Lose ends - Page 2 - Blu-ray Forum

BTBuck1 · 08-28-2006, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suprmallet

You know, Brian, you're so mad about the lack of HD graphics that you're missing Nintendo's entire philosophy about this generation. There are very, very few people I've spoken to who aren't anywhere from interested to VERY interested in the Wii. I work at a video game store and I get at least as many people asking about Wii preorders as I do about PS3 preorders. The Wii really has a chance at selling the most systems this generation.

Mad

I'd call it more dissapointment.

I feal nintendo is out of touch with the consumer. If they don't think HD is important, than they are off their rockers. When Best Buy's analog tv section shrinks by what seems 1 aisle every 3 months, this is something you can't ignore. Especially if your in the entertainment business.

I just don't concider the Wii a good deal at $250 when aside from the controller it does less than the regular xbox which was what $179 or less? before it's demise.

but your probably right, I'm sure initially they will sell well...i seriously doubt they will improve their 3rd place ranking in the next console war though especially when they admit they arent "in the war"

suprmallet · 08-28-2006, 06:30 AM

Nintendo is out to make a GAMING system, not a hub for your home theater. That is the point. I think you will be shocked at how well the Wii does if you think it won't move past third place.

And Nintendo isn't out of touch with consumers. Most people still play video games on SDTVs. Even people with HDTVs often have a second SDTV for video games.

But with motion sensitivity, virtual console, free online play, connectivity with the DS, and online 24/7, I think you get a hell of a bargain for the asking price. $250 or less is the kind of thing families can go in for without much hesitation. Tell a mother of 4 that between the two systems her kids want, one will cost under $250, and the other will cost $600. Unless she's uber-rich or mentally unstable, she'll pick the cheaper one.

And even hardcore gamers can't wait to get a Wii. Why? Because it's about nothing but gameplay. If Nintendo is focused on gameplay, the gameplay will be great. Ask anyone who went to E3. All the buzz was with Nintendo. Hell, the Wii won the E3 Best In Show. If soooo many people care about HD graphics for video gaming like you claim, then the PS3 (or, more likely, given their showing, the 360) should have won.

Just because you don't get Nintendo's choices doesn't mean they're bad choices.

BTBuck1 · 08-28-2006, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suprmallet

Just because you don't get Nintendo's choices doesn't mean they're bad choices.

You are just buying into the hype cus you work in the sheltered world of gamestop, were the uber gamers and soccer moms troll in to pick up the latest and greatest DS titles.

The predictions have been made by the experts and they are inline with my ranking for nintendo this console generation.

If history has taught us anything it's that it repeats itself,
Nintendo is and has been 3rd place for years!
and everything beside the gimiicky controller has been done for years now & original xbox did even more, so I don't see were the "Value" is.

Gamekid · 08-28-2006, 05:27 PM

To make a strong point, Nintendo is trying to expand the gaming population. They will. You can't expand the gaming population with Microsoft or Sony because I think that you'll have an easier time teaching someone how to use the wii remote, then how to use the XBox 360 controller or dual shock 2 controller.

BTBuck1 · 08-29-2006, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gamekid

To make a strong point, Nintendo is trying to expand the gaming population. They will. You can't expand the gaming population with Microsoft or Sony because I think that you'll have an easier time teaching someone how to use the wii remote, then how to use the XBox 360 controller or dual shock 2 controller.

See this is where i'm lost, How does the Wii mote (something entirely new) attract new audiences, when the standard controller is all we've ever known in gaming?

I think their philosophy around "Expanding the user base" is a cop out to not being able to compete on a technilogical basis, so they are trying to dupe people into the gimmicky controller saying "it's all about the games"
but we'll all soon see if they live up to the hype or not.

