The Last of Us Part 2 - PS5

[JayTL]

Yeah you can have your own opinion of Joel as a person, but you can't deny that he's not a good person morally.

You can make a case that he turned his life around in between the two games..but he's crossed enough people "in a past life" to justify what happened to him.

Originally Posted by Zivouhr

The Last of Us 3, when will that be available? This time telling the story of Joel from his point of view.

Probably won't happen like that. For all intents and purposes his story is complete. His has a beginning, middle and end. Honestly I'm not interested in any more Joel. If it's a prequel or any type of non-sequel, I'd prefer a totally different cast. Not sure what kind of story is left in that universe with the current characters.

And just taking into account the amount of time they take, we'll be years away when they announce it...whenever that'll be

[Gremal]

Originally Posted by JayTL

Yeah you can have your own opinion of Joel as a person, but you can't deny that he's not a good person morally.

Of course I can--and do--deny that. I had just got through explaining why he's morally the best character in the game before you made this irrational pronouncement. He is loyal, responsible and a protector. Joel is motivated by saving lives, and saved Abby just before she went "full saidsm" on him with a golf club. I keep repeating these solid examples, and you keep repeating he's not a good person morally, with flimsy or no examples.

You can make a case that he turned his life around in between the two games..but he's crossed enough people "in a past life" to justify what happened to him.

I don't get this. Did you expect him to live some sort of virtuous existence as a monk or saint after the entire world went to hell and he lost his daughter? Even the most peaceful man under such circumstances would rapidly change or die. After the infection spread, the only real morality was the law of the jungle. Yet Joel did his best to stick to a higher code of ethics.

Probably won't happen like that. For all intents and purposes his story is complete. His has a beginning, middle and end. Honestly I'm not interested in any more Joel. If it's a prequel or any type of non-sequel, I'd prefer a totally different cast. Not sure what kind of story is left in that universe with the current characters.

On that we can agree. ND did a fantastic job of quickly wrecking in TLOU2 the characters they had built up so brilliantly in TLOU. At this point, the franchise should be ended and Druckman should focus on the HBO series and his Drake movie. Those were the best ideas he is likely to have, and he should milk them for all he can.

[Leonidas King]

Title thread: Rumor - TLoU2 PS5

Actual thread: Back and forth bickering on the story/characters.

[JayTL]

Originally Posted by Leonidas King

Title thread: Rumor - TLoU2 PS5

Actual thread: Back and forth bickering on the story/characters.

I know I'm part of the problem, but it's funny that people are still this mad over a game..instead of...you know, just letting it go

But I'll leave this thread. Since the only notifications I get from this is someone on my ignore list lol.

[Gremal]

Originally Posted by Leonidas King

Title thread: Rumor - TLoU2 PS5

Actual thread: Back and forth bickering on the story/characters.

So? You had something more to add about the rumor? Of course not.

[Zivouhr]

Choices. Which would you choose at the end of Last of Us 1 if you were Joel?

OLD SPOILERS:

To save your adopted daughter from death, or to sacrifice her to a gang of thugs who might be trying to find a cure for the plague, and then might offer it to mankind, at a high price, possibly creating a new class system of "essential" vs "Non-essential" people. Or they might not succeed at all and then kill your daughter for nothing?

In my view, the Fireflies were corrupt and not to be trusted, regardless of what my daughter wanted. It wasn't her choice to sacrifice her life to a bunch of thugs because she is too young and inexperienced in life to make that choice for herself, and the fact she has a special trait that makes her immune.

I would spare my daughter and eliminate the Fireflies as Joel did.

[Steelmaker]

Not exactly Last of Us 2 PS5 news but it's been confirmed that Bella Ramsey (Game of Thrones) has been chosen to play Ellie in the HBO TV series of The Last of Us.

[emailking]

Originally Posted by StarkRomanoff

You're perfectly fine and an example of what the discussion should be. You're a good.

