Questions about burn-in (this one is a bit different) - Blu-ray Forum

jeff92k7 · 02-09-2009, 01:41 PM

Okay, I know there have been hundreds of posts about burn-in (image retention) and I have read through as much as I could stand. It's very clear that half the world thinks burn-in is a problem while the other half thinks it won't ever happen to modern TVs. Frankly, I don't really care who is right or not but I imagine the truth is somewhere in the middle.

That said, I still want to be cautious about it when I get my new plasma TV but I certainly can't wait 100 hours before watching it. After all, it's supposed to be delivered on Friday and the Daytona 500 is on Sunday so there's no way I could get 100 hours of "break-in" before then.

I have heard mentioned in some of those burn-in threads that CRT technologies were more prone to burn-in than plasma but no one has backed that up with any detailed explanation as to why that would be or any links to more information about it. Thus my question...

What is more prone to burn-in and why?

CRT direct view (traditional TV sets)
CRT rear projection
Plasma flat-panel

I am not referring to temporary image retention. I am asking about full-fledged permanent burn-in.

I am retiring a six year old CRT rear projection TV that was supposed to be prone to burn-in (I read all the same arguments years ago) and we never had any issue with it at all. Ever. Just curious if it was more prone to burn-in, then I shouldn't have anything to worry about with plasma.

neos_peace · 02-09-2009, 06:10 PM

You can take my advice how you want. I have les then a year old Plazma (50") Full HD. Yes it is prone to burn-in. Hoever it never lasts long. Maybe a few minutes at most. It goes away either wiht the TV off, or by watching something 3else. However, it doesn't pretain to moving images. It's only when its a still image for long periods of time. Old TV (tube or non-flat) don't get it. Rear projection don't get it. Only Plamza. As far as the 100 hour deal I think that just a manufactoreers thing. Cuz we never did it and nothing. Most TV's have a cleaner or white wipe or whatever it is called, to take care of any major RI. SO I'd say it's not a big concern. Take it for whats it's worth.

dobyblue · 02-09-2009, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neos_peace

I have les then a year old Plazma (50") Full HD. Yes it is prone to burn-in. Hoever it never lasts long. Maybe a few minutes at most.

That is not burn in - burn in is permanent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff92k7

I am retiring a six year old CRT rear projection TV that was supposed to be prone to burn-in (I read all the same arguments years ago) and we never had any issue with it at all. Ever. Just curious if it was more prone to burn-in, then I shouldn't have anything to worry about with plasma.

However you treated your CRT you can basically do the same with your plasma and break-in period is an optional convenient way of getting your plasma through the period when it's most susceptible to burn in, but watching the Daytona 500 will not cause you any problems.

I see CRT's with burn in all the time, but never consumer sets - only ones that have been CRT's used in POS systems at 24 hour drive thru locations like McDon's, Wendy's, etc.

AKBlu · 02-09-2009, 07:10 PM

I have a 50" Plazma and have had it for about 8 months. When I bought the TV the sales man said burn in was a thing of the past and tons of forums I read said the same thing. Well while I was playing battelfield on my ps3 the map for the game has a white border around the square and that did burn in after playing for a few weeks, none of my other games have done anything other than some memory retention that goes away fast and watching tv has not givin me a problem at all, and I love watching Nascar. So now I have this ultra faint white square border in the bottom left of my tv but it's there.

TVguy86 · 02-10-2009, 02:59 AM

I have a plasma as well and played many hours of call of duty on it. I also had IR where the radar is located in the bottom left corner. It stayed for quite a while as i mainly used it for just that video games and then mostly call of duty.
I however would not concern myself alot with IR if you are going to use your plasma for tv, movies, video games.
So I would say that videogames would the the main suspect for IR or burn in. Most of them have a constant image somewhere that never moves. Just watching tv and movies you would probably never have any issues with IR at all.
I guess the main difference is IR will go away after a time. Burn in will not. So yes crt tvs have burn in and plasmas have IR.
I have since moved the plasma upstairs and no longer play videogames on it. The radar IR is no longer present and i have no issues with IR on it at all.

