How can a speaker be good for HT but not for music? or vice versa

[rded]

Originally Posted by btf1980

No.

Well, its a good thing I went with the Denon DVD-1800 then!

[naturephoto1]

Originally Posted by rded

Well, its a good thing I went with the Denon DVD-1800 then!

Rhett,

I am not sure if I would expect the Denon DVD-1800 to have sound or video as good as the Denon DVD 3800 BDCI via HDMI cables. The components and the circuitry I would think will also contribute ultimately to the sound and the video. If the parts and circuitry would have no effect than the upgrades (modifications) made to my 3800 would have had no effect and that is certainly not the case. Also, if you believe that changing power cords have any affect on the performance, this is not a ready option with the 1800 while it would be with the 2500 and the 3800.

Rich

[btf1980]

Originally Posted by naturephoto1

I am not sure if I would expect the Denon DVD-1800 to have sound or video as good as the Denon DVD 3800 BDCI via HDMI cables. The components and the circuitry I would think will also contribute ultimately to the sound and the video. If the parts and circuitry would have no effect than the upgrades (modifications) made to my 3800 would have had no effect and that is certainly not the case. Also, if you believe that changing power cords have any affect on the performance, this is not a ready option with the 1800 while it would be with the 2500 and the 3800.

Rich

For DVD upconversion, the 3800 will be superior since it has the Realta chip. For blu-ray viewing, there is no difference in PQ that I have seen. Anyone is free to disagree, but I have access to all the Denon players, have spent some time with them all, and the differences that was noted was mostly from DVD upconversion and analog outputs.

In terms of audio fidelity, unless you are using the analog outs of the 3800, this is a moot point.

No one knows what Dave Schulte does, and from your posts, I don't think you remotely know either. You keep bringing up how much better your 3800 sounds. Better compared to what? Did you compare your modded 3800 to an unmodded one simultaneously? Everything about it reads like a Stereophile magazine. Chock full of vagueness, unsubstantiated claims, no proof of anything, no comparisons of modded and unmodded source units at the same time. It really gets old.

Changing power cords on blu-ray players? <sigh>

[naturephoto1]

Originally Posted by btf1980

For DVD upconversion, the 3800 will be superior since it has the Realta chip. For blu-ray viewing, there is no difference in PQ that I have seen. Anyone is free to disagree, but I have access to all the Denon players, have spent some time with them all, and the differences that was noted was mostly from DVD upconversion and analog outputs.

In terms of audio fidelity, unless you are using the analog outs of the 3800, this is a moot point.

No one knows what Dave Schulte does, and from your posts, I don't think you remotely know either. You keep bringing up how much better your 3800 sounds. Better compared to what? Did you compare your modded 3800 to an unmodded one simultaneously? Everything about it reads like a Stereophile magazine. Chock full of vagueness, unsubstantiated claims, no proof of anything, no comparisons of modded and unmodded source units at the same time. It really gets old.

Changing power cords on blu-ray players? <sigh>

I still believe that stock that the 3800 would sound better than a stock 1800 via HDMI out. My comments regarding the improvements in the sound and video perormance of the 3800 were in reference to the machine after it had a second set of upgrades (or modifications done). As to the question of comparison of a stock versus an upgraded 3800 I have not had that opportunity. However, I have had an opportunity to hear upgraded units of many players versus stock expensive units made by Esoteric including a 2 box CD and DAC player. And, from my listening the upgraded equipment sounded better. If you really believe that a $500 or even a $1,000 stock player can sound better than a stock $40,000 player......

If you would like to make such a comparison, you are welcome to do so for yourself. Arrangements can be made for you to listen to these players. I do have some general ideas of what Dave Schulte and other modders do for their modifications. But, I do have the specifics.