Gamekid · 08-29-2006, 04:11 AM

To answer your question, Nintendo wants to expand the gaming population. With the DS lite and brain age, they did just this. If you have played brain age before, you know that all you need to do is to know how to write. If you know how to write, you're playing the game. You don't need to press any buttons. New people were drawn to brain age even though they had never considered playing a game on a hand held before. It's not that they didn't want to spend the money to buy the handheld and one game, it's because there is no easy way to approach playing a handheld like a PSP. Anyway, going back to the Wii remote, the remote is designed in such a way that anyone, reguardless of experience, can instantly play Wii. Keep in mind that some people didn't grow up with video games, like you and I have. The remote makes games come alive because instead of pressing buttons all the time, you use your hands and arms to control movement. The Wii remote is designed to be a virtual tool, it can be a sword, a baseball bat or anything else that you want it to be. The other reason that Nintendo is making the Wii is because if you look at the ps3 or the xbox 360, both consoles are all about looks, as in what you look at on your tv screen. Think about this, if you had to teach someone how to play a game for the very first time, would it be easier to work with a dual shock controller or a remote? Nintendo is not concerned about looks. Everyone seems to think that it's all about looks, but even simple games can be enjoyed. A Wii sports game of golf allowed nongamers to play a game for the first time. Nintendo doesn't want to compete with Sony and Microsoft on a tech basics because their machine lacks what the xbox 360 and ps3 have. Nintendo is just taking a different direction with gaming. There is nothing wrong with this. Hopefully I have answered your question, but let me know if I need to go into a more detailed explanation on certain things.

BTBuck1 · 08-29-2006, 05:11 AM

i understand what they are doing, I just don't understand why they cheaped out and didn't include any HD or Dolby Digital, I mean...c'mon Microsoft had it with the original XBOX 4 years ago! they could of included these things, they are just trying to be the first company to actually profit off of hardware I guess by convincing people it's a "good deal" bah....not for meh

Applefiend · 08-29-2006, 11:33 AM

You know, if Nintendo were here they'd be making like Frank-n-furter from the Rocky Horror picture show..

"We didn't make Wii... FOR YOU!!!"

This is a machine for casual gamers, with casual gamers SD TVs and no surround. Nintendo are after party kids and grannies.

Iwata has spoken of his want for games to be much shorter, less hardcore. Casual gamers have no need for high quality sound/hi def.

It all makes sense but it doesn't seem like a party we're invited to. This isn't for the Gran Turismo petrol heads or the Halo obsessives who watch Red vs Blue every week, or the guys in ten Guilds in Oblivion or the guys who have played through every Tales of RPG. It's for casuals.

But don't feel bad, there's music for casuals, films for casuals, why shouldn't they have their own console?

To be honest, I'm thinking I'm going to play through Red Steel, Mario Galaxy then... The novelty will wear off, very quickly.

partridge · 08-29-2006, 01:41 PM

I have to agree with Brian here, I'm not interested in the Wii either, and that is in part because they seem to have chosen to remain a generation behind! Reports I've read are even suggesting the Wii is, literally, little more than a repackaged GameCube with a new controller.

I'm sure plenty of people are excited and interested, but how long will that last? As for bringing new people to gaming, Sony did that over the last ten years and they managed it with primarily with a standard controller, but brought us the eyetoy, the buzz pads and singstar. All games and peripherals that have brought new people to gaming. And all games that sell in huge numbers, so much so that singstar is a PS3 launch game.

As for HDtv's, yes right now standard tv is everywhere, but - here in the UK - you are already hard pushed to find a CRT tv. Every outlet is pushing flat panels and every one of them is HD. Surely these HD owners want some HD kit to hook up to them? I do, hence my interest in PS3.

The Wii, as with all new consoles, will sell out, but over time I just can't see it taking much ground from Sony and Microsoft. But I don't think Nintendo are that bothered, they just want to make a great games machine, and I'm sure they will, but it's not for me.

ProvenFlipper · 08-29-2006, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Applefiend

This is a machine for casual gamers, with casual gamers SD TVs and no surround. Nintendo are after party kids and grannies.

Iwata has spoken of his want for games to be much shorter, less hardcore. Casual gamers have no need for high quality sound/hi def.

