Why should I choose Blu-ray?

[davewolfs]

I am completely new to HDTV so I figure I will play devils advocate

Here is my logic to jump on the HD DVD bandwagon until the format war is over.

1. There is no indication that HD DVD has plans to give up anytime soon, in my opinion the available HD DVD content is decent, there is nothing explicitly on Blu Ray that I MUST have.
2. The video quality is virtually on par, videophiles may say otherwise, but they are pretty damn close, perhaps in the future this will change but lets be realistic both formats are serving high quality content in comparison to standard DVD's.
3. There is no guarantee that current Blu Ray players will be capable of supporting the 1.1 spec. Which means a $500 investment could effectively turn into what I would deem an expensive paper weight.
4. For someone who is just entering the market and enjoys renting movies online, $230 is a minimal investment in comparison to the cost of a Blu Ray player.

These are just my thoughts after researching the topic. My largest concern is that there will be no true winner in either of these formats, so I am choosing to reduce my risk by going with the cheapest available player.

Dave

[The Don]

why would I flame?...it's your decision...

of course this is the blu-ray forum..so nobody is going to tell you that you made the right decision...

as long as your fine with the studio support HD DVD has...then this is your decision...

I looked at the studio support and the fact that I wanted a PS3 anyways...also hearing it was a great blu-ray player...this decision was a no-brainer for me...

if HD DVD suits what you're looking for...why should we care?...

there's info all over this site that shows you why blu-ray is a better buy...you don't need us to try and win you over....do your own homework as I did....

you can get all the information you need without even surfing the forums here.....just surf the website itself and you'll know why we chose Blu-ray over HD DVD....and why Blu-ray is dominating the movie sales...

THAT'S WHERE THESE COMPANIES MAKE MONEY...

[JTK]

This again?

[MasterXeus]

Originally Posted by davewolfs

I am completely new to HDTV so I figure I will play devils advocate

Here is my logic to jump on the HD DVD bandwagon until the format war is over.

1. There is no indication that HD DVD has plans to give up anytime soon, in my opinion the available HD DVD content is decent, there is nothing explicitly on Blu Ray that I MUST have.
2. The video quality is virtually on par, videophiles may say otherwise, but they are pretty damn close, perhaps in the future this will change but lets be realistic both formats are serving high quality content in comparison to standard DVD's.
3. There is no guarantee that current Blu Ray players will be capable of supporting the 1.1 spec. Which means a $500 investment could effectively turn into what I would deem an expensive paper weight.
4. For someone who is just entering the market and enjoys renting movies online, $230 is a minimal investment in comparison to the cost of a Blu Ray player.

Flame me all you will, these are just my thoughts after researching the topic. My largest concern is that there will be no true winner in either of these formats, so I am choosing to reduce my risk by going with the cheapest available player.

Dave

1. Your right HD-DVD content is decent, but they don't have any MUST HAVE for me.
2. HD-DVD PQ isn't bad, but I haven't seen anything close to PQ of POTC 2.
3. 1.1 spcs. Requirement isn't too far away....
4. $230 doesn't give you 1080p, More like $400 for a HD-DVD player to give you 1080p. IF you’re talking about HD-DVD add for the Xbox 360, then cost is more like $500

HD-DVD may not go any where for a while, but I have question.

Blockbuster renting Blu-ray only, Target and BJ are selling Blu-ray players only. With thees place supporting mainly Blu-ray, who's supporting HD-DVD?

If it sounds like I'm flaming you then I'm sorry, but I don't see any logic is your post. Then only then I can understand, is some how HD-DVD has more movies you like, I guess your a big Universal Fan.

[BStecke]

1) Most of the blockbuster movies this year will be Blu-ray exclusive, or at least on Blu-ray. If Paramount follows their trend, Transformers will see a higher quality video transfer on Blu than on HD DVD. Also, Spielberg has authorized Close Encounters on Blu. With Indy 4 coming out, this could be yet another exclusive.

