Ghost in the Shell 2 Innocence (US release from Bandai) is a BD-25 with Dolby Digital

[Cordre69]

Well...just how much better than the DVD is it? I know it's going to be better, but since I'm not a HUGE fan and I have the DVD already...what makes me want to upgrade my own copy?

[GGX]

Originally Posted by Cordre69

what makes me want to upgrade my own copy?

Is this some sort of trick question?

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by GGX

This isn't a matter of me not liking niche releases. The problem is Bandai (a major studio) taking short cuts. As evident by the Japanese release of Innocence.

Bandai's not a "major studio". Major studio would be Disney, Paramount, Fox, etc.

They might be big in Japan where anime has a major market, but in America, I'd guess that they're more known as a toy company that has some anime distribution-- some people familiar with the brand might not even be aware they have anime at all. In the US, the "biggest" anime company is Funimation, and even they're not a "major studio".

And again, the reason they can have a release with additional work in Japan (that was quoted as having been done by Disney anyway) is because they can have confidence that it will sell well over there. The US is a whole different story for anime consumption. America is not worth risking a large investment in anime on a new format. I think it's hilarious that you'd rather limit availability of this title to DVD only than live with a less-than-perfect BD release.

[AnimeOnBlu]

Glad I have both Japanese releases. This is just pathetic. Funimation can do lossless audio for OL/Dub but Bandai Entertainment can't do one? This doesn't bode well for The Girl Who Leapt Through Time and Sword of the Stranger. If those don't have lossless, I won't waste my money.

[GGX]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

I think it's hilarious that you'd rather limit availability of this title to DVD only than live with a less-than-perfect BD release.

And I think its quite sad that you find sub-par releases acceptable. What a joke.

[F-Man]

Originally Posted by GGX

And I think its quite sad that you find sub-par releases acceptable. What a joke.

Do you not see his point that they cannot afford it? It's either that, or they make only a DVD. DVD is even more sup-par.

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by F-Man

DVD is even more sup-par.

Exactly. If given the choice of this less-than-ideal BD release or a DVD release, I would certainly choose the BD.

And that is the situation we are talking about here. Either I choose to buy this BD or I must stick with the DVD release.

I really think the best course of action here is to either buy the disc and live with the choice or go out of your way to point out to the company that the Japanese release is a higher quality and likely may steal some of their business. Don't just refuse to buy it, that won't do anyone any good. Send them an e-mail detailing why their American release isn't as good as the Japanese and point out that plenty of Americans will import the Japanese because it's the same region.

ps

I think its quite sad that you find sub-par releases acceptable.

It's not "subpar". If it were subpar that would mean it is below the standard. Now, I'll give you that the standard it is using is not the birdie or eagle you're looking for, but it is certainly par for the course; this lossy audio is an established standard for feature releases on Blu-ray whether you like it or not. Again, you're falling into the idea that if something isn't ideal, it's bad. This is not true, and it is not the case here.

pps i read the link a little closer and it says the dub is mechanically distorted or something so i'll probably be skipping this thing regardless rofl Maybe if I ever care enough, I'll grab an import and print myself up an English cover for the case. Been a pleasure arguing with you lot though anyway

[reiella]

Actually, in general, I'm alot less likly to buy a title on DVD myself. Independant of there being a BD release for it or not.

I'm far more likly to impulse buy [be it at store or amazon 1-click :P] a movie if it's on blu. Take GitS 2 for instance. Haven't bought it yet, prolly will buy it when it comes out on Blu, but if it doesn't/didn't, I prolly wouldn't bother. And if the quality is poor for a blu, with a title in general [not specifically this one, mind you] I may pass on the title as a whole. And well lack of a lossless audio option is a pet peeve of mine. And titles that come out with that validate that annoying little talking point from last year.

My massive bulk of mediocre blu-ray movies attest to my willingness there . Perhaps when shiny wears off that'll change .

[GGX]

Originally Posted by F-Man

Do you not see his point that they cannot afford it? It's either that, or they make only a DVD. DVD is even more sup-par.

No I dont see his point. What I do see is Bandai taking the lazy approach. Much like Warner does with a lot of their releases. You gonna tell me they cant afford it either?

Originally Posted by Afrobean

It's not "subpar". If it were subpar that would mean it is below the standard.

Damn if you don't consider a single layer Blu-ray release with only DD audio sub-par then I hate to see something come out that does fall into that category for you!

I wouldn't doubt it if this was a low bitrate encode too. AND your tellign me there is something wrong with the English dub!? Thats pretty pathetic on Bandai's part!

[drobswim13]

Originally Posted by GGX

Damn if you don't consider a single layer Blu-ray release with only DD audio sub-par then I hate to see something come out that does fall into that category for you!

I wouldn't doubt it if this was a low bitrate encode too. AND your tellign me there is something wrong with the English dub!? Thats pretty pathetic on Bandai's part!

