Halloween (1978) Concorde - Feb 28th, 2019

[Agent Kay]

Its the same underling master, but it was never going to be 1:1 to a UHD, even a Lionsgate one

[Markgway]

Originally Posted by andreasy969

So compression, framing and title wise Lionsgate wins AFAICT (except for the framing this also was to be expected with Concorde I'd like to add).

Why can't they get it right just once?

All they frickin' had to do was take the Lionsgate and add the original mono.

A frickin' child could've done that!

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by Markgway

Why can't they get it right just once?

The English mono is supposed to be very good though going by a member who I'm willing to believe it. He also says that the English 7.1 (and therefore the 7.1 on the Lionsgate as well, if I assume both are the same), is basically "crap" in comparison though (an "impudence" to quote him), so I for one don't know what to make out of the mono anymore as I certainly do not consider the 7.1 of the Lionsgate to be "crap" at all...

I also asked if he could provide an audio sample of the supposedly way superior mono to compare it for myself, but since I made a "snarky" remark on the German dub at the wrong time, he won't do so anymore now.

People and I just don't work well. Not that I'm not used to it or care anymore.

tl/tr: If you don't mind some, I suppose, minor compression issues and/or the German titles, the Concorde may still very well be the better choice because of the supposedly way better audio.

For me it will be ignorance is bliss with Halloween now.

[JohnCarpenterLives]

Originally Posted by andreasy969

Not really. Had they done just this, they'd look exactly the same except for the resolution.


Other than that: Localized German titles confirmed for the UHD as well and at least two people mentioned some minor compression problems (blocking) with the Concorde UHD now (explicitly as opposed to the Lionsgate with one comment). So compression, framing and title wise Lionsgate wins AFAICT (except for the framing this also was to be expected with Concorde I'd like to add).

Framing is essential for JC films. I'm skipping this, and going with my homebrewed US UHD video with ORIGINAL mono track ripped from laser disc.

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by JohnCarpenterLives

Framing is essential for JC films. I'm skipping this, and going with my homebrewed US UHD video with ORIGINAL mono track ripped from laser disc.

Oh, yes, I forgot about the framing, but I honestly do consider according discussions rather hyperbolic more often than not. Which is just me of course.

Other than that, yes, your way appears to be the best approach. I just don't care enough and since I tend not to use stuff I didn't pay for, I'll be just fine with my "terrible" 7.1 audio.

I might do exactly this with another rather hot topic though, if I find the time and leisure for it.

[lilboyblu]

Thanks for all the info. This will be a pass for me as well. Have decided to still sell my Lionsgate UHD and keep the Spain Blu-ray (missed out on the Shout Factory boxset) since that has the 4K remaster and still includes the original mono in lossless. It's sacrificing the superior PQ of UHD, but I much prefer the original audio in lossless and correct framing.

[andreasy969]

I'm also still considering getting my hands on the "evil" ES Blu-ray, which is the cheapest option to get a disc with the lossless mono, to see/listen what all the fuzz is about. (and then maybe go custom as well)

As I said, I don't care that much since I'm really fine with the 7.1, but people have piqued my interest.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by andreasy969

I'm also still considering getting my hands on the "evil" ES Blu-ray, which is the cheapest option to get a disc with the lossless mono, to see/listen what all the fuzz is about. (and then maybe go custom as well)

As I said, I don't care that much since I'm really fine with the 7.1, but people have piqued my interest.

Like most remix tracks that get hate and attention (Jaws, Terminator) the issue most people have is new effects added and some changed audio. I know the surround track adds some thunder for example.

It's honestly never bothered me anywhere near as much as the changed gun sounds in Terminator, but different people have different bugaboos.

[andreasy969]

The thing is that a guy in a German forum told me that it's not only added effects (I actually do like the thunder btw.), but that the 7.1 sounds really bad in comparison. Again, that's the 7.1 of the Concorde, but he also has the 35th anni blu and says it's the same.

In particular the whole finale is supposed to sound much better on the mono. An example he mentioned is the sound when Michael shows up behind Laurie at 01:17:00. And he says it's not hyperbole, the mono despite being just one channel is supposed to sound much better (more dynamic for ex). Or dialogue being mixed way too quiet in the Loomis/car/nurse scene (which I really cannot say with my US though).

EDIT: here's the whole text from https://www.movieside.de/showthread....6656#pid206656

[Show spoiler]Der Englische Ton:
Den englischen Ton habe ich für die englischen Freunde hier auch mal unter die Lupe genommen. Es war dabei meine erste richtige Berührung mit dem englischen Mehrkanalmix. Trotz Besitz der UK 35th Anniversary Blu Ray habe ich den Film natürlich nie Englisch geguckt Zwinkern
Ich habe nun auf der Concorde Blu Ray den Englischen Mono Ton mit dem englischen 7.1 Ton verglichen.
Der englische Mono Ton ist DEFINITIV (!!) der originale Mono Ton. Die Klangcharakteristik ist völlig anders als beim 7.1 Ton und der englische Mono Ton entspricht sozusagen dem deutschen Mono Ton. Es handelt sich also keinesfalls um einen downmix des 7.1 Tones wie auf der US UHD oder 35th Anniversary BD geschehen. Auch die neuen und veränderten Effekte sind beim englischen Mono NICHT zu hören.
Der englische Mono Ton hat eben dieselben Qualitäten wie der deutsche Mono Ton nur das er noch sauberer klingt. Sauberer im Sinne von weniger Rauschen und insgesamt noch mal frischerer Klang als der deutsche Mono Ton.

