The Deer Hunter (1978) 4K UHD

[Geoff D]

What? No. I did switch back and forth between the two mixes on occasion and the "it sounds different" line is about as technical as it's gonna get from cloth ears Geoffy! The other bit of technical sloblock is me snidely chirping at some past discussions I've had on here with some people.

[jerclay]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

What? No. I did switch back and forth between the two mixes on occasion and the "it sounds different" line is about as technical as it's gonna get from cloth ears Geoffy! The other bit of technical sloblock is me snidely chirping at some past discussions I've had on here with some people.

So next time you feel like watching the movie, which shall it be - the old blu, the new one or the UHD?

[jaaguir]

Originally Posted by Fat Phil

And just a little addition to Geoff's review if I may, since I know he's not so much about the sound side of things.

The 5.1 track on the old Studio Canal disc was pitched a semi-tone too high thus making it a worthless piece of garbage. Fortunately, it's pitched correctly on this new release. So thumbs up for that.

Like PAL?

Good to know the new disc is correct though (although I'm not buying this movie myself).

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by jerclay

So next time you feel like watching the movie, which shall it be - the old blu, the new one or the UHD?

UHD fo sho

[Pieter V]

DISC INFO:

Disc Size: 87,253,953,558 bytes
Protection: AACS2
BD-Java: No
Extras: Ultra HD
BDInfo: 0.5.8.7

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name: 00000.MPLS
Length: 3:03:46.750 (h:m:s.ms)
Size: 86,331,568,128 bytes
Total Bitrate: 62.63 Mbps

(*) Indicates included stream hidden by this playlist.

VIDEO:

Codec Bitrate Description
----- ------- -----------
MPEG-H HEVC Video 45559 kbps 2160p / 24 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 Profile 5.1 High / 4:2:0 / 10 bits / HDR / BT.2020 /
* MPEG-H HEVC Video 8112 kbps 1080p / 24 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 Profile 5.1 High / 4:2:0 / 10 bits / Dolby Vision / BT.2020 /

AUDIO:

Codec Language Bitrate Description
----- -------- ------- -----------
DTS-HD Master Audio English 2008 kbps 2.0 / 48 kHz / 2008 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 2.0 / 48 kHz / 1509 kbps / 24-bit)
DTS-HD Master Audio English 2949 kbps 5.1 / 48 kHz / 2949 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz / 1509 kbps / 24-bit)
DTS Audio French 768 kbps 2.0 / 48 kHz / 768 kbps / 24-bit

SUBTITLES:

Codec Language Bitrate Description
----- -------- ------- -----------
Presentation Graphics English 20.592 kbps
Presentation Graphics French 8.737 kbps

[Geoff D]

Wait, what? Dolby Vision? How did I miss that?

And yes, no Java on the disc. When I had to stop the movie and pick it up again later in the evening my player resumed it from where I left off (providing I didn't remove the disc from the player).

[Fat Phil]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Wait, what? Dolby Vision? How did I miss that?

And yes, no Java on the disc. When I had to stop the movie and pick it up again later in the evening my player resumed it from where I left off (providing I didn't remove the disc from the player).

[Geoff D]

Dude! I had things to do, I put the movie on pause but half an hour later I was still having to fart about elsewhere so I had to press the dreaded stop button. Have an excuse to prove my manliness by watching it all in one sitting again though, it's only got Dolby Vision which wasn't enabled on my first viewing.

[Fat Phil]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Dude! I had things to do, I put the movie on pause but half an hour later I was still having to fart about elsewhere so I had to press the dreaded stop button. Have an excuse to prove my manliness by watching it all in one sitting again though, it's only got Dolby Vision which wasn't enabled on my first viewing.

Worry ye not Sir Geoff. I'm just busting balls. My favourite pastime.

[Mobe1969]

Geez I so wish PlayStation would release a UHD capable console. I love my PS3s for Blu Ray playback AND resume. I can put a disc in 5 years later and it will ask if I want to resume.