2) Films that are only on Blu-ray usually use higher bitrate encoding to give a better picture, compared to HD DVD's typically soft, usually VC-1 transfers. Superman Returns is a good example of this. In an IMAX theatre, Superman returns was NOT a soft movie, yet with the VC-1 HD DVD and unforunately BD release, it's a very soft looking movie. Films that are offered on both formats are good and bad. For instance, Paramount has been making good use of Blu rays extra capacity by using higher bitrate encoding for the Blu version. Warner, on the other hand, typically uses ports of HD DVD's, so a lot of these films have a softer look.

This is one of the main arguments against the neutral studios. While yes, they are releasing on Blu ray, BD supporters are forced to submit to the "common demoninator" and get lower quality than we could have. This to me is the biggest reason HD DVD needs to give it up, because they're driving studios to release lower quality products than they could. I can deal (for awhile) with not having movies from some studios, but I hate suffering for the competing technology's lack of ability.

3) Just get a PS3 . . . it's one of the best BD players on the market and should be able to be updated with everything you need.

4) At this point, look at the numbers. Blu ray movies outsell HD DVDs by at least a 2 to 1 margin. Period. Sony will not back down with BD, since the PS3 utlizes the format for the games. HD DVD is losing legs to stand on almost every day, in the case of this week. They have one major studio supporting them exclusively, and at that, many of their releases are sub par by many BD supporter and HT enthusiast's standards.

That $230 is becoming a less and less promising investment everyday. That's not fanboy talk, that's the reality that BD is gaining more and more exclusive support, literally almost every day. So if you spend $230 and you're stuck with obsolete technology in a year, how attractive is that $230 purchase? I'm a strong believer in "you get what you pay for." There's a reason Toshiba had to drop their player prices to desperation level so fast. Oh . . . and there's only ONE manufacturer making HD DVD players. Even less support from another front. Companies make things they know will make money . . . the goal of business.


Bottom line, HD DVD is already nearing the point of becoming obsolete. They can't even put a decent video encode with lossless audio without maxing out disc capacity. Blu-ray at this point still has room for growth, and they have the support of MANY more studios than HD DVD.

300 will be a good indicator of where HD DVD stands in relation to Blu ray. HD DVD is counting on 300 to be a big release for them, which it will be, but it'll be even bigger on Blu. Also important is that this will debunk the assumption by the HD DVD camp that interactive features are what the customer wants, when in reality, most of us just want to watch the damn movie in the best video and audio quality possible. Giving HD DVD the benefit of the doubt, let's say they actually do sell more players than Blu ray (maybe if you don't count PS3) Who cares if nobody buys the movies?

To me, Blu ray makes more sense from a logical standpoint. There's only one studio I can't get movies for on Blu ray, and the releases I can get from neutral and exclusive studios are at least as good or often BETTER than their HD DVD counterparts. What's to lose there?

[davewolfs]

Originally Posted by MasterXeus

1. Your right HD-DVD content is decent, but they don't have any MUST HAVE for me.
2. HD-DVD PQ isn't bad, but I haven't seen anything close to PQ of POTC 2.
3. 1.1 spcs. acquirement isn't too far away....
4. $230 doesn't give you 1080p, More like $400 for a HD-DVD player to give you 1080p. IF you’re talking about HD-DVD add for the Xbox 360, then cost is more like $500

HD-DVD may not go any where for a while, but I have question.

Blockbuster renting Blu-ray only, Target and BJ are selling Blu-ray players only. With thees place supporting mainly Blu-ray, who's supporting HD-DVD?

If it sounds like I'm flaming you then I'm sorry, but I don't see any logic is your post. Then only then I can understand, is some how HD-DVD has more movies you like, I guess your a big Universal Fan.

Blockbuster is renting HD DVD online. This is what I use, I find it a royal PITA to stand around in line at BB.

You are right about the 1080P, I believe the 1080P version is $320.

I wasn't aware that Target and BJ were both exclusive to the format. It would be interesting to known why they would even do this, I see no benefit.