Der Englische 7.1 Ton ist…meine Fresse…EINE FRECHHEIT!
Mir war nicht bewusst was da verbrochen wurde bis heute morgen. Ich dachte die Aufregung wegen neuer Effekte, anderer Mischung von Schlüsselszenen usw. sei auch wieder mal etwas Internet Foren Nerd Talk und übertrieben dargestellt. Aber nein…..die Tonspur insgesamt ist ein Schlag ins Gesicht wenn man sie mit dem englischen Mono Ton oder auch dem tollen deutschen 5.1 Sound vergleicht.
Ich habe keine Ahnung was die Tontechniker da geritten hat in manchen Sequenzen.
Zuerst mal fügen sich viele der neuen/veränderten Soundeffekte etwas inhomogen ein. Speziell wenn man mit den anderen Tonspuren vergleicht welche die Originaleffekte haben.
Dann ist der Ton auch sonst sehr unausgewogen. Da gibt es mal Passagen die Dank neuer Effekte und auf brachial getrimmtes Sound-Design möglichst wie neue Filme rüberkommen sollen und dann wiederum zahlreiche Passagen wo der englische 7.1 ein Schatten des Mono Tons ist und Audio Jump Scares und Score überhaupt nicht mehr richtig zur Geltung kommen. Gerade der Score wurde da teilweise echt komisch abgemischt im englischen 7.1 Sound. Viel zu diffus manchmal gegenüber den anderen Tonspuren.
Selbst das Intro wo man im englischen 7.1 den Score richtig breit aufziehen will wirkt viel weniger beeindruckend als der klarere zentrierte Mono Sound. Die deutsche 5.1 Spur beweist hier auch viel mehr können. Da kommt die Verteilung in den Räum cooler rüber als im Mono aber eben weil man sich am Original orientiert hat und nicht was völlig anderes gemischt hat.
Beispiel: So sind die Klavierklänge des Hauptthemas im deutschen 5.1 weiterhin schön auf dem Center und die Expansion des Scores wird mit der restlichen Abmischung erreicht.
Beim englischen 7.1 wurde das völlig verändert wodurch es viel undeutlicher/diffuser wirkt insgesamt.
Den Tontechnikern welche diesen 7.1 Mix verbrochen haben sollte man mal eine watschen. Ehrlich. Ich bin ja nun echt nicht heikel. Aber das ist imho ein Trauerspiel sondergleichen phasenweise.
Auch problematisch ist wie leise teilweise die Dialoge abgemischt wurden. Anspielltipp hier die Autofahrt von Loomis und der Krankenschwester zu Beginn des Films im Regen.

Insgesamt gibt es immer wieder Sequenzen die beim engl./Deutsch Mono und Deutsch 5.1 viel brachialere und heftigere Wirkung haben als im Vergleich schwachbrüstigen Englischen 7.1 Sound.
Ich hab auch einen Anspieltipp dafür:
Schaut euch mal das Finale ab 11700 zuerst im Englischen Mono Ton, dann im Englischen 7.1 Ton und dann nochmal im deutschen 5.1 Ton an.
Der englische 7.1 ruiniert dort Audio technisch ALLES. Wirklich ALLES!
Schon allein der Audio Jump Scare bei der legendären Szene als Michael aus dem dunkeln hervortritt ist völlig am Arsch im 7.1 gegenüber den anderen Spuren. Im deutschen 5.1 Mix ist das ein Moment der mich fast vom Sofa hat springen lassen obwohl ich die Szene kenne. Aber der Sound hat dort nen geilen Dynamiksprung verpasst bekommen, setzt zudem auf den originaleffekt und ist einfach geil abgemischt an der Stelle. Genauso auch als Michael Laurie mit dem Messer am Oberarm trifft in der gleichen Szene. Da wird audiomässig eine schöne Spitze gesetzt in ALLEN Tonspuren ausser dem englischen 7.1 wo dem ganzen Finale extrem der Saft fehlt audiotechnisch. Ist ja unfassbar! Wusste echt nicht das die 7.1 Spur dermassen problematisch ist und das Filmerlebnis an einigen Stellen soviel verschlechtert. Vor allem das mit dem Finale geht echt mal gar nicht

and the (poor) google translate (A FRIEND == AN IMPUDENCE to give an example...):

[Show spoiler]The English tone:
I also took a close look at the English tone here for the English friends. It was my first real touch with the English multi-channel mix. Despite the possession of the UK 35th Anniversary Blu Ray, I have of course never watched the movie wink in English
At the Concorde Blu Ray I have now compared the English mono tone with the English 7.1 tone.
The English mono tone is DEFINITIVE (!!) the original mono tone. The sound characteristics are completely different than the 7.1 sound and the English mono sound corresponds to the German mono sound. So it's not a downmix of the 7.1 Tone as done on the US UHD or 35th Anniversary BD. The new and changed effects are NOT heard in the English mono.
The English mono tone has just the same qualities as the German mono tone only that it sounds even cleaner. Cleaner in the sense of less noise and overall even fresher sound than the German mono tone.