Santeria · 02-10-2009, 06:16 AM

u have to TRY to get burn in like.. watch ESPN for 8 straight hours without changing the channel or having any commercials.

or like just leave a static image on your screen for 7 hours+

U can get burn in, but only in extreme cases.

as for Image Retention, u get it briefly, but goes away.
also u cant even notice it unless u are seriously looking for it...

if u watch a sport and im not a racing fan, but those things seem to run for 2+ hours with no commercials, if u wanna be safe just change the channel after an hour for about 10 seconds then change back.

i watch pretty much ONLY ESPN and i have noticed zero Image retention and my set is about a week old.

RiseDarthVader · 02-10-2009, 06:41 AM

Wow I can't beleive so much people said they had burn in but for only a sort period of time. that is NOT burn in that is just image retention which is not permanent.

AKBlu · 02-10-2009, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVguy86

I have a plasma as well and played many hours of call of duty on it. I also had IR where the radar is located in the bottom left corner. It stayed for quite a while as i mainly used it for just that video games and then mostly call of duty.
I however would not concern myself alot with IR if you are going to use your plasma for tv, movies, video games.
So I would say that videogames would the the main suspect for IR or burn in. Most of them have a constant image somewhere that never moves. Just watching tv and movies you would probably never have any issues with IR at all.
I guess the main difference is IR will go away after a time. Burn in will not. So yes crt tvs have burn in and plasmas have IR.
I have since moved the plasma upstairs and no longer play videogames on it. The radar IR is no longer present and i have no issues with IR on it at all.

I have A plasma and it is burnt not IR it will not go away all though it is very faint.

Bravoxena · 02-10-2009, 07:57 AM

Try to enjoy your equipment rather than worrying about all the bad things that could happen to it.

If you want your TV to remain in good condition, leave it off - forever.

Grif32 · 02-10-2009, 12:22 PM

I have had my Panny plasma for 6 YEARS now. I have gamed on it for many many hrs. Never did the 100 hr break in period or nothing. Watch sports center all the time and I have had ZERO problems with this beast.

Its still has a bright beautiful Picture on it.

I think burn in is not an issue like MANY people make it out to be. I think it comes from NON Plasma owners who like to drag plasma's in the mud. Mostly LCD owners IMHO.

Just my 2 cents.

jeff92k7 · 02-10-2009, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bravoxena

Try to enjoy your equipment rather than worrying about all the bad things that could happen to it.

If you want your TV to remain in good condition, leave it off - forever.

Funny you should say that. I was actually thinking something like that yesterday. I was wondering if I should have just purchased an LCD so I could just sit and enjoy it rather than worrying about burning in the letterbox bars on a plasma.

The older I get, the more I find that I enjoy less expensive equipment more since I can sit and just enjoy the music or movie and not be concerned with the inadequacies of each piece of equipment. The more expensive the equipment is, the more I worry about it.

Oh well. Since most people have posted about IR and only one person has mentioned permanent burn-in, I guess there isn't much to worry about. I'll just try to be cautious for the first 100 hours or so but there's no way I can go that whole time before watching movies on it. I'll mix in the break-in images here and there and I even created a "snow" video in Vegas to run once in a while (artificial black and white pixelation like on untuned NTSC channels).

Thanks for the responses.

Bravoxena · 02-11-2009, 12:46 AM

It's all about balance.

I'm bothered as much as everyone else about the risk of burn-in, but I would rather enjoy my TV than pamper it. If I want to watch my material at the proper aspect ratio, I'm going to need black bars/columns... forget stretching and forget gray bars!

I say let it burn.

TVguy86 · 02-11-2009, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grif32

I have had my Panny plasma for 6 YEARS now. I have gamed on it for many many hrs. Never did the 100 hr break in period or nothing. Watch sports center all the time and I have had ZERO problems with this beast.

Its still has a bright beautiful Picture on it.