[davewolfs]

Originally Posted by BStecke

1) Most of the blockbuster movies this year will be Blu-ray exclusive, or at least on Blu-ray. If Paramount follows their trend, Transformers will see a higher quality video transfer on Blu than on HD DVD. Also, Spielberg has authorized Close Encounters on Blu. With Indy 4 coming out, this could be yet another exclusive.

2) Films that are only on Blu-ray usually use higher bitrate encoding to give a better picture, compared to HD DVD's typically soft VC-1 transfers. Superman Returns is a good example of this. In an IMAX theatre, Superman returns was NOT a soft movie, yet with the VC-1 HD DVD and unforunately BD release, it's a very soft looking movie. Films that are offered on both formats are good and bad. For instance, Paramount has been making good use of Blu rays extra capacity by using higher bitrate encoding for the Blu version. Warner, on the other hand, typically uses ports of HD DVD's, so a lot of these films have a softer look.

This is one of the main arguments against the neutral studios. While yes, they are releasing on Blu ray, BD supporters are forced to submit to the "common demoninator" and get lower quality than we could have. This to me is the biggest reason HD DVD needs to give it up, because they're driving studios to release lower quality products than they could.

3) Just get a PS3 . . . it's one of the best BD players on the market and should be able to be updated with everything you need.

4) At this point, look at the numbers. Blu ray movies outsell HD DVDs by at least a 2 to 1 margin. Period. Sony will not back down with BD, since the PS3 utlizes the format for the games. HD DVD is losing legs to stand on almost every day, in the case of this week. They have one major studio supporting them exclusively, and at that, many of their releases are sub par by many BD supporter and HT enthusiast's standards.

That $230 is becoming a less and less promising investment everyday. That's not fanboy talk, that's the reality that BD is gaining more and more exclusive support, literally almost every day. So if you spend $230 and you're stuck with obsolete technology in a year, how attractive is that $230 purchase? I'm a strong believer in "you get what you pay for." There's a reason Toshiba had to drop their player prices to desperation level so fast. Oh . . . and there's only ONE manufacturer making HD DVD players. Even less support from another front. Companies make things they know will make money . . . the goal of business.


Bottom line, HD DVD is already nearing the point of becoming obsolete. They can't even put a decent video encode with lossless audio without maxing out disc capacity. Blu-ray at this point still has room for growth, and they have the support of MANY more studios than HD DVD.

300 will be a good indicator of where HD DVD stands in relation to Blu ray. HD DVD is counting on 300 to be a big release for them, which it will be, but it'll be even bigger on Blu. Also important is that this will debunk the assumption by the HD DVD camp that interactive features are what the customer wants, when in reality, most of us just want to watch the damn movie in the best video and audio quality possible. Giving HD DVD the benefit of the doubt, let's say they actually do sell more players than Blu ray (maybe if you don't count PS3) Who cares if nobody buys the movies?

To me, Blu ray makes more sense from a logical standpoint. There's only one studio I can't get movies for on Blu ray, and the releases I can get from neutral and exclusive studios are at least as good or often BETTER than their HD DVD counterparts. What's to lose there?

Well said! If I were to go with a PS3, can it be enclosed in a cabinet? I am guessing no. Are there any players out there that have been deemed more future proof then others?

Also, are there any sites out there that actually show that the Video of HD DVD is lacking compare to Blu Ray?

[MasterXeus]

Originally Posted by davewolfs

Blockbuster is renting HD DVD online. This is what I use, I find it a royal PITA to stand around in line at BB.

You are right about the 1080P, I believe the 1080P version is $320.

I wasn't aware that Target and BJ were both exclusive to the format. It would be interesting to known why they would even do this, I see no benefit.

True Blockbuster online is renting HD-DVD, but Blockbuster stores that don't have HD-DVD in them won't be getting them. All Blockbuster stores will have Blu-ray. Blockbuster Online is a small profit compare there stores.

Plus $230 to $320 isn't a bad investment, but that's just start up cost. How much money will all the HD-DVD movies cost? In then end, if Blu-ray wins and HD-DVD are no longer made. You're looking at a larger investment than $230 to $320.