It all makes sense but it doesn't seem like a party we're invited to. This isn't for the Gran Turismo petrol heads or the Halo obsessives who watch Red vs Blue every week, or the guys in ten Guilds in Oblivion or the guys who have played through every Tales of RPG. It's for casuals.

But don't feel bad, there's music for casuals, films for casuals, why shouldn't they have their own console?

To be honest, I'm thinking I'm going to play through Red Steel, Mario Galaxy then... The novelty will wear off, very quickly.

Trying to appeal to the casual gamer is all fine and dandy, but why ignore a whole seperate segment of the market. In actuality, I know far more "hardcore" than casual gamers. If they are so interested in capturing and appealing to this market then they should have made two different consoles to appeal to both audiences.

Make one console as it is, 480p graphics and Dolby Pro Logic. Make another console that is capable of HD graphics and DD. Give the gamer the decision. Little would have to be done to the production of the games, because the lower end console would simply not take advantage of the higher resolutions/ surround sound.

I understand what Nintendo is attempting to do, but I can't understand why they ignored a huge segment of the gaming market. Most likely, the only way I will be getting a Wii, is if my girlfriend wants it and buys it, which is unlikely to happen.

BTBuck1 · 08-29-2006, 04:52 PM

^whats unfortunate, is alot of people think just because huge crowds flocked to the e3 booth that means it's automatically going to sell the same way. I'm sure it will have initial success, moreso in japan if you asked me. But after the launch and the trickle of games come, and then the novelty of the gimmicky controller wears off what are you stuck with? playing another mario kart, another donkey konga and more metroid...whoopie F'n doo! that nunchucka will not be executed on every game, just every game fron Ninetendo (atleast at first). Do you think they are going to re-tool Madden to support it?, or any of the other cross platform games? if they are gonna make it mandatory then they will just alienate any 3rd party chance they had. This Nunchucka may just end up wacking them right upside their heads and either knocking some sense into them, or knocking them into the lonely realms of handheld obscurity for good!

ProvenFlipper · 08-29-2006, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian@BBY

^whats unfortunate, is alot of people think just because huge crowds flocked to the e3 booth that means it's automatically going to sell the same way. I'm sure it will have initial success, moreso in japan if you asked me. But after the launch and the trickle of games come, and then the novelty of the gimmicky controller wears off what are you stuck with? playing another mario kart, another donkey konga and more metroid...whoopie F'n doo! that nunchucka will not be executed on every game, just every game fron Ninetendo (atleast at first). Do you think they are going to re-tool Madden to support it?, or any of the other cross platform games? if they are gonna make it mandatory then they will just alienate any 3rd party chance they had. This Nunchucka may just end up wacking them right upside their heads and either knocking some sense into them, or knocking them into the lonely realms of handheld obscurity for good!

I agree with you, but for the record, Madden is going to use the Wii-mote and there are lots of other 3rd party games that are developing games with Wii-mote interactivity. But that's now when things are new. Everyone wants a piece of something when its new. How long are developers going to implement the technology, especially when game sales slump.

Also what about peoples hands and arms getting tired? I want to stop playing a game because I feel like it, not because my arm is tired.

BTBuck1 · 08-29-2006, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProvenFlipper

I agree with you, but for the record, Madden is going to use the Wii-mote and there are lots of other 3rd party games that are developing games with Wii-mote interactivity. But that's now when things are new. Everyone wants a piece of something when its new. How long are developers going to implement the technology, especially when game sales slump.

Also what about peoples hands and arms getting tired? I want to stop playing a game because I feel like it, not because my arm is tired.

See IMO madden is a 2 player game. It should be played in groups, online etc. If my boy has Madden on xbox, & I have it on ps2 he can come over and play and pick it up relatively easy. This Wii mote thing will be a turn off in situations like this...But this is just all my specualtion ofcourse. I just don't see 30 yr old guys like me sitting in their living room swinging around a controller in the air any more than me using a dance pad.