I think burn in is not an issue like MANY people make it out to be. I think it comes from NON Plasma owners who like to drag plasma's in the mud. Mostly LCD owners IMHO.

Just my 2 cents.

Just a question then. Has your plasma had any kind of IR?
I know its each plasma independant as well. I mean 10 people can own the same car and each one will have different problems.
Its all up to what you have good luck with. I replaced the plasma that had IR on it with a DLP and no issues at all.
Lol and my LCD in the bedroom has one pixel that is white always. So nothing is fool proof.

Grif32 · 02-11-2009, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVguy86

Just a question then. Has your plasma had any kind of IR?
I know its each plasma independant as well. I mean 10 people can own the same car and each one will have different problems.
Its all up to what you have good luck with. I replaced the plasma that had IR on it with a DLP and no issues at all.
Lol and my LCD in the bedroom has one pixel that is white always. So nothing is fool proof.

I think a couple times I seen a hint of IR but went right away. Knock on wood this baby has been perfect for me. I laugh at people when they say plasmas do not last that long. Hell I already got my monies worth out of it. If it last another couple years then I will be thrilled.

Sonny · 02-11-2009, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grif32

I have had my Panny plasma for 6 YEARS now. I have gamed on it for many many hrs. Never did the 100 hr break in period or nothing. Watch sports center all the time and I have had ZERO problems with this beast.

Its still has a bright beautiful Picture on it.

I think burn in is not an issue like MANY people make it out to be. I think it comes from NON Plasma owners who like to drag plasma's in the mud. Mostly LCD owners IMHO.

Just my 2 cents.

Well said.

yankees3 · 02-11-2009, 05:36 PM

you should of gotten an LCD, so you wouldnt worry about burn-in and could of been worrying about losing pixels! The way you make your selection is on what can you deal with the most on all TV problems. Every TV set has its problems!

jeff92k7 · 02-11-2009, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yankees3

you should of gotten an LCD, so you wouldnt worry about burn-in and could of been worrying about losing pixels! The way you make your selection is on what can you deal with the most on all TV problems. Every TV set has its problems!

So true, so true. If you saw my other thread about TVs for around $1000, you would see that I was originally considering a DLP tv.

I went with plasma for the arguably better movie performance and no screen projection geometry issues. I also picked plasma because DLP still has moving parts (color wheel) and a bulb that could burn out and have to be replaced.

I was aware of the IR issues before deciding on plasma but, like with any new toy that any of us purchase, we always want to make sure we baby it for a while and don't do anything to hurt it. With this, the more I read about burn-in and IR, the more scared I got.

I'm pretty sure I'm over the fears but I will still be cautious in the first 100 hours or so.

jeff92k7 · 02-16-2009, 01:50 PM

IMAGE RETENTION SUCKS!!!!!!

This TV has a absolutley stunning picture to it but definitely has image retention. I completed about 12 hours of break-in before watching the Daytona 500 yesterday. All my picture settings are set to 50 or below with most of them around 40 or 45. But after only two hours of the actual race, the ticker at the top showing each drivers position was already clearly visible on other screens. That ticker is only present about 50% of the time during that two hour period. The rest is other shots, graphics, or commercials.

I wound up turning the race off and moving the tv back to our bedroom to let it cycle through the break in images again. After an hour an a half of nothing but the break in images, the image retention of the ticker is finally to a point where you can't see it. We watched tv for the rest of the day on our old tv. It looks like poo but at least I don't have to worry about burn-in with it.

Hopefully this IR thing will calm down after a good break in period but I really have to wonder now. If it showed up that quickly with something that wasn't on the screen the whole time, I seriously have to wonder what will happen after a two hour letterbox movie where the bars are present the whole time.

I seriously don't see how some of you people play games for hours on end and say you have zero image retention.

That aside. I never knew a tv could look this good and I don't even have it calibrated yet. There is zero motion blur and the contrast is astounding.

My_Two_Cents · 02-16-2009, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKBlu

I have A plasma and it is burnt not IR it will not go away all though it is very faint.

What brand and how old is the set?