It's been proven that every month from January 2007 until now. Blu-ray movies have been selling 2 to 1 over HD-DVD. I believe this will only increase in time. Maybe this is why Target and BJ went Blu.

[j_rocca42]

Originally Posted by davewolfs

You are right about the 1080P, I believe the 1080P version is $320.

No, the 720p/1080i version is around $230ish depending on where you're buying it, and up to $299. The 1080p version is $399.

[BStecke]

One of the (I guess) negatives of BD players is they don't have a mandatory ethernet port, which the PS3 has already. So far the PS3 has been ahead of the curve as far as updates. Some movies people have had difficulty playing on standalone players, but I've never had a single hiccup with my PS3. Sony has been VERY aggressive in their support and improvement of the PS3, and I would be very surprised if all of a sudden they said, "Well, the PS3 has come as far as it will, go buy a new player." I think they realize what they have and the importance of the PS3 in the format war, and I think it would be a nail in their coffin to all of a sudden lessen or drop improvement of the PS3. I'm usually a fan of standalone players, and thought I would never give up my Denon DVD-1600 until I got a standalone Blu player, but with the release of firmware 1.8, my PS3 has truly become the centerpiece of my home entertainment center, supplying all of my DVD and Blu ray entertainment.

The PS3 does need a decent amount of ventilation. I probably wouldn't enclose it, but I'm paranoid about it. Someone else may be able to tell you how much airspace it needs to breath. Just don't put duct tape over the ventilation holes to keep dust out (yes, it happened . . . there's a thread about it on this very forum).


As far as comparing an HD DVD to a Blu-ray, you'd really have to see them in person. I would suggest picking two movies that are fairly new. I would do Superman Returns on HD DVD. The reason for this is that it's a new movie, yet it is very apparent that it is STARVING for a higher bitrate transfer. The transfer just looks too smooth. I notice this the most on the actor's faces, where there is a pretty apparent lack of detail.

For Blu ray, I'd pick something like Crank or the Pirates movies. These both use higher bit rate transfers than HD uses, and it REALLY shows. I haven't had the opportunity to compare an HD and Blu release of the same film, unfortunately. highdefdigest.com has a LOT of reviews of both HD DVD and Blu, and when applicable, will usually have a mention of how the HD DVD release stacks up against the BD.

While you're not comparing the same movie, Superman Returns is a new movie that was shot with HD cameras, so the quality should definitely be there, but it's not. Crank and Pirates are examples of just how great Blu ray can be. To be fair, there are some releases that are the same for HD DVD and Blu (Black Snake Moan is one off the top of my head) and some movies (Training Day) received better reviews on HD DVD and Blu, despite having the same transfer. But the point is, Blu ray has the potential to be consistently better, but they are hindered to some degree by studios having to sacrifice quality to release on both formats.

[MatrixS2000]

Originally Posted by davewolfs

I am completely new to HDTV so I figure I will play devils advocate

Here is my logic to jump on the HD DVD bandwagon until the format war is over.

1. There is no indication that HD DVD has plans to give up anytime soon, in my opinion the available HD DVD content is decent, there is nothing explicitly on Blu Ray that I MUST have.
2. The video quality is virtually on par, videophiles may say otherwise, but they are pretty damn close, perhaps in the future this will change but lets be realistic both formats are serving high quality content in comparison to standard DVD's.
3. There is no guarantee that current Blu Ray players will be capable of supporting the 1.1 spec. Which means a $500 investment could effectively turn into what I would deem an expensive paper weight.
4. For someone who is just entering the market and enjoys renting movies online, $230 is a minimal investment in comparison to the cost of a Blu Ray player.

These are just my thoughts after researching the topic. My largest concern is that there will be no true winner in either of these formats, so I am choosing to reduce my risk by going with the cheapest available player.

Dave

I think you need to do more research on:

1 - the technology limitations as HD DVD is hamstrung by capacity and more importantly bandwidth. Will becoming increasingly important with movie length and extra content (if extras are important to you - to me it's junk).