It's a few choice others that continue to be argumentative and ignorant that would make these TLOU threads a better place if they stopped forcing their negative and ill-informed views on others and moved on with their life. No one wants to talk to someone screaming "DEBATE ME" in the same breath they disvalue the very thing this thread is about.

Yeah I misunderstood your post, sorry.

Originally Posted by Zivouhr

Choices. Which would you choose at the end of Last of Us 1 if you were Joel?

I think it's impossible to know. I hope I would have never been a hunter, lol. I think it was wrong of them to put Ellie under without first explaining to her exactly what was going to happen. (And I also really doubt they couldn't have sampled the fungus sufficiently without killing her.) But killing a few dozen people to save her is probably not justified. Also it would be stupid to actually try to do that. Who would get through the hospital on grounded difficulty on their first try? What if you couldn't see over and around cover? Realistically Joel would have died. So my guess is I would just leave lol.

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

Not exactly Last of Us 2 PS5 news but it's been confirmed that Bella Ramsey (Game of Thrones) has been chosen to play Ellie in the HBO TV series of The Last of Us.

Based on her GOT performance, she certainly has the spunk to play Ellie, haha.

So I guess it sounds like this will be based on Joel & Ellie's journey across the country. I wonder how closely it will stick to the events of the game.

[JayTL]

I know I said I'll leave the thread, but honestly I'm bored and wanted to say a couple more things.

Originally Posted by Zivouhr

Choices. Which would you choose at the end of Last of Us 1 if you were Joel?

OLD SPOILERS:

To save your adopted daughter from death, or to sacrifice her to a gang of thugs who might be trying to find a cure for the plague, and then might offer it to mankind, at a high price, possibly creating a new class system of "essential" vs "Non-essential" people. Or they might not succeed at all and then kill your daughter for nothing?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Joel never wanted her. Never "adopted" her or considered her family in part 1. He was going to leave her in the hospital until he realized she wasn't going to survive and she didn't know. And if she knew that she wasn't going to make it, she probably would have still wanted to go through with it.

Originally Posted by Zivouhr

In my view, the Fireflies were corrupt and not to be trusted, regardless of what my daughter wanted. It wasn't her choice to sacrifice her life to a bunch of thugs because she is too young and inexperienced in life to make that choice for herself, and the fact she has a special trait that makes her immune.

I would spare my daughter and eliminate the Fireflies as Joel did.

Fireflies turned out to not be trusted, correct. But everything else is just your opinion. That was the best option to try and find a cure. Say what you want about the Fireflys, but Abby's dad seemed to be a good guy who knew what he was doing. If Joel went in and explained himself to her dad, there's a chance they could have come up with a better solution.

Originally Posted by emailking

Yeah I misunderstood your post, sorry.



I think it's impossible to know. I hope I would have never been a hunter, lol. I think it was wrong of them to put Ellie under without first explaining to her exactly what was going to happen. (And I also really doubt they couldn't have sampled the fungus sufficiently without killing her.) But killing a few dozen people to save her is probably not justified. Also it would be stupid to actually try to do that. Who would get through the hospital on grounded difficulty on their first try? What if you couldn't see over and around cover? Realistically Joel would have died. So my guess is I would just leave lol.

So I guess it sounds like this will be based on Joel & Ellie's journey across the country. I wonder how closely it will stick to the events of the game.

I agree. Abby could have been related to any Firefly who was killed defending the hospital, and I can still justify her reaction in the sequel.

[Gremal]

Originally Posted by JayTL

I know I said I'll leave the thread, but honestly I'm bored and wanted to say a couple more things.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Joel never wanted her. Never "adopted" her or considered her family in part 1. He was going to leave her in the hospital until he realized she wasn't going to survive and she didn't know. And if she knew that she wasn't going to make it, she probably would have still wanted to go through with it.

There was an increasingly strong bond that developed between Joel and Ellie over the course of TLOU. They saved each other's lives, and they considered each other family. At first, Joel was reluctant to get involved in protecting Ellie or take her anywhere because it reminded him of the death of his own daughter. By the end of TLOU, it should have been obvious to you that Ellie had repaired the hole in Joel's life. Ellie had also lost people and needed a father figure. This was part of the brilliance of TLOU.