I completely agree with this...Dolby Digital is very subpar for BDs at this stage in the game. Now, if it had TrueHD audio and it still was not reference quality, then I could completely understand that but I would give Bandai points for trying. However, they are just going half-ass on it by giving us the DD and it almost seems to be un-upgradeable for those who already own the DVD. Sure, there might be better PQ, but without the AQ being astounding I don't see a big reason to upgrade.

And Bandai does have the money to make a lossless audio track, no matter how much you say they "cannot afford it." If they truly could not afford it, they would not have bought into BD yet because the cost to upgrade the PQ is quite hefty.

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by GGX

No I dont see his point. What I do see is Bandai taking the lazy approach. Much like Warner does with a lot of their releases. You gonna tell me they cant afford it either?

Bandai is not freaking Warner Bros., man. Warner just pulled in a truckton of cash on TDK, and Bandai... pulled in a relatively paltry sum on Power Rangers toys.

Did you notice the article mention that this is Bandai's FIRST Blu-ray release?

Damn if you don't consider a single layer Blu-ray release with only DD audio sub-par then I hate to see something come out that does fall into that category for you!

It may be subpar by YOUR standards, but it is not subpar by BLU-RAY's standards. That is to say, your personal standards are beyond Blu-ray's own standards. That's the point that I'm trying to make. The quality on it is not out of the ordinary for Blu-ray, even if you think it's terrible that the quality in the audio department is not night-and-day better than DVD like the picture is.

I wouldn't doubt it if this was a low bitrate encode too.

A single layer release from a company known for making toys? Probably. Their first release? I'd say that can bump it up to definitely.

Bitrate isn't as important as you make it seem though. Beyond a point a higher bitrate won't mean a thing in terms of quality; it'll become indistinguishable, even while it takes up more bits to show the same information. The only thing that matters is compression artifacts; if they can be avoided while keeping bitrates "low", it doesn't hurt anything. What I'm trying to say is that rather than putting your care in the "it's gonna be a low bitrate" area of thought, shift it to "it might have terrible compression artifacts." That's what you should being caring about, the effect rather than the potential cause.

But either way, what do you care? You've already refused to buy it because of the audio. Making the picture terrible too would only serve to motivate more people to join you- ahem- noble cause.

AND your tellign me there is something wrong with the English dub!? Thats pretty pathetic on Bandai's part!

I agree, it is pathetic, which is why I probably will not bother with this having learned that. The best option probably is just to import and print an English cover... eww... I just checked amazon.co.jp to see what it is over there, and it came out to about 50 bucks, not to mention what it'd probably cost me to ship from Japan to the States. Maybe I'll just bide my time and pray this thing gets double dipped by Bandai later when they've had a little more practice in the Blu game.

Originally Posted by drobswim13

And Bandai does have the money to make a lossless audio track, no matter how much you say they "cannot afford it." If they truly could not afford it, they would not have bought into BD yet because the cost to upgrade the PQ is quite hefty.

They do have the capital they could invest in it, but it wouldn't be economically savvy to do it. I have a couple thousand sitting in the bank and I could go ahead and buy a hundreds of holographic Pokemon cards right now.

But it wouldn't be economically smart. I have the cash, but I can't afford it. It'd be a bad investment- too risky, too much cost for the high risk with a minimal likelihood for increased return on my investment.

[GGX]

I'm starting to think you have stock in Bandai lol.

Just admit it. This release should be so much better.

[MOONPHASE]

Bandai must know that Ghost in the Shell is popular in America(maybe not as much as Japan but still gets a descent amount of audience) Anything that has to do with Ghost in the Shell is bound to sell no matter if its Japan, US, or even the UK. So basically Bandai knows they can make some profit off of it but i think they are just going to be like Warner 1st release Dolby Digital then 2nd release DolbyTrueHD or maybe even PCM

[Mobe1969]

Originally Posted by MOONPHASE

Bandai must know that Ghost in the Shell is popular in America(maybe not as much as Japan but still gets a descent amount of audience) Anything that has to do with Ghost in the Shell is bound to sell no matter if its Japan, US, or even the UK. So basically Bandai knows they can make some profit off of it but i think they are just going to be like Warner 1st release Dolby Digital then 2nd release DolbyTrueHD or maybe even PCM

From everything I've read the original GITS was not a hit in Japan, but was elsewhere. Not sure with Innocence.

[DRS]

Bandai USA have been making sub-par DVD products for years, frankly im amazed the Blu-Ray even worked.

I dont see the need to give money to this company, their DVD quality control was a complete joke, not surprised to see them mess up on Blu-Rays now, even if it is just the lack of HD audio

[singhcr]

This is a clear-cut situation of Bandai being cheap.