2 - Studio support - overwhelmingly in Blu-Rays favour. What good is a cheap player if you can't watch something on them? Since Blu-Ray has more studio support, you have more movie choice.

3 - If you truly are only going with the cheapest player, you should realize that that is not where the cost truly lies...it lies with the software (and the all the other equipment needed for the HD experience)...and that is where Blu-Ray has a huge advantage. So you may have a cheaper player, but you will "lose" more money when HD DVD dies.

4 - Marketshare - Blu Ray is dominating HD sales.

5 - If you think there is going to be no winner - why risk at all? Stay on the sidelines...

[davewolfs]

Originally Posted by j_rocca42

No, the 720p/1080i version is around $230ish depending on where you're buying it, and up to $299. The 1080p version is $399.

No it's $329!

http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-HD-A20...5642095&sr=8-1

[MatrixS2000]

Originally Posted by davewolfs

Well said! If I were to go with a PS3, can it be enclosed in a cabinet? I am guessing no. Are there any players out there that have been deemed more future proof then others?

Also, are there any sites out there that actually show that the Video of HD DVD is lacking compare to Blu Ray?

Do you keep your receiver or amplifier in an enclosed cabinet?

Problem with trying to compare video between HD DVD and Blu Ray is that all the common releases are hamstrung on Blu Ray. They are simply HD DVD versions ported over to Blu Ray...the studio has to satisfy the lowest common denominator and that is HD DVD....

[davewolfs]

Originally Posted by MatrixS2000

Do you keep your receiver or amplifier in an enclosed cabinet?

Problem with trying to compare video between HD DVD and Blu Ray is that all the common releases are hamstrung on Blu Ray. They are simply HD DVD versions ported over to Blu Ray...the studio has to satisfy the lowest common denominator and that is HD DVD....

Is that fact or an assumption? Obviously Blu Ray has a larger capacity but does this does imply that studios have intentions of utilizing all available storage for each release?

[MasterXeus]

Originally Posted by davewolfs

I am completely new to HDTV so I figure I will play devils advocate

Here is my logic to jump on the HD DVD bandwagon until the format war is over.

1. There is no indication that HD DVD has plans to give up anytime soon, in my opinion the available HD DVD content is decent, there is nothing explicitly on Blu Ray that I MUST have.
Dave

So what movies do you like?

[movies3]

i would go bluray. More studio support won me over! and btw we have a section on here with the sale numbers etc in the General Discussion called Nielsen/VideoScan Weekly Sales Numbers.

You wont go wrong with bluray trust us

[RichiPuppy]

Originally Posted by davewolfs

I wasn't aware that Target and BJ were both exclusive to the format. It would be interesting to known why they would even do this, I see no benefit.

They take a loss in having a product take up shelf space and not sell.

[MasterXeus]

Originally Posted by movies3

i would go bluray. More studio support won me over! and btw we have a section on here with the sale numbers etc in the General Discussion called Nielsen/VideoScan Weekly Sales Numbers.

You wont go wrong with bluray trust us

This is the main reason I went Blu-ray as well, More Studio support = more movies.

[movies3]

Originally Posted by MasterXeus

This is the main reason I went Blu-ray as well, More Studio support = more movies.

i agree, with only universal supporting HD DVD....it really wasnt a tough choice for me.

[MatrixS2000]

Originally Posted by davewolfs

Is that fact or an assumption? Obviously Blu Ray has a larger capacity but does this does imply that studios have intentions of utilizing all available storage for each release?

Capacity is not the only problem...the more critical one is bandwidth. Blu Ray can have up to 48Mb/s for video and another 8Mb/s for audio. This allows it to handle the more difficult encodes.

As far as studios having intentions fo utilizing all available storage space - well that depends on the studio. The Blu Ray exclusives ones do - they use high bit rates encode. The neutrals don't because they do want to do 2 separate encodes...so they use the lowest common denominator - the HD DVD version.