Rich

[btf1980]

Originally Posted by naturephoto1

I still believe that stock that the 3800 would sound better than a stock 1800 via HDMI out. As to the question of comparison of a stock versus an upgraded 3800 I have not had that opportunity. However, I have had an opportunity to hear upgraded units of many players versus stock expensive units made by Esoteric including a 2 box CD and DAC player. And, from my listening the upgraded equipment sounded better. If you really believe that a $500 or even a $1,000 stock player can sound better than a stock $40,000 player......

If you would like to make such a comparison, you are welcome to do so for yourself. I do have some general ideas of what Dave Schulte and other modders do for their modifications. But, I do have the specifics.

Rich

The only comparison that matters is a stock 3800 and a modded 3800. That is the only way to know if the player was improved by the mod. There is no other way to know if it is indeed better. Comparing it to something else doesn't tell you anything.

A supercharged Supra can go from 0-60 faster than a Bentley Arnage, but so what? It's an asinine comparison because they aren't the same car, nor do they have the same internals, nor are they meant to compete with each other.

When you start doing A/B tests comparisons of the same source units, modded and unmodded under the same circumstances, then you can make comparisons.

Furthermore, you're making strawman arguments that contradict yourself. You're insinuating that by default expensive players sound better, hence the comparison with the $40K Esoteric combo, yet claim that your modded 3800 which is no where near $40K sounds better. Why don't you compare a modded 3800 and an unmodded 3800? That is the only thing that can be substantiated. Anything else is just subjective.

[naturephoto1]

Originally Posted by btf1980

The only comparison that matters is a stock 3800 and a modded 3800. That is the only way to know if the player was improved by the mod. There is no other way to know if it is indeed better. Comparing it to something else doesn't tell you anything.

A supercharged Supra can go from 0-60 faster than a Bentley Arnage, but so what? It's an asinine comparison because they aren't the same car, nor do they have the same internals, nor are they meant to compete with each other.

When you start doing A/B tests comparisons of the same source units, modded and unmodded under the same circumstances, then you can make comparisons.

Furthermore, you're making strawman arguments that contradict yourself. You're insinuating that by default expensive players sound better, hence the comparison with the $40K Esoteric combo, yet claim that your modded 3800 which is no where near $40K sounds better. Why don't you compare a modded 3800 and an unmodded 3800? That is the only thing that can be substantiated. Anything else is just subjective.

I do not have a stock 3800 available for such a test. Do you have one that you would like to loan to make such a comparison? Also, I was not specifically referring to my 3800 in comparisons in sound with the 2 box Esoteric. I was referring to Denon 2910 and Denon 3910 units that sounded better.

Rich

[pearsall001]

Speakers don't have a clue as to what source is playing. They either sound good to you or they don't.

[Skulltap]

I found that my SVS sub (which I love, by the way) is tuned too low for a high level of musical accuracy. This is greatly affected by the type of music that you are listening to as well. For example, anything that benefits from high-impact, such as hard rock, or hip hop sounds fine. Classical music sounds unbalanced though, b/c of the pronounced low-end tuning.

For movies/videogames/certain music - it rocks.

I have read that other speakers have similar properties on the high-end as well, being very "bright" for regular music, but sounding great with home theater, where the brightness actually enhances the action.

[Driver_King]

I found that my SVS sub (which I love, by the way) is tuned too low for a high level of musical accuracy. This is greatly affected by the type of music that you are listening to as well. For example, anything that benefits from high-impact, such as hard rock, or hip hop sounds fine. Classical music sounds unbalanced though, b/c of the pronounced low-end tuning.

For movies/videogames/certain music - it rocks.

This makes sense. To get the optimum sound with music and movies, you'd want another subwoofer to handle the upper bass frequencies and a subwoofer to handle the lower bass frequencies, like your SVS.

I have read that other speakers have similar properties on the high-end as well, being very "bright" for regular music, but sounding great with home theater, where the brightness actually enhances the action.

This also makes sense. It is also another reason why some people will opt for a separate two-channel system or will opt for bright surround speakers.