4:3 OLED TVs: A Win For All

[chane]

Anyone owning or planning to own an OLED TV surely appreciates their uniquely stunning black level performance, a must for noir genre movie fans. On a related topic, perhaps 55% or more of your favorites were probably shot in 1.85:1 aspect, so the horizontal bars you see shouldn’t be too thick on your standard 16:9 OLED. Some recent movies and some old classics like “2001: A Space Odyssey”, “Sound of Music”, “Three Women”, “Ben Hur” and “Hud” were shot in 2.35: 1. Consequently, they will all have thicker horizontal bars. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspect_ratio_(image)

Everyone hates bars but it’s much worse for many cinephiles like me who also enjoy movies released prior to the mid-50s. Many of those, both “A” and “B” pictures, were filmed in 1.37:1 aspect, such as
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0038559...ref_=ttfc_sa_5
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0042039...ref_=ttfc_sa_5
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0036775...ref_=ttfc_sa_5
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0038355...ref_=ttfc_sa_5
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057207...ref_=ttfc_sa_5
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048261...ref_=ttfc_sa_5
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0023245...ref_=ttfc_sa_5
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0044314...ref_=ttfc_sa_5
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0043131...ref_=ttfc_sa_5
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0041954...ref_=ttfc_sa_5
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0187684...ref_=ttfc_sa_5
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0034587...ref_=ttfc_sa_5

Ditto for decades of vintage TV shows from the early 60s (Perry Mason) to the mid-90s (X-Files).

Try watching any of it even on a 77” OLED. If you’re like me the vertical bars, which will be even thicker than horizontal bars when viewing most widescreen aspect content, will be unbearable. And stretching Perry Mason or cropping Gilda’s (or Scully’s) matador hat is unthinkable. Consequently, many of us are compelled to watch this “pillarboxed” 4:3 content on CRT TVs. Picture quality is not too bad and CRTs have excellent OLED-like contrast ratio. But except for a 40” direct view CRT which Sony once released about 17” years ago, virtually all CRTs are a painfully small 32”, less than half the area of 65” widescreen TVs. And the best of performing CRTs (flat CR tube. component video inputs) are becoming impossible to find, and to get serviced. The same for refrigerator sized rear projection CRTs, which while some had 50” screens picture quality couldn’t match that of direct view CRTs. And though direct view projectors can deliver high contrast ratios and large 4:3 images many of the better models cost at least $5,000. and may present placement problems for some users.

The obvious solution here to persuade select TV brands to market a 4:3 OLED TV, size ~ 40” to 50”.

Unfortunately, as much of the CE industry is closely tied to Hollywood, it’s not surprising that cutthroat aspects of that business reflect indifference towards consumer opinions and expectations, at least among the major TV brands, all of whom no longer accept consumer feedback at their websites. Indeed, “apparent” demand might have grown substantially larger if cinephiles hadn’t given up in disgust with asking OLED brands to release 4:3 TVs. Again, except for perhaps Pioneer, most of the majors are deaf to consumer requests, save perhaps from what they glean from their own prognostications. And try finding their marketing VPs’ contact info to share new product ideas; good luck with that.

However, I am about to begin proposing this new product to several other approachable brands.

While demand for a 4:3 OLED may not be huge it is certainly vibrant and long lived. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...uff-4-3-a.html

Additionally, there still are communities at AVS and at other home theater forums devoted to long defunct direct view CRT TVs, of course which are almost exclusively 4;3. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/64-di...-crt-displays/ And here only two months ago members are still calling to bring CRTs back into production, as they have for years. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/64-di...ine-again.html

It’s also well known among videophiles that CRTs, plasmas and OLEDs share very similar performance levels-unmatched by any existing display technology. But as Anthony1 from the first AVS link above suggested, many CRT fans would instantly embrace a space saving flat panel 40” or larger 4:3 OLED TV.

A good sized 4:3 OLED is the way to go-and ideally with a processor at least nearly as good as Sony’s to upscale DVD and BD content.

Analog Video Connectivity: A Must for the 4:3 OLED

Whatever the reasons for the CE industry’s imposed Analog Sunset, it unfairly deprives cinephiles of enjoying their feature packed Denon, Marantz, Pioneer and other high end DVD players. Sony includes one (1) composite input, though most inconveniently placed on the side of their A9G OLED (presumably just for camcorder playbacks)-but which is unsightly and would require longer cable runs from the TV to the DVD player.

But all high end DVD players have component video outputs. And as that connection yields the highest quality analog signal it likely will make it easier for the OLED’s processor to upscale the DVD video signal.