And before anyone says anything about 30yr olds and video games, we started this shit...and most gamers fall into the 25-35yr old range.

ProvenFlipper · 08-29-2006, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian@BBY

See IMO madden is a 2 player game. It should be played in groups, online etc. If my boy has Madden on xbox, & I have it on ps2 he can come over and play and pick it up relatively easy. This Wii mote thing will be a turn off in situations like this...But this is just all my specualtion ofcourse. I just don't see 30 yr old guys like me sitting in their living room swinging around a controller in the air any more than me using a dance pad.

And before anyone says anything about 30yr olds and video games, we started this shit...and most gamers fall into the 25-35yr old range.

LOL... If I came through and saw you swinging a controller around or using a dance pad, I probably would be clowning... Even worse if I saw you and a friend swinging controllers around... Hilarity would definately ensue.

partridge · 08-29-2006, 06:20 PM

My feelings exactly, it's one thing for me to be waving a PS3 pad around to steer a plane, it's another to be thrashing my arms around playing a tennis game on the Wii.

Everyone thinks the expected low price makes it an impulse purchase, but it could become an expensive console if it doesn't get used because the casual gamer can't be bothered to use the controller, preferring the comfort of their sofa and a standard joypad.

Applefiend · 08-29-2006, 11:42 PM

Yeah, this is the thing I think about most. Why would I want to play an RPG for two hours at a time by waving my hands? I don't know if anyone hardcore plays RPG here, but to get anywhere you gotta play them for 2 or more hours in a session. You gotta clock up those hours.

Wii's going to end up in a lot of people's cupboards after the novelty wears off.

Gamekid · 08-30-2006, 12:26 AM

I think that a standard gamecube controller will be used because with super smash bros brawl, the wii remote will not be used. It would be very hard to play smash bros with the remote so if a game doesn't work well with the remote then you can use a gamecube controller instead.

BTBuck1 · 08-30-2006, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gamekid

I think that a standard gamecube controller will be used because with super smash bros brawl, the wii remote will not be used. It would be very hard to play smash bros with the remote so if a game doesn't work well with the remote then you can use a gamecube controller instead.

which brings me back to the point of whats the point.

Applefiend · 08-30-2006, 12:10 PM

But it's wicked to mock the afflicted. I think deep down the hardcore Nintendo fans are looking at Metroid Prime 3 for their next gen system.. Bloody identical to Metroid Prime 2, and realise they got the bum deal out of the Sony ,Microsoft and Nintendo fans.

Gamekid · 08-30-2006, 05:24 PM

Keep in mind that if you use the wii remote on most games, it is a very easy way to play most games. With the wii remote, you don't have to memorize complex button layouts like you do with the xbox 360 and ps3. Nintendo wants to have nongamers play wii, but that doesn't mean that the wii is only for nongamers. Wii is meant for casual and hardcore gamers as well. With a wide variety of content available for the wii, eveyone can play something that suits their skill level and experience.

08-29-2006, 11:33 AM	#28
Applefiend Active Member Member since:Jul 2006	You know, if Nintendo were here they'd be making like Frank-n-furter from the Rocky Horror picture show.. "We didn't make Wii... FOR YOU!!!" This is a machine for casual gamers, with casual gamers SD TVs and no surround. Nintendo are after party kids and grannies. Iwata has spoken of his want for games to be much shorter, less hardcore. Casual gamers have no need for high quality sound/hi def. It all makes sense but it doesn't seem like a party we're invited to. This isn't for the Gran Turismo petrol heads or the Halo obsessives who watch Red vs Blue every week, or the guys in ten Guilds in Oblivion or the guys who have played through every Tales of RPG. It's for casuals. But don't feel bad, there's music for casuals, films for casuals, why shouldn't they have their own console? To be honest, I'm thinking I'm going to play through Red Steel, Mario Galaxy then... The novelty will wear off, very quickly. Last edited by Applefiend; 08-29-2006 at 11:39 AM.