Fireflies turned out to not be trusted, correct. But everything else is just your opinion. That was the best option to try and find a cure. Say what you want about the Fireflys, but Abby's dad seemed to be a good guy who knew what he was doing. If Joel went in and explained himself to her dad, there's a chance they could have come up with a better solution.

I think the materials (notes and voice recordings) that Joel found in the hospital make it pretty clear that Abby's dad and the other doctors looking for a cure were a bunch of desparate quacks who didn't know what they were doing.

As someone with a 30 year career in scientific instrumentation, medical devices and pharma, it was obvious to me that even if the science was sound behind the theory of killing Ellie to harvest her cells (a big "if" but I can suspend disbelief for the sake of playing a game), it requires a robust infrastructure and a baseline level of reliance on such things as R&D (clinical trials), manufacturing, distribution, refrigeration, functioning roads, functioning hospitals, government, and herd immunity to use a vaccine properly.

Let's pretend Abby's dad was trustworthy and knew what he was doing (he didn't, but let's pretend), and he succeeded in creating a prototype vaccine. How is he going to test it on a statistically significant sample of animals and humans to determine safety and efficacy? Impossible, but let's ignore this as well and say he creates a safe and effective vaccine. How is he going to get it manufactured in sufficient quantities? Given the world of TLOU, again, impossible. Let's ignore this too and say he mass produces the vaccine. How is he going to refrigerate it, broadcast word of this, get buy-in from survivors and distribute it to all living people in a way that "saves the world"? Absolutely impossible and ridiculous.

Given the state of society in TLOU, there is no conceivable way for a vaccine to work out even if you sacrifice Ellie. No reliable roads, vehicles, people, government, etc. etc. Meaning there was no logical reason to murder Ellie, and Joel was justified in taking out every member of the Fireflies he did who were acting in support of murdering Ellie. They were a corrupt organization using their power for evil.

I agree. Abby could have been related to any Firefly who was killed defending the hospital, and I can still justify her reaction in the sequel.

I disagree. Pretty much everyone in the world of TLOU lost family members and had to accept this in their own ways and try to go on. Given the world of TLOU, it's difficult to justify how Abby would take this so personally that she goes on a mission for revenge against Joel who was clearly motivated to save a young lady special in several noteworthy ways. It was a weak premise from the start. Abby's backstory and real-time story did not make it any easier to relate to her or find her sympathetic.

[Leonidas King]

Ohh geez. Thought the thread bump was an actual announcement already. Nothing to see here.

[Gamma_Winstead]

Originally Posted by JayTL

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Joel never wanted her. Never "adopted" her or considered her family in part 1. He was going to leave her in the hospital until he realized she wasn't going to survive and she didn't know.

Dude, what? Did we play different games? I have no idea how you can experience that story and not think Joel considered Ellie his new daughter. Like, did you not pay attention to anything? I can't even say skipping the cutscenes would suffice as there's plenty of dialogue in-game during exploration that completely disagrees with you. This is just one of the most off base and wrong readings of the original game I've ever read. I truly don't know how you can experience Last of Us 1 in its entirety and still think Joel never cared for Ellie or considered her family.

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by Leonidas King

Ohh geez. Thought the thread bump was an actual announcement already. Nothing to see here.

Same here and that's all I'm interested in hearing about from this thread. Waiting for a 60fps patch to play this game and hoping it hits soon.

[JayTL]

Originally Posted by Gamma_Winstead

Dude, what? Did we play different games? I have no idea how you can experience that story and not think Joel considered Ellie his new daughter. Like, did you not pay attention to anything? I can't even say skipping the cutscenes would suffice as there's plenty of dialogue in-game during exploration that completely disagrees with you. This is just one of the most off base and wrong readings of the original game I've ever read. I truly don't know how you can experience Last of Us 1 in its entirety and still think Joel never cared for Ellie or considered her family.