[Geoff D]

The Deer Hunter Revisited. So, yeah. This has Dolby Vision....and it transforms it from a mediocre encode to a very good one, still a touch fragile in a couple of spots but a world away from the HDR10 base layer which treads a very fine line. The odd flickering that I mentioned in the darker scenes in HDR10 is greatly improved in DV too, a couple of moments near the end when Mike is trying to track down Nicky in the Saigon back streets still flutter a wee bit but apart from that the problem is pretty much fixed.

I'm not gonna hail DV's prowess as a format for these improvements however, because if the HDR10 layers were being encoded properly then these problems would not exist. It's SUCH a shame that certain Dolby Vision encoders for disc seem to be doing this to the HDR10 presentation, severely hampering the chroma compression and also causing other issues, but it is what it is and this dual layer base + enhancement authoring system still needs a fair bit of fine tuning. Who knows, perhaps this is the reason why Disney are currently shying away from DV on disc?

One aspect where I will praise the DV is the dynamic tone mapping as it helps to bring the speculars highlights alive, NOT in the sense of adding gaudy 'pop' (though I did mention that dreaded word in my HDR10 review, for which I can only apologise) but by making them feel more intense and realistic without ever being overpowering. As much as I praised the HDR10 for looking better balanced between dark and light than the new SDR transfer, the DV does an ever better job of reconciling the high gamma with the bright highlights.

The DV is a more coherent presentation, to put it simply. Grain looks finer now that the compression artefacts have been reined in, and the HDR is integrated in an even more organic way. It's a beautiful visual representation of an amazing film (having screened it twice now in two days I was never clock watching) and I even turned on the AVR this time and watched it with the 70mm sound mix. I still can't quite fully articulate what the differences are between that and the regular 2.0 mix but the 70mm seems to sound sharper. I mean, it doesn't turn it into a modern sounding movie (all that overlapping hard-to-hear dialogue is very much part of the intent, and there's very little in the way of surround usage or overt LFE) but it's more precise, for want of a better word.

People keep asking which presentation I prefer but this Dolby Vision 4K UHD has them all beat. Note to self: check HDR settings on the player next time.

[jerclay]

Great to hear the DV improves on the pq, but there’s no mention of DV anywhere on the cover???

[Agent Kay]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The Deer Hunter Revisited. So, yeah. This has Dolby Vision....and it transforms it from a mediocre encode to a very good one, still a touch fragile in a couple of spots but a world away from the HDR10 base layer which treads a very fine line. The odd flickering that I mentioned in the darker scenes in HDR10 is greatly improved in DV too, a couple of moments near the end when Mike is trying to track down Nicky in the Saigon back streets still flutter a wee bit but apart from that the problem is pretty much fixed.

I'm not gonna hail DV's prowess as a format for these improvements however, because if the HDR10 layers were being encoded properly then these problems would not exist. It's SUCH a shame that certain Dolby Vision encoders for disc seem to be doing this to the HDR10 presentation, severely hampering the chroma compression and also causing other issues, but it is what it is and this dual layer base + enhancement authoring system still needs a fair bit of fine tuning. Who knows, perhaps this is the reason why Disney are currently shying away from DV on disc?

One aspect where I will praise the DV is the dynamic tone mapping as it helps to bring the speculars highlights alive, NOT in the sense of adding gaudy 'pop' (though I did mention that dreaded word in my HDR10 review, for which I can only apologise) but by making them feel more intense and realistic without ever being overpowering. As much as I praised the HDR10 for looking better balanced between dark and light than the new SDR transfer, the DV does an ever better job of reconciling the high gamma with the bright highlights.

The DV is a more coherent presentation, to put it simply. Grain looks finer now that the compression artefacts have been reined in, and the HDR is integrated in an even more organic way. It's a beautiful visual representation of an amazing film (having screened it twice now in two days I was never clock watching) and I even turned on the AVR this time and watched it with the 70mm sound mix. I still can't quite fully articulate what the differences are between that and the regular 2.0 mix but the 70mm seems to sound sharper. I mean, it doesn't turn it into a modern sounding movie (all that overlapping hard-to-hear dialogue is very much part of the intent, and there's very little in the way of surround usage or overt LFE) but it's more precise, for want of a better word.

