And thus, it starts... (hard drive-only XBox games)

[joeorc]

Microsoft readies hard drive only Xbox 360 games

An estimated 20% of 360 owners don't own a hard drive
GamePro staff Today’s Top Stories or Other Hardware Stories


August 14, 2007 (GamePro) -- Microsoft announced yesterday that it would soon allow developers of massively multiplayer online role-playing games to require hard drive space when playing games on Xbox 360 despite the console maker's previous denial of such claims.

"Feel free to require 30GB for your game -- [but] that's just going to make your potential audience a lot smaller," a Microsoft representative told a group of developers while speaking at GameFest in Seattle this week.

Effective immediately, Microsoft will not restrict the amount of hard drive space MMO game developers can use. It is unclear if non-MMO games will be allowed to require hard drives for future games on 360.

An estimated 20% of 360 owners don't own a hard drive, which is optional for those only wanting to purchase the Core model.

Developers will be able to create a single "Master Storage File" on user machines as long as the server-based games explicitly state the amount of hard drive space required on the front of the game's box.

Microsoft also said the that it will not increase the allowable size of Xbox Live Arcade games, currently set at 150MB.

Just last week, Microsoft denied reports in an e-mail to GamePro that Xbox 360 Core owners would be unable to play certain games labeled with the "hard drive required" sticker.

"Every game will work with every Xbox 360 system," a Microsoft spokesman told us. That no longer appears to be the case, at least with MMO games

http://www.computerworld.com/action/...&intsrc=kc_top

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Hahaha... Bring On The Pain!

[stockstar1138]

yep, this is just going to ease those poor core suckers into the big bomb: we were mistaken, COD4 will require the HDD, sorry.

[ReduxInflux]

um...yeah...i was one of those early 360 adopters who had to buy the attachable hard drive. and how much was it? oh 100 bucks. for what? 40gigs.
and did i ever use it? nope. months later, i was murdered by the red ring of death, submitted it to microsoft and got back what they told me would be a new system that was actually a refurbished unit. that got old, so i followed the advice of my coworkers and bought a ps3. very satisfied. i stick to sports games anyway so the games out now are more than enough for me...

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by ReduxInflux

um...yeah...i was one of those early 360 adopters who had to buy the attachable hard drive. and how much was it? oh 100 bucks. for what? 40gigs.
and did i ever use it? nope. months later, i was murdered by the red ring of death, submitted it to microsoft and got back what they told me would be a new system that was actually a refurbished unit. that got old, so i followed the advice of my coworkers and bought a ps3. very satisfied. i stick to sports games anyway so the games out now are more than enough for me...

now i ask what are the chances that GTA:IV will require a harddrive to play...?

[Pilam69]

Originally Posted by joeorc

now i ask what are the chances that GTA:IV will require a harddrive to play...?

That game is going to be massive and deep.

[stockstar1138]

Originally Posted by joeorc

now i ask what are the chances that GTA:IV will require a harddrive to play...?

i almost said that joeorc, but thought i might be getting a little ahead of myself. i agree though. r* is having big trouble w/o an hdd, thats the first complaint we heard regarding either system with this game. i bet if ms no longer requires an hdd, r* will make gtaIV with one of those nice "storage required" stickers. so now those core users who thought they got off cheap are going to have to run out and get an hdd and pay the same as a premium w/o the extras in the premium. what a deal. btw joeorc i am RightOn over at eproductwars.com, i see you post over there a bit.

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by stockstar1138

i almost said that joeorc, but thought i might be getting a little ahead of myself. i agree though. r* is having big trouble w/o an hdd, thats the first complaint we heard regarding either system with this game. i bet if ms no longer requires an hdd, r* will make gtaIV with one of those nice "storage required" stickers. so now those core users who thought they got off cheap are going to have to run out and get an hdd and pay the same as a premium w/o the extras in the premium. what a deal. btw joeorc i am RightOn over at eproductwars.com, i see you post over there a bit.

yea i post there because mainly Milt and Mike tend to run things into the ground there. i like how the HD DVD zealots claim SONY is the bad guy here when the entire industry outside of just a few are the real culprits . my point is blu-ray was first to the consumer market . in japan the first blu-ray recorder was on the market for the consumer in 2003 before HD DVD was even designed. but yet people claim that the split in this is SONY's fault.