We have a right to complain when there is already a BD presentation out there with lossless sound, and we get a US release that is lossy and extremely expensive? What sense does that make?

[singhcr]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

It's not "subpar". If it were subpar that would mean it is below the standard. Now, I'll give you that the standard it is using is not the birdie or eagle you're looking for, but it is certainly par for the course; this lossy audio is an established standard for feature releases on Blu-ray whether you like it or not. Again, you're falling into the idea that if something isn't ideal, it's bad. This is not true, and it is not the case here.

Lossless audio is an established Blu-ray standard. Every studio release (w/ the exception of Warner) has a lossless audio track on it in the US. Practically every HK release has multiple lossless tracks, Japanese discs as well.

Therefore, if we get lossless from practically everyone else around the world, why should we not complain when Bandai gets cheap?

[K_man2001]

Blu-ray currently is prmarialy just upconverted movies period. It is not like the studio went out and reshot all of these films in Hi-Def quality. Rarely is a film even remastered from the original film to upconvert the pixel rate (If you want to see a quality reprint check out the TV show filmed in the 1990's and remastered in and around 200, with season 2 finished in 2007, fully remastered from the original film stock "Twin Peaks" TV show David Linch made an almost blu-ray quality print with his dilligent work, as well as turning this stereo TV serial into a DD 5.1 dvd set) (VERY freaking IMPRESSIVE). Personally My player and my Yamaha amp will both upconvert video. So give me uncompressed audio or there is no freaking reason to pay 2x3 times the price of a regular DVD. I know a lot of morons who have bought multiple copies of DVD because it is a special ed, directors cut, or now Blu-ray with really no added benifit. At least with 5.1 Lossless I am getting something for my money. Otherwise keep you old disks and play them on an upconverted player or save you money. You can buy a quality upconverting Pioneer Elite player for under $99.00 and get a better picture and save your money otherwise.

There is very little Bl-Ray vdoe worth the money but with a hot amp and lossless sound you can experience a real quality differance. I run a Yamaha 7.1 sysyem (waiting for some 7.1 lossless (besides Pans Labryinth) to really experience the sound that you will notice. But for now I do hear the sound differance with the 5.1 Lossless MA disks, the pictures has inproved but not to the point to pick Blu-ray as the winner when comparing audio to video on a good lossless disk.

Stargate Blu-ray was a bad joke, grainy crap and just no effort even went into making it a better picture. Glad I only paid $9.99 and actually like the dvd that I had lost, I feel like suing them for calling it blu-ray, but since it will not play on a DVD player they can get away with calling it a blu-ray disk.

But as they say "There is a sucker born everyday and if you look at the Blu-rays being resold today it proves the point. Are you one of those suckers?

[Michael.Schinke]

Originally Posted by K_man2001

Blu-ray currently is prmarialy just upconverted movies period. It is not like the studio went out and reshot all of these films in Hi-Def quality. Rarely is a film even remastered from the original film to upconvert the pixel rate (If you want to see a quality reprint check out the TV show filmed in the 1990's and remastered in and around 200, with season 2 finished in 2007, fully remastered from the original film stock "Twin Peaks" TV show David Linch made an almost blu-ray quality print with his dilligent work, as well as turning this stereo TV serial into a DD 5.1 dvd set) (VERY freaking IMPRESSIVE). Personally My player and my Yamaha amp will both upconvert video. So give me uncompressed audio or there is no freaking reason to pay 2x3 times the price of a regular DVD. I know a lot of morons who have bought multiple copies of DVD because it is a special ed, directors cut, or now Blu-ray with really no added benifit. At least with 5.1 Lossless I am getting something for my money. Otherwise keep you old disks and play them on an upconverted player or save you money. You can buy a quality upconverting Pioneer Elite player for under $99.00 and get a better picture and save your money otherwise.

There is very little Bl-Ray vdoe worth the money but with a hot amp and lossless sound you can experience a real quality differance. I run a Yamaha 7.1 sysyem (waiting for some 7.1 lossless (besides Pans Labryinth) to really experience the sound that you will notice. But for now I do hear the sound differance with the 5.1 Lossless MA disks, the pictures has inproved but not to the point to pick Blu-ray as the winner when comparing audio to video on a good lossless disk.

Stargate Blu-ray was a bad joke, grainy crap and just no effort even went into making it a better picture. Glad I only paid $9.99 and actually like the dvd that I had lost, I feel like suing them for calling it blu-ray, but since it will not play on a DVD player they can get away with calling it a blu-ray disk.

But as they say "There is a sucker born everyday and if you look at the Blu-rays being resold today it proves the point. Are you one of those suckers?

My god... someone else take this one for me. I just don't have the energy...

[Marquoz]

Originally Posted by Michael.Schinke

My god... someone else take this one for me. I just don't have the energy...

I didn't know what to say either. I just looked and looked and just shook my head.