Tempest · 02-16-2009, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiseDarthVader

Wow I can't beleive so much people said they had burn in but for only a sort period of time. that is NOT burn in that is just image retention which is not permanent.

Question: How is ANY image retention acceptable? I mainly watch movies anyways but I don't want to pay thousands for a TV and have to worry about how I watch my TV. I also don't want to wait a few hours to watch something else because of a IR problem that has to be fixed with wipe screens before I can watch something else. I would love to have the picture quaility of a good Plasma but I don't want to live with IR hassles.

This is probably why LCD is wining over Plasma, they just can't get the IR problems solved.

02-09-2009, 01:41 PM	#1
jeff92k7 Active Member Member since:Dec 2008 Location:Dallas, Texas Blu-ray collection:13	Questions about burn-in (this one is a bit different) Okay, I know there have been hundreds of posts about burn-in (image retention) and I have read through as much as I could stand. It's very clear that half the world thinks burn-in is a problem while the other half thinks it won't ever happen to modern TVs. Frankly, I don't really care who is right or not but I imagine the truth is somewhere in the middle. That said, I still want to be cautious about it when I get my new plasma TV but I certainly can't wait 100 hours before watching it. After all, it's supposed to be delivered on Friday and the Daytona 500 is on Sunday so there's no way I could get 100 hours of "break-in" before then. I have heard mentioned in some of those burn-in threads that CRT technologies were more prone to burn-in than plasma but no one has backed that up with any detailed explanation as to why that would be or any links to more information about it. Thus my question... What is more prone to burn-in and why? CRT direct view (traditional TV sets) CRT rear projection Plasma flat-panel I am not referring to temporary image retention. I am asking about full-fledged permanent burn-in. I am retiring a six year old CRT rear projection TV that was supposed to be prone to burn-in (I read all the same arguments years ago) and we never had any issue with it at all. Ever. Just curious if it was more prone to burn-in, then I shouldn't have anything to worry about with plasma.

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02-09-2009, 06:10 PM	#2
neos_peace Special Member Member since:Jul 2008 Location:Shamokin Dam, Pa Home Theater Gallery:14 Blu-ray collection:279 Trading Score:1	You can take my advice how you want. I have les then a year old Plazma (50") Full HD. Yes it is prone to burn-in. Hoever it never lasts long. Maybe a few minutes at most. It goes away either wiht the TV off, or by watching something 3else. However, it doesn't pretain to moving images. It's only when its a still image for long periods of time. Old TV (tube or non-flat) don't get it. Rear projection don't get it. Only Plamza. As far as the 100 hour deal I think that just a manufactoreers thing. Cuz we never did it and nothing. Most TV's have a cleaner or white wipe or whatever it is called, to take care of any major RI. SO I'd say it's not a big concern. Take it for whats it's worth.

02-09-2009, 07:10 PM	#4
AKBlu Member Member since:Jul 2008 Location:Alaska Blu-ray reviews:1	I have a 50" Plazma and have had it for about 8 months. When I bought the TV the sales man said burn in was a thing of the past and tons of forums I read said the same thing. Well while I was playing battelfield on my ps3 the map for the game has a white border around the square and that did burn in after playing for a few weeks, none of my other games have done anything other than some memory retention that goes away fast and watching tv has not givin me a problem at all, and I love watching Nascar. So now I have this ultra faint white square border in the bottom left of my tv but it's there.

02-10-2009, 02:59 AM	#5
TVguy86 Active Member Member since:Jul 2008 Location:GO HUSKERS.	I have a plasma as well and played many hours of call of duty on it. I also had IR where the radar is located in the bottom left corner. It stayed for quite a while as i mainly used it for just that video games and then mostly call of duty. I however would not concern myself alot with IR if you are going to use your plasma for tv, movies, video games. So I would say that videogames would the the main suspect for IR or burn in. Most of them have a constant image somewhere that never moves. Just watching tv and movies you would probably never have any issues with IR at all. I guess the main difference is IR will go away after a time. Burn in will not. So yes crt tvs have burn in and plasmas have IR. I have since moved the plasma upstairs and no longer play videogames on it. The radar IR is no longer present and i have no issues with IR on it at all.