Furthermore, virtually no currently produced BD players have zoom control-a highly prized viewing tool among cinephiles. I was badly upset that my otherwise excellent Oppo BDP-95 has only partial zoom control; it doesn’t allow you to reposition and center a desired part of the zoomed image on the screen. My new Pioneer UDP-LX500 BD player and the discontinued Arcam 411p are about the only BD players which can. But virtually all DVD players have this advanced zoom control functionality, like my trusty JVC
XV-NA70BK.

Cinephiles have long been victimized by the Blu-Ray Assn for mandating Oracle’s BD-J disc authoring-which by default or deliberately locks out zoom and sometimes also slow motion features-and forces compliance upon BD player brands. But all DVDs are free of these oppressive restrictions that rob consumers of the freedom to enjoy as they please the products they purchase. Advanced zoom and slow motion controls are invaluable viewing tools allowing cinephiles more intimate viewing and appreciation of select scenes. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...9#post17681489

Sadly, few if any DVD players have an HDMI output. Thus, all OLED TVs should include component video inputs-or at the very least a rear mounted composite and/or S-video input. Indeed, all OLED TV brands can be assured that adding this analog video connectivity to the proposed 4:3 OLED will further endear this long awaited niche product to the home theater enthusiast community.

Pixel Count and DVD/BD Upscaling

All currently produced OLED TVs have 4K resolution; the pixel count being roughly four times that of the LCD or LED panels used to build earlier 1080p displays. So unless the 4:3 OLED TV has a high quality on board upscaling processor-like the one in Sony’s A9G OLED-the 1080p BD or 480i DVD content displayed on 4K OLED panels may likely fill only a small part of the screen. Alternately, it’s worth considering that while these processors generally do a good job, since most users would only be watching 4:3 content on a this 4:3 display, if it was instead a 1080 rather 4K OLED, BDs would be shown in their native 1080p scale; only DVDs would need to be upscaled. Of course, there currently are no consumer OLED brands making 4:3 OLEDs, nor are there any 1080 widescreen OLEDs.

Ultimately, only each TV brand would know how the economics of OLED panels with 1080 vs. 4K pixel counts would impact their own production of 4:3 OLED TVs. But if they stay with 4K pixels, Pioneer or those brands below should aim to design the 40” to 50” 4K 4:3 TV’s OLED TV around the best upscaling processor within the niche market price point, perhaps ~$2200. or so. The high quality upscaling of 1080p BDs and DVDs (source formats still probably most common among collectors of vintage movies and TV shows) will allow viewers to sit at a comfortable distance.

Fortunately, as OLED technology has now matured the overall cost of making these TVs today has fallen substantially, thus volume sales risks versus tooling costs may be comfortably low-even when marketing lower volume 4K 4:3 OLED TVs with advanced upscaling, the same full featured remotes found in popular 16:9 widescreen OLEDs-and the added component video inputs.

Regarding assembly parts, though LG is likely still the sole supplier of OLED panels this firm may be helpful in getting 4:3 TVs built as cheaply as possible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Univer...ay_Corporation

And there are now numerous OLED panel fabricators. Perhaps these and others are supplying the Chinese OLED TV brands listed below-those which may already be selling OLED TVs in North America.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._manufacturers https://www.oled-info.com/companies-...play-producers

Again, regarding demand, even if there are conservatively just ~ 10,000 members among the most prominent home theater forums expressing interest in owning 4:3 OLEDs, the number of consumers actually wanting one could be well beyond 10 to 50 times as much. Demand could easily be tested with runs of 7,000 units or so. And if Pioneer or Chinese brand OLEDs can perform nearly as good as Sony and LG models, and/or for a somewhat lower price, sales may grow even higher.

Finally, given the still extant global pandemic lockdown with so many people staying close to home, a 40” or larger 4:3 OLED will make big chunks of one’s vintage personal movie and TV collection look their best.

I will first be approaching Pioneer, as I especially hope it will be they who agree to market this product. Though no longer making TVs, their UDP-LX500, which I purchased last week, is arguably the best full featured BD player in its price class.
https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/P...yers/UDP-LX500

If Pioneer’s 4:3 OLEDs were to impress like their Kuro plasmas had for years they may literally corner the market. Depending on Pioneer’s interest will I decide on approaching several Chinese OLED TV brands which now or soon will be serving the US market. https://www.cnet.com/news/ces-2020-c...ter-us-market/

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...300974574.html

Huawai’s website shows numerous offices throughout the US. Some even post the contact info of their marketing directors at their websites. And unlike the majors, these newcomers welcome consumer feedback.
https://www.sharptvusa.com/contact/
http://www.konka.com.hk/Contact/
https://skyworthusa.com/contact/
https://e.huawei.com/us/how-to-buy/contact-us
https://www.hisense-usa.com/contact/
https://support.tclusa.com/contactus...our%20question

https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/P...eer/Contact+Us
https://pioneerassets.com/contact
https://pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/...sident+and+COO

Bottom Line: If you don’t ask you don’t get. So for those who have long awaited 4:3 OLEDs please express your requests at the feedback/contact pages of the above brands’ websites.

