Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom 4K UHD (2018)

[Cherokee Jack]

Originally Posted by bradnoyes

Yeah, I don't think there's anything wrong with his lack of nuance. I just thought that was a weird word to use to describe his character. His lack of nuance is his most believable trait. Typically I don't think that treacherously superficial folks like Nedry have much depth or subtlety to them, and even if he was a somewhat unfortunate stereotype, his character rang true. The guy is utterly self-absorbed and vainglorious to the end.

Nobody in Fallen Kingdom felt like a real person.

This is a fair point. It also applies to TLW however. The best character in that one, Postlethwaite's Tembo, is straight out of a comic book. His introduction in the longer TV version is basically slapstick. And the film's villain might as well be wearing a monocle and top hat when he delivers this chestnut (which I love btw):

Careful, this suit costs more than your education - YouTube

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by Lord Method Man

Nedry's character had nuance. He wasn't a maniacal cartoon villain. He was a guy hard up for money so he went along with a plan to commit corporate espionage. He didn't even have malicious intent. He was reckless and stupid, but likely didn't intend to ever harm anyone.

Fallen Kingdom's antagonists are nothing but caricatures. From their first introduction it becomes hard to take the film seriously because of how poorly written they are. Then Toby Jones shows up with a character so over-the-top it truly feels like the film has become satire.

That's your nostalgia talking.

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

But that's the entire point, Nedry is shown to be an avaricious SOB from the start and the fun comes from him trying to wheedle what he needs out of the park, whereas Rafe Spall in FK is set up as a non-douchebag when he might as well have had "I'm a Fifield" tattooed on his face. The filmmakers seem to think they're being clever by stringing this revelation out but you just know he's gonna turn out to be another corporate asshat who's only in it for the dollar dollar bills y'all. That bit when he sees the money piling up on the computer screen is so incredi-cheesy it's basically this in live-action form:

What ELSE would their motivation be besides MONEY?

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by Lord Method Man

Nedry's character had nuance. He wasn't a maniacal cartoon villain. He was a guy hard up for money so he went along with a plan to commit corporate espionage. He didn't even have malicious intent. He was reckless and stupid, but likely didn't intend to ever harm anyone.

That's actually one of my very few real complaints with the original. Nedry feels pretty harmless as an antagonist, and the dinosaurs are amoral animals, so it kind of feels like a "proper" villain is missing in a way. I think that's a byproduct of turning Hammond into a more sympathetic character for the film adaptation, when he essentially was the main villain of the novel.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The hell of it is I buy a LOT of trashy Hollywood action nonsense. But, as was said by Ernest upthread, this kind of mindless "off the shelf" storytelling is really starting to wear itself out in my eyes.

For me, it's not even that it's mindless nonsense that's the main issue. There's always been movies and other entertainment like that, and there's a place for that stuff, but it can at least be well-made silly nonsense. Fallen Kingdom is poorly made nonsense, and that's fatal.

Originally Posted by Cherokee Jack

Perhaps my opinion is colored by having read the book but I've always considered the original film's story rather boring and dumbed down. Spielberg, ILM and Williams do wonders to make the film as entertaining as it is but it's still a significant step down from Spielberg's earlier popcorn flicks IMO.

And you don't like FK's opening scene? Several people I've seen take issue with the film single the opening out as the only part they like.

As someone who's also read and really like the book, yeah, I guess it kind of is dumbed down (and in an alternate reality I think a more faithful adaptation would be fascinating to see). But it also streamlined and simplified the story in a way that's rather clever unto itself, and it was all pulled off with skill by a group of people who knew what they were doing.

Like Cameron (who wanted to do something closer to the novelt) admitted, it was a stroke of genius of Spielberg's to adapt it the way he did as it opened it up to a broader audience. Most importantly kids, who played an instrumental role in making it the mega success it became.

Originally Posted by Hardback247

What ELSE would their motivation be besides MONEY?

It's not that there aren't people who are driven by greed to use and abuse other living beings - human and non-human alike - in real life. And it can absolutely be valid to shine a light on this and other darker sides of human nature in any work of fiction. But the issue with Fallen Kingdom is that it does it in such a cartoonish way. Like Geoff said, the only thing missing is the villains' eyes literally bulging out of their heads and taking the shape of dollar signs.

It's handled with all the tact, nuance and intellect of how I imagine a five-year-old would tackle it. Or adults making something tailored for five-year-olds, which may be our answer. But then Trevorrow shouldn't have talked it up as some great emotional, thought-provoking commentary. Just admit the target audience is very young children first and foremost.

[Lord Method Man]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

That's your nostalgia talking.

No, its critical analysis talking.

FK was idiotic.

[Lord Method Man]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

That's actually one of my very few real complaints with the original. Nedry feels pretty harmless as an antagonist, and the dinosaurs are amoral animals, so it kind of feels like a "proper" villain is missing in a way.

That's part of why it was good. It didn't need to have a cut-and-dry villain.

Though in the book Hammond was much more antagonistic.

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by Lord Method Man

No, its critical analysis talking.

FK was idiotic.