[supersix4]

as much as I love my 360 this is lame even tho I bought the 120 add on to replace the one that came with it ...

[WickyWoo]

It's just for MMOs apparently, though I'm sure the walls will come tumbling down for the rest soon enough

Honestly, from what I hear the Core is like 10% of their sales, and over half those people buy the HD within a few months

[ToonyLoons]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

It's just for MMOs apparently, though I'm sure the walls will come tumbling down for the rest soon enough

Honestly, from what I hear the Core is like 10% of their sales, and over half those people buy the HD within a few months

Just for MMO's now. There was a time when there was no HDMI coming to the system, and now the Elite has one and it is trickling down to the Pro. Also, the 20GB hard drive was enough. Now there is also a 120GB HDD out. If enough Developers complain or ask for the use of HDD space, MS will cave in and allow it. Also if the reports of a Single DVD not being enough space and the HDD is the answer, allowing devs to use HDD space will become a norm.

What I am concerned about is that until I deleted most of my demos, I had about 2-3gb left. And I could have easily used that 2gb with more demos or trailers. In total the Pro Xbox360 has about 11gb useable when you first get the system. Now I am assuming that the quote was an extream with MS saying "Feel free to require 30gb", but still, this can get insane or limit use to people that only have the Elite, or purchased a 120gb HDD.

[Zaphod]

I think everyone saw this coming, especially since the guys over at Blizzard broke the news that PG4 was limited due to the space on the disc.

[warhawk21114]

ouchies that stinks. There is like a ton of games I like coming out in the next year I would shudder to think games will become HDD required as I own a 360 with the 20 gb drive. That settles it, while they are available on both systems I think it is worth it just to buy the PS3 where the hdd can be put to better use such as psn games, downloads and SAVED games and kudos for sony for seing games requiring more space and adapting to blu-ray where that space is. this will bite msoft in the end. and while yes i own a 360, it will be worth it to see msoft hurting for a change.

[joeorc]

J Allard Responds to Xbox 360 Hard Drive Issue
"I'm not sure who's supposed to be disappointed."
By Jane Pinckard, 10/06/2005
J Allard, Boy Genius, is on a roll. Edge Online has a great write up of quotes from the Xbox spokesperson as he responds to their questions about the two SKUs and the thorny hard drive issue. To the possibility that there may be disappointed fans and developers, Allard responded, "I don't know who we've let down. There isn't a game on 360 that you can't play without a hard drive, so I think that's a good thing for consumers. We've made a commitment to broadening the audience, and while I think most of our energy here at X05 is about the hardcore, over time we're really setting the stage for making this a bigger category for everybody. So from the developer point of view you have the best tools and the commitment of the most well-resourced company in the world going worldwide with this product and saying that we want to grow the audience. So that seems like a win for developers--I'm not sure who's supposed to be disappointed."

He also added, "A lot of people have said: 'This is really confusing--you have different configurations and blah, blah, blah', and I'm like: what consumer electronics business in the world has three manufacturers, three brands that each make one thing that doesn't change for seven years? The answer is none. You go and buy a TV, I guess it's confusing but I like the choice. You buy a cellphone, it could be confusing but I like the choice. Consumers like choice, and it's a very pro-consumer move on our part to say, 'We've got two configurations of system that'll be launching in Europe and if they're not right, we have the flexibility to go and change it'. You buy a TV and it's not progressive scan, you're screwed--you made the choice and you can't upgrade. You buy an iPod Shuffle and you want an iPod Photo, you're screwed--you can't upgrade. You bought a Mini Cooper and you want the Turbo, you're screwed. You buy the Xbox 360 Core system, you can build up to the premium system and you won't be left out of anything along the way. You can pace into this however you want, unlike any of the traditional categories."

So there you have it. Choices are good. Unless you happen to be screwed by them.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3144428

[JTK]

It makes sense. We've been headed this way for several years now.

Since it'll be a begrudging number of years before we ever see the high def standard of Blu-Ray adopted by everyone, especially MS, they're going to have to default to that hard drive that much faster.

Of course this was inevitable and MS was incredibly foolish to ever suggest otherwise. By this, they misled some people.