But for the reasons given, please begin with Pioneer.

And please be sure to also your interest for 4:3 OLEDs-and what you’re doing to make them happen-at bestbuy forum, tom’shardware.com, hometheaterforum.com, AVSforum.doc, CNET.com, AVforums.com, Blu-Rayforum.com, et al.

Please do it today!

DISCLAIMER: Though it would be nice to receive credit for helping to make 4:3 OLED TVs a reality, I am in no way seeking any kind of monetary compensation, nor am I employed by the CE industry. For me, it’s all about the joys of home theater.

[Vilya]

I don't see this ever happening even if everyone were to send the TV manufacturers perfumed letters.

Black bars do not bother me; they're even prettier on an OLED. I do not want to make room in my home theater for two TVs with different aspect ratios nor do I want two separate home theaters.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by chane

Everyone hates bars but it’s much worse for many cinephiles like me who also enjoy movies released prior to the mid-50s.

Not at all if its a OLED you don't notices what is not lit up. Thats means except for the presentation its totally dark.

Originally Posted by chane

But all high end DVD players have component video outputs. And as that connection yields the highest quality analog signal it likely will make it easier for the OLED’s processor to upscale the DVD video signal.

So you want to utilize a BD player via HDMI, then if you need to zoom the screen do it with the zoom feature on the player.

[Vilya]

A hypothetical 4:3 55" TV offers 1452 square inches of viewing area when displaying 4:3 content.

A 16:9 77" TV offers 1900 square inches of viewing area when displaying 4:3 content, so even with the vertical black bars you have a 30.86% larger image than you would with a "special" 4:3 55" TV.

A 16:9 77" TV offers 2533.46 square inches of viewing area when using the entire screen.

You are much better off with a single, larger, 16:9 TV than with a smaller 4:3 TV even when viewing 4:3 content.

http://www.displaywars.com/77-inch-16x9-vs-55-inch-4x3

^This website lets you compare different sized TVs with the same or different aspect ratios.

[gkolb]

I don’t understand the basic premise put forth by the OP.

When I happen upon an old Perry Mason episode or TV western, all I see on my 4K TV screen is the content. My eyes are not seeing the pillars at all. Or on a 2.35 movie, I don’t see the top/bottom bars. Not whether it’s day or night.

Why do your eyes focus on the blank screen area instead of the content?

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by gkolb

I don’t understand the basic premise put forth by the OP.

When I happen upon an old Perry Mason episode or TV western, all I see on my 4K TV screen is the content. My eyes are not seeing the pillars at all. Or on a 2.35 movie, I don’t see the top/bottom bars. Not whether it’s day or night.

Why do your eyes focus on the blank screen area instead of the content?

Some people insist that their entire screen be filled lest they feel cheated or distracted by the unused portion, thus the OP's desire for a separate 4:3 OLED TV for 4:3 content and a separate 16:9 OLED TV for all other content. With an OLED's true blacks, the vertical black bars that frame 4:3 content should offer no distraction whatsoever.

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Some people insist that their entire screen be filled lest they feel cheated or distracted by the unused portion, thus the OP's desire for a separate 4:3 OLED TV for 4:3 content and a separate 16:9 OLED TV for all other content. With an OLED's true blacks, the vertical black bars that frame 4:3 content should offer no distraction whatsoever.

Yet I still stand by my contention, how do the bars distract them if they are focused on the content? Whether OLED or not.

Like you said, with a large enough 16:9 display, the full screen 4:3 content area is larger than a certain size 4:3 display.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by gkolb

I don’t understand the basic premise put forth by the OP.

When I happen upon an old Perry Mason episode or TV western, all I see on my 4K TV screen is the content. My eyes are not seeing the pillars at all. Or on a 2.35 movie, I don’t see the top/bottom bars. Not whether it’s day or night.

Why do your eyes focus on the blank screen area instead of the content?

He make this point about OLEDs but because he doesn't own one, he is lecturing us that his view is right and the rest of us are wrong. Look at this malarky.

It’s also well known among videophiles that CRTs, plasmas and OLEDs share very similar performance levels-unmatched by any existing display technology. But as Anthony1 from the first AVS link above suggested, many CRT fans would instantly embrace a space saving flat panel 40” or larger 4:3 OLED TV.

Thats classic "Do not argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience." Who in the heck is a CRT fan?

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Thats classic "Do not argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience." Who in the heck is a CRT fan?