It's deeper than you think:

Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom - SPOILER Review - YouTube

[Hardback247]

It feels like more and more people have forgotten how to have fun watching movies.

[Lord Method Man]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

It feels like more and more people have forgotten how to have fun watching movies.

No. I just enjoy the good ones.

[gnj1958]

Originally Posted by Lord Method Man

No. I just enjoy the good ones.

Good ones IN YOUR OPINION

[Cherokee Jack]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

As someone who's also read and really like the book, yeah, I guess it kind of is dumbed down (and in an alternate reality I think a more faithful adaptation would be fascinating to see). But it also streamlined and simplified the story in a way that's rather clever unto itself, and it was all pulled off with skill by a group of people who knew what they were doing.

Like Cameron (who wanted to do something closer to the novelt) admitted, it was a stroke of genius of Spielberg's to adapt it the way he did as it opened it up to a broader audience. Most importantly kids, who played an instrumental role in making it the mega success it became.

Hard to fault Spielberg for threading the needle of appealing to both kids and adults but man, I would love to see an early nineties Cameron take on Jurassic Park.

[Hardback247]

You have to at least admit it was very poetic to have the Brachiosaurus be both the first and last dinosaur we will ever see on Isla Nublar.

[StingingVelvet]

This thread is reminding me that the theatrical window still exists.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Lord Method Man

That's part of why it was good. It didn't need to have a cut-and-dry villain.

Though in the book Hammond was much more antagonistic.

Bingo, that's something that I love about JP, that there ISN'T some stock villain doing their thing and driving the story along, instead it's this lardy buffoon who wants to make a buck or two. And even then, Wayne Knight manages to imbue the character with a certain greasy charm that raises him above a cardboard cut-out and the same goes for everyone else in the film, either thru the script or the performances. The nearest thing to an antagonist that actually faces up to the characters are the dinos themselves and that's why JP still feels so fresh to me.

BTW no-one said that Arliss Howard in Lost World wasn't the textbook definition of a vapid villain but, as I explained before, the movie doesn't compound this by then making Pete Postlethwaite a caricature of the great white hunter (even though it tried!) as he's absolutely fantastic in the film and raises the character well above stock villainy. Compare him to Buffalo Bill in FK, the difference is astronomical. Again: the issue is not about these characters having the same motivations on paper, it's about how those motivations are conveyed on-screen and FK sketches all of its characters so thinly I'm surprised they don't disappear when they turn sideways.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

It's deeper than you think:

I didn't find that analysis deep at all, and slagging on the original Jurassic Park (even in jest) to excuse Fallen Kingdom's chicanery also not a good play. Jurassic Park is 25 years old. If Fallen Kingdom has similar flaws with broad characters, well...shouldn't the creative team be aware of that and try to up the game by now?

Fallen Kingdom isn't a crime against humanity, it has some legit scares, it's a handsome production. It's the screenplay, the reliance on cliched tropes as a shortcut...and some day I'm going to try and puzzle out why Michael Giacchino is so brilliant with his scores for Pixar films, but is so bland and derivative with his scores for live action films.

[Geoff D]

Just what I was thinking about the music too! I've got more love for Giacchino than you as j'adore what he did on the nuTrek films but this, this was pure sonic wallpaper. (As was his score for JW)

[bferr1972]

My two cents, for what it's worth: I'm not terribly invested emotionally in this series-that-doesn't-need-to-be-a-series. My expectations are usually low and fit these parameters:

Originally Posted by Ian Malcolm

Oh, yeah. "Oooh, ahhh." That’s how it always starts. Then later there’s running and screaming.

That's all I need. And on that score, JW:FK delivers. I enjoyed it for what it is-- a sequel to a reboot that borrows heavily from another sequel. We're dealing with cloned movie-making here, so a generational loss in quality kind of goes with the territory. And yet, I still think it's miles better than JPIII, which to me was just plain lazy and uninspired.

[filmbuffTX]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Just what I was thinking about the music too! I've got more love for Giacchino than you as j'adore what he did on the nuTrek films but this, this was pure sonic wallpaper. (As was his score for JW)

I do wish they had incorporated more of John Williams’ classic score into this film. There were a couple of scenes where they slightly teased it. Sadly the best music is in the end credits.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by filmbuffTX

I do wish they had incorporated more of John Williams’ classic score into this film. There were a couple of scenes where they slightly teased it. Sadly the best music is in the end credits.

I've noticed that about a lot of these franchise extenders, the main music is plop but when they reprise the original themes in the end credits you go "why didn't they just do that in the movie?!?".

Yes, I've moaned about these movies being soulless rip-offs but if you're gonna do it, do it properly!! Music is one of the things that can make a trashy film somewhat bearable for me and FK fell short in that area as well.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Just what I was thinking about the music too! I've got more love for Giacchino than you as j'adore what he did on the nuTrek films but this, this was pure sonic wallpaper. (As was his score for JW)

I didn't know Giacchino did the score until the end credits, and I was surprised...because halfway through the film, I was frustrated by the music. Music can save a movie (see Jaws and Bambi), in this instance, the score's bombast simply emphasized - loudly - every beat that bugged me about the film.