The Core system was a terrible idea. You buy that and you literally have no way to save your games out of that box.

Immediately you're on to a mandatory out of pocket expense for either a memory card device or a hard drive anyways that ends up costing you more in the long run then if you had just bought a Premium to begin with and call it a day.

^^ I think MS did that on purpose.

So, yeah, it's a relatively minor screw job but pretty much any 360 owner can buy a hard drive at some point and be done with it when they become "necessary."


Yet again, Sony's long term visions are already starting to be vindicated. They had the hard drive angle covered from day one and, of course, the Blu-Ray format and disc space that BD discs allow assure that the PS3 will still be quite current for about the next decade or so.

I fully expect MS to come out with a successor to the 360 in no more than 3-4 years from now. They'll have to, especially when this format war will have long since been settled and I suspect they will begrudgingly have a BD drive on their newer system since that will be the HD optical standard.

Otherwise, they may thumb their nose and use some HD-DVD remnant for a proprietary solution. I wouldn't put it past them just because it would stick in their craw to ever have any BD hardware on their machines.

[joeorc]

Gamefest 2007: 360 MMOs Can Require Hard Drive
Silver users will not be locked out.
By Patrick Klepek, 08/13/2007



In an unsurprising move (and already a precedent set by Final Fantasy XI, but ignored since), Microsoft confirmed at its Gamefest 2007 that studios working on server-based titles for Xbox 360 are allowed to require the hard drive for their games to run. Games allowed to participate in server-based's "bent rules" is decided on a case-by-case basis.

Microsoft will be asking developers to come up with a set amount of hard drive space to set aside for each game. For example, if World of Warcraft came to Xbox 360, Blizzard would have to tell Microsoft "the game's going to need 4GB of space," even if the game won't necessary install 4GB of content at the start.

"We can't guess how much space you're going to need for your updates, and, if anything's going to keep you from expanding indefinitely, it won't be us, as much as market forces," said Ian Lewis, software design engineer at Microsoft. "Feel free to require 30GB for your game; that's just going to make your potential audience a lot smaller."

The requirement is primarily linked to hard drive limitations. "It's the consequence of having a limited size hard drive, with a lot of other things to fill it out," he says. Companies are allowed to expand the required size, but the game should always run on the original requirement -- users have to approve the change. If the requirement goes up, Microsoft is playing with the idea of allowing the ability to degrade -- those are Microsoft's words -- the experience. Their ideas, straight from their presentation:

# Lo-res models/textures
# Place certain areas off-limits
# Stream assests from server (slower loading)

Additionally, Microsoft's clarified their position on the inherent conundrum with subscription titles. Xbox Live requires users to purchase Gold service to participate in online multiplayer, then requires another layer of subscription for the game itself. For server-based games ("MMOs"), however, Silver users are only required to fork over the game's subscription



These policies are still in flux, however. Lewis emphasized this is a flowing process, and Microsoft's own official policies aren't entirely nailed down yet. The server-based official guildines have been drafted, but not approved, but they're targeting the first half of 2008 for XDK support of the hard drive space requirement. "There will be some teething pains, because I'm sure we got some things wrong," says Lewis.

[plee]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

Hahaha... Bring On The Pain!

Either they are desperate or they just don't know what they are doing lately, seem to be adding different versions of the console, core/pro/elite and maybe even a rumored version with the hd-dvd drive built in. I guess they are trying to widen the product line to appeal to more people

[phil]

I just got back from LA, and got to test out COD 4 it looks AMAZING, I might actually pick this up for PC over the consoles.

[Iceman_II]

Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but....

Its a safe assumption that people with the core system would not consider buying the hard drive to download video content.

If M$ can leverage them into getting the hard drive to support a few games, they are also broadening their target audience for downloadable video.... after all, they user HAD to get the drive to play, so now that he has it, maybe he can use it for other things as well...

Personally, I think it is all part of M$'s nefarious plans for world domination.

OK, maybe not world domination, but definately their plans for lining their pockets at the expense of their customers

[phil]

? Gee what made you think of that? 2 words, Xbox Live when I think of Xbox Live, I think of $$ or Pure Profits, or Suckers, or "why am I such a Sucker?" Damn it!