People keep asking which presentation I prefer but this Dolby Vision 4K UHD has them all beat. Note to self: check HDR settings on the player next time.

Wait, so how did you watch it without DV the first time?
And you don't mention the compression now and that was the main issue

[Fat Phil]

Originally Posted by jerclay

Great to hear the DV improves on the pq, but there’s no mention of DV anywhere on the cover???

No mention of HDR10 either or even 'HDR' in a general sense so just seems to be the way Studio Canal are rolling.

The sly inclusion of DV bodes well for stuff like They Live and Cliffhanger though.

[jerclay]

Originally Posted by Fat Phil

No mention of HDR10 either or even 'HDR' in a general sense so just seems to be the way Studio Canal are rolling.

The sly inclusion of DV bodes well for stuff like They Live and Cliffhanger though.

Ha, you’re right, no HDR mentioned either! Might be some logo copyright issues or whatever or they just don’t give a damn.

[Agent Kay]

Originally Posted by jerclay

Ha, you’re right, no HDR mentioned either! Might be some logo copyright issues or whatever or they just don’t give a damn.

It was pushed as a BD first, it was only by accident we realised it was a 4k disc also

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Agent Kay

Wait, so how did you watch it without DV the first time?
And you don't mention the compression now and that was the main issue

I had my OPPO set to Forced HDR which pushes the HDR10 layer of any DV disc. I didn't bother unsetting it because who knew beforehand that this disc had frickin' Dolby Vision?!?

I dunno if you've caught my posts regarding Last Jedi or Saving Private Ryan but I see some incredibad compression artefacts on their HDR10 layers, particularly SPR which I literally couldn't continue watching as it was (I turned down the colour until it was black and white), but when watching in Dobly the compression artefacts are greatly improved. Not removed outright but genuinely betterer.

My Armchair Expert™ intuition tells me it's something to do with the dual layer Dolby base + enhancement encoding process, it doesn't always hobble the HDR10 layer but the grainier the content the more chance there is of this phenom occuring. Even though an encode may be on a 100GB, even though it may have a decent enough bitrate on the face of it, when the image is as temporally unstable from frame to frame as these grain-a-thons are then the DV encoding process seems to murder the chroma channels of the HDR10 layer, devoting more bitrate to the luminance and letting the colour fend for itself.

Maybe it's that the quantization parameter for the chroma needs to be set to a lower number than what they're currently feeding it (lower number = closer to source)? Perhaps the same number that's fine (or good enough, at least) on a plain HDR10 joint needs to be set lower on a dual layer HDR10 + DV encode.

[Agent Kay]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I had my OPPO set to Forced HDR which pushes the HDR10 layer of any DV disc. I didn't bother unsetting it because who knew beforehand that this disc had frickin' Dolby Vision?!?

I dunno if you've caught my posts regarding Last Jedi or Saving Private Ryan but I see some incredibad compression artefacts on their HDR10 layers, particularly SPR which I literally couldn't continue watching as it was (I turned down the colour until it was black and white), but when watching in Dobly the compression artefacts are greatly improved. Not removed outright but genuinely betterer.

My Armchair Expert™ intuition tells me it's something to do with the dual layer Dolby base + enhancement encoding process, it doesn't always hobble the HDR10 layer but the grainier the content the more chance there is of this phenom occuring. Even though an encode may be on a 100GB, even though it may have a decent enough bitrate on the face of it, when the image is as temporally unstable from frame to frame as these grain-a-thons are then the DV encoding process seems to murder the chroma channels of the HDR10 layer, devoting more bitrate to the luminance and letting the colour fend for itself.

Maybe it's that the quantization parameter for the chroma needs to be set to a lower number than what they're currently feeding it (lower number = closer to source)? Perhaps the same number that's fine (or good enough, at least) on a plain HDR10 joint needs to be set lower on a dual layer HDR10 + DV encode.

So the space dolbely steals makes everyone's life worse?

[Geoff D]

If you want to look at it like that: yes.

[Agent Kay]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

If you want to look at it like that: yes.