out of the pic...didn't want 3 pics for the HDMI list, lol.)



[/QUOTE]

I always found it interesting that the True HD is not an option in the menu since the PS3 decodes it. By the way, why does it seem that most people have Linear PCM checked off. If you are running an HDMI cable to a capable receiver, don't you want the receiver to do the decoding for you? I have an Elite 82 and it decodes all forms of PCM, DD and DTS. I am pretty sure that it's DAC's are better than the PS3's decoding of the codecs. The only time I use the Linear PCM options is through the Dolby TrueHD track, where I need the PS3 to decode it and send it PCM. I am curious to others thoughts on my setup.

[leukoplast]

Originally Posted by jcs913

I always found it interesting that the True HD is not an option in the menu since the PS3 decodes it. By the way, why does it seem that most people have Linear PCM checked off. If you are running an HDMI cable to a capable receiver, don't you want the receiver to do the decoding for you? I have an Elite 82 and it decodes all forms of PCM, DD and DTS. I am pretty sure that it's DAC's are better than the PS3's decoding of the codecs. The only time I use the Linear PCM options is through the Dolby TrueHD track, where I need the PS3 to decode it and send it PCM. I am curious to others thoughts on my setup.

I think the reason Dolby THD isn't there, cause the list of audio options is what the PS3 passes along. And it can't pass the Dolby THD, but as 7.1 LPCM.

And I have everything checked, since PCM is really the only option for the PS3 and the new audio formats.

As it cant pass certain bitstreams. Not to mention when I have it set to bitstream, some sounds don't occur, like on meuns and stuff.

[Gallis]

Zaphod, and everyone else who responded, thanks a ton for answering my question. I am glad I made the right decision and watched the movie with uncompressed audio. I'll never go back to DD with Blu Ray. I'm assuming uncompressed is an option of all BD movies. Thanks a ton in advance folks!

[digital.view]

Originally Posted by leukoplast

I think the reason Dolby THD isn't there, cause the list of audio options is what the PS3 passes along. And it can't pass the Dolby THD, but as 7.1 LPCM.

And I have everything checked, since PCM is really the only option for the PS3 and the new audio formats.

As it cant pass certain bitstreams. Not to mention when I have it set to bitstream, some sounds don't occur, like on meuns and stuff.

What you are saying is that currently, the PS3 "understands" how to decompress DTHD, but passes it as LPCM to the receiver?

[Zaphod]

Originally Posted by digital.view

What you are saying is that currently, the PS3 "understands" how to decompress DTHD, but passes it as LPCM to the receiver?

Correct, the PS3 has built into it the required (either software or hardware) information to decode the Dolby TrueHD track onboard and then pass it along to the receiver via LPCM. Unfortunately there is no way to pass the bitstream of Dolby TrueHD from the PS3 to the receiver...yet.

[digital.view]

Originally Posted by Zaphod

Correct, the PS3 has built into it the required (either software or hardware) information to decode the Dolby TrueHD track onboard and then pass it along to the receiver via LPCM. Unfortunately there is no way to pass the bitstream of Dolby TrueHD from the PS3 to the receiver...yet.

What would be the benefit of sending a DTHD bitstream from PS3 to receiver?

Isn't that doing the same thing? Uncompressing the DTHD, then sending it to the ones receiver as bitstream to be converted to analog?

[leukoplast]

Originally Posted by Zaphod

Correct, the PS3 has built into it the required (either software or hardware) information to decode the Dolby TrueHD track onboard and then pass it along to the receiver via LPCM. Unfortunately there is no way to pass the bitstream of Dolby TrueHD from the PS3 to the receiver...yet.

Don't count on any of the current PS3's to do it, this is a hardware issue. Seems when they implemented HDMI 1.3 on the PS3, they got a early version that is incapable of passing bitstream with the new lossless formats.

So unless they decide to start putting the newer HDMI 1.3 on the 80GB models, you will never be able to bitstream DTS-HDMA or Dolby TrueHD from the PS3. You will only be able to internally decode them, and have it go out as LPCM. But from what Ive been told, there is no difference besides the PS3 decoding it, instead of the receiver.

[DaViD Boulet]

TrueHD upon decompression is a bit-for-bit identical copy of the uncompressed PCM source from which it is taken, so it should be no better or no worse. See the post directly above.

this is only true if there is no dialog-normalization post-processing applied to the signal. DN processing is REQUIRED if the flag is set, in which case every bit-value is re-calculated and the amplitude of the waveform is reduced in the digital domain... think of it as down-scaling the audio prior to d/a.

This is one reason I don't like TrueHD as much as DTS MA. Dolby sets the DN flag as a matter of course during encoding... so only a mastering engineer really thinking about things would ever bother to modify the preset value.

Sony has taken great care to avoid DN flags on their TrueHD on BD titles. Sony, therefore, is the only studio releasing TrueHD streams that actually offer bit-for-bit accuracy during playback.