08-29-2006, 04:52 PM	#31
BTBuck1 Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jun 2006 Location:Oceanside, CA. Blu-ray collection:507 DVD collection:1	^whats unfortunate, is alot of people think just because huge crowds flocked to the e3 booth that means it's automatically going to sell the same way. I'm sure it will have initial success, moreso in japan if you asked me. But after the launch and the trickle of games come, and then the novelty of the gimmicky controller wears off what are you stuck with? playing another mario kart, another donkey konga and more metroid...whoopie F'n doo! that nunchucka will not be executed on every game, just every game fron Ninetendo (atleast at first). Do you think they are going to re-tool Madden to support it?, or any of the other cross platform games? if they are gonna make it mandatory then they will just alienate any 3rd party chance they had. This Nunchucka may just end up wacking them right upside their heads and either knocking some sense into them, or knocking them into the lonely realms of handheld obscurity for good! Last edited by BTBuck1; 08-29-2006 at 04:54 PM.

08-29-2006, 11:42 PM	#36
Applefiend Active Member Member since:Jul 2006	Yeah, this is the thing I think about most. Why would I want to play an RPG for two hours at a time by waving my hands? I don't know if anyone hardcore plays RPG here, but to get anywhere you gotta play them for 2 or more hours in a session. You gotta clock up those hours. Wii's going to end up in a lot of people's cupboards after the novelty wears off. Last edited by Applefiend; 08-30-2006 at 07:35 AM.

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08-28-2006, 06:30 AM	#22
suprmallet Active Member Member since:Jun 2006 Blu-ray collection:264	Nintendo is out to make a GAMING system, not a hub for your home theater. That is the point. I think you will be shocked at how well the Wii does if you think it won't move past third place. And Nintendo isn't out of touch with consumers. Most people still play video games on SDTVs. Even people with HDTVs often have a second SDTV for video games. But with motion sensitivity, virtual console, free online play, connectivity with the DS, and online 24/7, I think you get a hell of a bargain for the asking price. $250 or less is the kind of thing families can go in for without much hesitation. Tell a mother of 4 that between the two systems her kids want, one will cost under $250, and the other will cost $600. Unless she's uber-rich or mentally unstable, she'll pick the cheaper one. And even hardcore gamers can't wait to get a Wii. Why? Because it's about nothing but gameplay. If Nintendo is focused on gameplay, the gameplay will be great. Ask anyone who went to E3. All the buzz was with Nintendo. Hell, the Wii won the E3 Best In Show. If soooo many people care about HD graphics for video gaming like you claim, then the PS3 (or, more likely, given their showing, the 360) should have won. Just because you don't get Nintendo's choices doesn't mean they're bad choices.

08-28-2006, 05:27 PM	#24
Gamekid Power Member Member since:Feb 2006	To make a strong point, Nintendo is trying to expand the gaming population. They will. You can't expand the gaming population with Microsoft or Sony because I think that you'll have an easier time teaching someone how to use the wii remote, then how to use the XBox 360 controller or dual shock 2 controller.

08-29-2006, 04:11 AM	#26
Gamekid Power Member Member since:Feb 2006	To answer your question, Nintendo wants to expand the gaming population. With the DS lite and brain age, they did just this. If you have played brain age before, you know that all you need to do is to know how to write. If you know how to write, you're playing the game. You don't need to press any buttons. New people were drawn to brain age even though they had never considered playing a game on a hand held before. It's not that they didn't want to spend the money to buy the handheld and one game, it's because there is no easy way to approach playing a handheld like a PSP. Anyway, going back to the Wii remote, the remote is designed in such a way that anyone, reguardless of experience, can instantly play Wii. Keep in mind that some people didn't grow up with video games, like you and I have. The remote makes games come alive because instead of pressing buttons all the time, you use your hands and arms to control movement. The Wii remote is designed to be a virtual tool, it can be a sword, a baseball bat or anything else that you want it to be. The other reason that Nintendo is making the Wii is because if you look at the ps3 or the xbox 360, both consoles are all about looks, as in what you look at on your tv screen. Think about this, if you had to teach someone how to play a game for the very first time, would it be easier to work with a dual shock controller or a remote? Nintendo is not concerned about looks. Everyone seems to think that it's all about looks, but even simple games can be enjoyed. A Wii sports game of golf allowed nongamers to play a game for the first time. Nintendo doesn't want to compete with Sony and Microsoft on a tech basics because their machine lacks what the xbox 360 and ps3 have. Nintendo is just taking a different direction with gaming. There is nothing wrong with this. Hopefully I have answered your question, but let me know if I need to go into a more detailed explanation on certain things.