"CoRrEcT Me iF i'M WrONg"

He definitely wanted nothing to do with Ellie as a person until he comes to from his injury at the earliest. Before then she was just a job to complete to help the resistance

[DragonOfTheBlackPool]

Originally Posted by JayTL

"CoRrEcT Me iF i'M WrONg"

He definitely wanted nothing to do with Ellie as a person until he comes to from his injury at the earliest. Before then she was just a job to complete to help the resistance

Wrong. The turning point in their relationship came when Joel decided to take her the rest of the way himself, instead of asking Tommy to do it, which was his initial plan when they arrived at the dam. The whole dialogue between Joel and Ellie at the house (after she takes the horse and disappears) eludes to this. This happens much earlier in the game, before Joel’s injury.

[Gremal]

Originally Posted by JayTL

"CoRrEcT Me iF i'M WrONg"

He definitely wanted nothing to do with Ellie as a person until he comes to from his injury at the earliest. Before then she was just a job to complete to help the resistance

Wha? No. You need to play game 1 again, like yesterday. Joel didn't give a crap about the Fireflies and said so from the beginning. He was a smuggler. In terms of the beginning of the mission, he was helping Ellie for Maureen and continued to do so to honor Maureen's dying wish. He only cares about people he knows. As he gets to know Ellie more, he cares more. Not coincidentally, this is how normal people develop feelings. Abby is not normal. She abandons people she knows for people she doesn't know. Considers herself judge, jury and executioner even though she does worse than the people she's judging.

Originally Posted by Todd Smith

Same here and that's all I'm interested in hearing about from this thread. Waiting for a 60fps patch to play this game and hoping it hits soon.

The 4K/HDR bump alone from PS5 is worth revisiting the game for graphics/gameplay purposes. No need to wait.

Originally Posted by Leonidas King

Ohh geez. Thought the thread bump was an actual announcement already. Nothing to see here.

Maybe you mistook this discussion forum for some official Naughty Dog or Sony announcement site?

[JayTL]

Originally Posted by DragonOfTheBlackPool

Wrong. The turning point in their relationship came when Joel decided to take her the rest of the way himself, instead of asking Tommy to do it, which was his initial plan when they arrived at the dam. The whole dialogue between Joel and Ellie at the house (after she takes the horse and disappears) eludes to this. This happens much earlier in the game, before Joel’s injury.

I got the timeline wrong then. I thought Tommy's happens much later in the game. (Like towards the end) That's on me. The rest of my points still stand though lol


When someone on my ignore list quotes me though lol:

[Gremal]

Originally Posted by JayTL

I got the timeline wrong then. I thought Tommy's happens much later in the game. (Like towards the end) That's on me. The rest of my points still stand though lol

When someone on my ignore list quotes me though lol:

No, the rest of your points don't stand up either. Nice try, though.

[Vashetti]

Originally Posted by Gremal

The 4K/HDR bump alone from PS5 is worth revisiting the game for graphics/gameplay purposes. No need to wait.

The PS5 doesn't bump the game in any way, it's 1440p as it was on PS4 Pro.

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by Gremal

Wha? No. You need to play game 1 again, like yesterday. Joel didn't give a crap about the Fireflies and said so from the beginning. He was a smuggler. In terms of the beginning of the mission, he was helping Ellie for Maureen and continued to do so to honor Maureen's dying wish. He only cares about people he knows. As he gets to know Ellie more, he cares more. Not coincidentally, this is how normal people develop feelings. Abby is not normal. She abandons people she knows for people she doesn't know. Considers herself judge, jury and executioner even though she does worse than the people she's judging.



The 4K/HDR bump alone from PS5 is worth revisiting the game for graphics/gameplay purposes. No need to wait.



Maybe you mistook this discussion forum for some official Naughty Dog or Sony announcement site?

I'm waiting on 60fps which is a MUCH bigger upgrade vs 4k or HDR IMO. I have plenty of games to keep me busy until then. Besides, didnt the game already have HDR on the pro? Doesn't sound like the PS5 is native 4k either from the post above. Those two points are moot though as 60fps is what I'm really interested in.