02-10-2009, 06:16 AM	#6
Santeria Special Member Member since:Oct 2007 Location:San Diego Home Theater Gallery:14 Blu-ray collection:20 Trading Score:4	u have to TRY to get burn in like.. watch ESPN for 8 straight hours without changing the channel or having any commercials. or like just leave a static image on your screen for 7 hours+ U can get burn in, but only in extreme cases. as for Image Retention, u get it briefly, but goes away. also u cant even notice it unless u are seriously looking for it... if u watch a sport and im not a racing fan, but those things seem to run for 2+ hours with no commercials, if u wanna be safe just change the channel after an hour for about 10 seconds then change back. i watch pretty much ONLY ESPN and i have noticed zero Image retention and my set is about a week old.

02-10-2009, 06:41 AM	#7
RiseDarthVader Power Member Member since:Sep 2008 Location:Australia Blu-ray collection:136	Wow I can't beleive so much people said they had burn in but for only a sort period of time. that is NOT burn in that is just image retention which is not permanent.

02-10-2009, 07:57 AM	#9
Bravoxena Member Member since:Oct 2008 Blu-ray collection:8	Try to enjoy your equipment rather than worrying about all the bad things that could happen to it. If you want your TV to remain in good condition, leave it off - forever.

02-10-2009, 12:22 PM	#10
Grif32 Expert Member Member since:Oct 2007 Trading Score:1	I have had my Panny plasma for 6 YEARS now. I have gamed on it for many many hrs. Never did the 100 hr break in period or nothing. Watch sports center all the time and I have had ZERO problems with this beast. Its still has a bright beautiful Picture on it. I think burn in is not an issue like MANY people make it out to be. I think it comes from NON Plasma owners who like to drag plasma's in the mud. Mostly LCD owners IMHO. Just my 2 cents.

02-11-2009, 12:46 AM	#12
Bravoxena Member Member since:Oct 2008 Blu-ray collection:8	It's all about balance. I'm bothered as much as everyone else about the risk of burn-in, but I would rather enjoy my TV than pamper it. If I want to watch my material at the proper aspect ratio, I'm going to need black bars/columns... forget stretching and forget gray bars! I say let it burn.

02-11-2009, 05:36 PM	#16
yankees3 Active Member Member since:Jun 2008 Location:Austin, TX	you should of gotten an LCD, so you wouldnt worry about burn-in and could of been worrying about losing pixels! The way you make your selection is on what can you deal with the most on all TV problems. Every TV set has its problems!

02-16-2009, 01:50 PM	#18
jeff92k7 Active Member Member since:Dec 2008 Location:Dallas, Texas Blu-ray collection:13	IMAGE RETENTION SUCKS!!!!!! This TV has a absolutley stunning picture to it but definitely has image retention. I completed about 12 hours of break-in before watching the Daytona 500 yesterday. All my picture settings are set to 50 or below with most of them around 40 or 45. But after only two hours of the actual race, the ticker at the top showing each drivers position was already clearly visible on other screens. That ticker is only present about 50% of the time during that two hour period. The rest is other shots, graphics, or commercials. I wound up turning the race off and moving the tv back to our bedroom to let it cycle through the break in images again. After an hour an a half of nothing but the break in images, the image retention of the ticker is finally to a point where you can't see it. We watched tv for the rest of the day on our old tv. It looks like poo but at least I don't have to worry about burn-in with it. Hopefully this IR thing will calm down after a good break in period but I really have to wonder now. If it showed up that quickly with something that wasn't on the screen the whole time, I seriously have to wonder what will happen after a two hour letterbox movie where the bars are present the whole time. I seriously don't see how some of you people play games for hours on end and say you have zero image retention. That aside. I never knew a tv could look this good and I don't even have it calibrated yet. There is zero motion blur and the contrast is astounding.

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