08-29-2006, 05:11 AM	#27
BTBuck1 Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jun 2006 Location:Oceanside, CA. Blu-ray collection:507 DVD collection:1	i understand what they are doing, I just don't understand why they cheaped out and didn't include any HD or Dolby Digital, I mean...c'mon Microsoft had it with the original XBOX 4 years ago! they could of included these things, they are just trying to be the first company to actually profit off of hardware I guess by convincing people it's a "good deal" bah....not for meh

08-29-2006, 01:41 PM	#29
partridge Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Oct 2005 Location:England	I have to agree with Brian here, I'm not interested in the Wii either, and that is in part because they seem to have chosen to remain a generation behind! Reports I've read are even suggesting the Wii is, literally, little more than a repackaged GameCube with a new controller. I'm sure plenty of people are excited and interested, but how long will that last? As for bringing new people to gaming, Sony did that over the last ten years and they managed it with primarily with a standard controller, but brought us the eyetoy, the buzz pads and singstar. All games and peripherals that have brought new people to gaming. And all games that sell in huge numbers, so much so that singstar is a PS3 launch game. As for HDtv's, yes right now standard tv is everywhere, but - here in the UK - you are already hard pushed to find a CRT tv. Every outlet is pushing flat panels and every one of them is HD. Surely these HD owners want some HD kit to hook up to them? I do, hence my interest in PS3. The Wii, as with all new consoles, will sell out, but over time I just can't see it taking much ground from Sony and Microsoft. But I don't think Nintendo are that bothered, they just want to make a great games machine, and I'm sure they will, but it's not for me.

08-29-2006, 06:20 PM	#35
partridge Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Oct 2005 Location:England	My feelings exactly, it's one thing for me to be waving a PS3 pad around to steer a plane, it's another to be thrashing my arms around playing a tennis game on the Wii. Everyone thinks the expected low price makes it an impulse purchase, but it could become an expensive console if it doesn't get used because the casual gamer can't be bothered to use the controller, preferring the comfort of their sofa and a standard joypad.

08-30-2006, 12:26 AM	#37
Gamekid Power Member Member since:Feb 2006	I think that a standard gamecube controller will be used because with super smash bros brawl, the wii remote will not be used. It would be very hard to play smash bros with the remote so if a game doesn't work well with the remote then you can use a gamecube controller instead.

08-30-2006, 12:10 PM	#39
Applefiend Active Member Member since:Jul 2006	But it's wicked to mock the afflicted. I think deep down the hardcore Nintendo fans are looking at Metroid Prime 3 for their next gen system.. Bloody identical to Metroid Prime 2, and realise they got the bum deal out of the Sony ,Microsoft and Nintendo fans.

08-30-2006, 05:24 PM	#40
Gamekid Power Member Member since:Feb 2006	Keep in mind that if you use the wii remote on most games, it is a very easy way to play most games. With the wii remote, you don't have to memorize complex button layouts like you do with the xbox 360 and ps3. Nintendo wants to have nongamers play wii, but that doesn't mean that the wii is only for nongamers. Wii is meant for casual and hardcore gamers as well. With a wide variety of content available for the wii, eveyone can play something that suits their skill level and experience.

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