Spot on.
You’ve got me dead to rights with that one.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

He make this point about OLEDs but because he doesn't own one, he is lecturing us that his view is right and the rest of us are wrong. Look at this malarky.

Thats classic "Do not argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience." Who in the heck is a CRT fan?

I missed that tidbit as I only skimmed through his post when it became quickly obvious how ridiculous it had become; a post with 29 links and none of which advance his arguments. If I knew it was going to have that much comedic value, I might have paid more attention.

His disclaimer at the end where he seeks no financial reward, just our undying thanks, for bringing about the "reality" of 4:3 OLED TVs has to be the punchline of the whole absurd and arduous affair.

[Jay H.]

Wow. That's a lot of words.

[noirjunkie]

This is my favorite part.

Originally Posted by chane

DISCLAIMER: Though it would be nice to receive credit for helping to make 4:3 OLED TVs a reality, I am in no way seeking any kind of monetary compensation, nor am I employed by the CE industry. For me, it’s all about the joys of home theater.

I'm sure that when this definitely happens, your internet forum post will be the driving force behind it. We're all truly thankful you're willing to forego the credit--including monetary compensation--you so richly deserve for making it happen.

[CrowKiller]

Another one if those I hate those bars people. Only people used to hate them when they where going the other direction in the DVD days. Maybe we should just stretch the picture for now on. Similar to when they used to release pan and scan "foolscreen" movies on DVDs because too many idiots didn't understand why those bars where there, even if you took the time to explain it. "Durrrr how does it show more picture if the bars are in the way?"

I didn't even read this wall of nonsense. I actually thought some nutjob was releasing a 4x3 OLED, then realized it was just some nutjob complaining about black bars and stopped reading.

[bhampton]

I want a 2.40:1 direct view display.

I may want to move away from projectors at some point and I wish 2.40:1 was available from direct view sets.

Not because I hate black bars but I can easily draw curtains on sides ... that's easy for anyone.

-Brian

[chip75]

Wait ...



There's probably be some interest in a PC monitor, but at the end of the day 16:9 was designed to be a middle ground between the older 4:3 content and 2.4:1.

You'd be better off with a projector, but what we do need is playback devices that accommodate people that use them, ways to set them to output in 4:3 and 2.4:1 so the menus and subtitles are displayed properly.

[JJ]

Pandemic got folks stuck at home, coming up with concepts like these.

A 4:3 display nowadays? I'm all for niche products, but -

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Well, I'm not sure about OLED, but it does seem that 4:3 LCD screens are still being produced to at least some extent.

For instance, that is what is used in the Arcade1up cabinets (pictures at the bottom of this post).

For those not familiar with these, they've been on the market for about a couple of years now (Walmart carries them, and they can be ordered online). I have the TMNT cabinet.

They are 3/4 size arcade cabinets that you assemble like a piece of Ikea furniture, and are meant to replicate the retro arcade experience. The actual electronic components are rather small, unlike original arcade machines. Typically there will be a main game that the cabinet artwork is based on, but they will also usually included another game or two (sometimes more).

Many of these have 4:3 monitors because that is the OAR of the games being played. Some games, like Pac-Man and Galaga cabinets, have different screens that are actually a different ratio entirely since they are more tall than wide.

Personally I wouldn't mind more options like this. Black bars don't otherwise bother me, but as my main TV is still a 1080p Plasma, my concern with it (and with the potential purchase of an OLED set) is the tendency for burn-in, which can still happen even on the better sets that are most equipped to combat that issue.

When it comes to 4:3 content, if I'm going to watch more than a single movie or TV episode on my current Plasma set, I often feel the need to stretch the picture out to avoid burn-in/uniformity issues from the black bars. I was recent binge watching several episodes of Cheers and felt the need to stretch the picture out for exactly this reason.

So I wouldn't mind a solid 4:3 option for both situations like that, and possibly optimized for retro-gaming and connecting old gaming consoles to, with plenty of analog inputs, etc.

[Geoff D]

This thread

[ASLAN]

Bit pointless as ALL blurays are encoded in 16:9, in which case you would not be able to crop out the black bars on the side without a severe loss of resolution. And if all you want is standard def 4:3 content, the best way to view it is on a 4:3 CRT TV, which you can find for pennies on ebay. If you're very posh, and have too much space at home, you can always find an old 4:3 broadcast monitor floating around.

[Shalashaska]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Thats classic "Do not argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience." Who in the heck is a CRT fan?

There's a pretty large CRT following in the retro gaming community because of their handling of the non-compliant 240p signals many old consoles output that wreak havoc with the internal scalers in flat-panel displays, as well as their super clean motion handling, solid black levels and lack of input lag.

My 800 TVL professional Sony monitor comes in handy for standard-def TV too