The English 7.1 sound is ... my face ... A FRIEND!
I was not aware of what was going on until this morning. I thought the excitement because of new effects, other mix of key scenes, etc. was also again something Internet forums nerd talk and exaggerated. But no ... ..the soundtrack is a total slap in the face when compared to the English mono tone or the great German 5.1 sound.
I have no idea what the sound engineer has ridden in some sequences.
First of all, many of the new / changed sound effects are somewhat inhomogeneous. Especially when compared to the other soundtracks that have the original effects.
Then the sound is otherwise very unbalanced. There are some passages that thanks to new effects and brutally trimmed sound design as possible to come across as new movies and then again numerous passages where the English 7.1 is a shadow of the mono sound and audio jump scores and score no longer really come into their own , Especially the score was partly mixed really funny in English 7.1 sound. Much too diffuse sometimes compared to the other soundtracks.
Even the intro where you want to get the score really wide in English 7.1 seems a lot less impressive than the clearer centered mono sound. The German 5.1 track proves much more here. Since the distribution comes into the room cooler over than in the mono but just because you have oriented on the original and not something completely different has mixed.
Example: So the piano sounds of the main theme in German 5.1 are still nice on the center and the expansion of the score is achieved with the rest of the mix.
The English 7.1 was completely changed which makes it much more indistinct / diffuse overall.
The sound technicians who have violated this 7.1 Mix you should have a wade. Honestly. I'm really not sensitive. But this is imho a tragedy unparalleled in phases.
Also problematic is how quietly the dialogues were mixed. Anippielltipp here the car drive of Loomis and the nurse at the beginning of the film in the rain.

Overall, there are always sequences that have a much brute and violent effect in English / German Mono and German 5.1 compared to weak English 7.1 sound.
I also have a hint for this:
Look at the finale from 11700 first in English mono tone, then in English 7.1 sound and then again in German 5.1 sound.
The English 7.1 wrecks there technically EVERYTHING. Really everything!
Alone the Audio Jump Scare at the legendary scene as Michael emerges from the dark is completely ****ed in 7.1 compared to the other tracks. In the German 5.1 Mix, this is a moment that almost made me jump off the couch even though I know the scene. But the sound has missed there NEN horny dynamic jump, is also on the original effect and is simply cool mixed at the point. Just as Michael Laurie with the knife on his upper arm meets in the same scene. Since audio is a nice tip set in ALL sound tracks except the English 7.1 where the whole final extremely lack of juice audiotechnical. Is unbelievable! Did not really know that the 7.1 track is so problematic and the movie experience worsened so much in some places. Especially with the final is really not even times

[Markgway]

... and still I'm stuck with my 2007 Blu-ray.

Someday someone will get this right.




Just probably not in my lifetime.

[DR Herbert West]

Caps are up:

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?d1=12929&d2=12385&c=4450

[StingingVelvet]

Looks a little brighter with maybe a tad more refined grain, but that could EASILY just be subtle differences in the SDR conversion.

[andreasy969]

I do agree with the brighter, but will revert the second part to the Concorde being a tad more filtered.

I also spotted some oddly smoothed stripes below the black bar at least twice:
https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=3&x...9&l=1&i=6&go=1
https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=3&x...&l=0&i=11&go=1

I did notice this when comparing zoomed to basically 1920x1080 mind you.*

(* and/but German folk will claim that I'm just looking for faults for sure because of it anyway)

[andreasy969]

Do we know if the shifting aspect ratio on the US UHD is intentional btw? I did not notice when watching the movie, but it's clearly there.

If I had to guess I'd say it's a mistake.

[Geoff D]

The what now?

But yes, the Concorde looks filtered to me, not more "refined". Some hefty chroma artefacts buried in the grain on the DE too, e.g. https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=2&x...3&l=0&i=2&go=1 (and I spotted these at regular size, they have been embiggened for emphasis)

[andreasy969]

Just look. The Lionsgate has a different aspect ratio in the last 3 caps. Which happen to be the same caps where the framing is more markedly different.

[Geoff D]

I see. Looks like a mistake, yeah.

[andreasy969]

With all the noise some people make about the proper framing, I just cannot help but be rather amused now.

[Markgway]

Can anyone who has the German UHD post caps of the altered title cards?

[andreasy969]

Can't provide that, but it's supposed to be quality titles with proper/original font. The mentioned example is "30. Oktober 1978".

And I know that even that one would bug me, which is why I see no point in buying the German release (OCD reg. localized titles here I suppose). For others, as stated before, it might be the better option.

"Perfect" is nowhere to be found here though. (I guess the people watching with German dubbing are the only ones that might not share that sentiment)