Are preamps needed anymore?

[Pondosinatra]

I just hooked up a Marantz AV9000 I bought for cheap off of eBay to my Laserdisc and Blu-Ray player. It's hooked up to an old Yamaha receiver that supports DTS and not much else.

Frankly I found the sound quality to be dramatically improved.

That said these preamp and receivers are a decade old. So my question is now that even the cheapest receivers come with XM, DTS, TrueHD, THX certification etc. etc. is there really a need anymore for preamps???

[primaz]

All in one reciever/surround processor/amplifiers are great entry level systems where everything is all built together to save money. Better quality sound can be had when you enter the world of separate amplifiers, separate surround processors with no power, and separate tuners and other source devices.

Separates are generally a lot more expensive but there are some great brands like Outlaw Audio, Emotiva, and others that design, manufacture and sell direct which make the world of higher end separates actually more affordable than you might imagined; especially if you shop online and do your research.

[Trix]

Originally Posted by primaz

All in one reciever/surround processor/amplifiers are great entry level systems where everything is all built together to save money. Better quality sound can be had when you enter the world of separate amplifiers, separate surround processors with no power, and separate tuners and other source devices.

Separates are generally a lot more expensive but there are some great brands like Outlaw Audio, Emotiva, and others that design, manufacture and sell direct which make the world of higher end separates actually more affordable than you might imagined; especially if you shop online and do your research.

I think what Pondosinatra was getting at, is that it is possible to use a higher-end AVR as a pre-amp, thus possibly eliminating the need for true stand-alone pre-amps, and just using the pre-outs on the AVR to go to seperate amplifiers.

I see the argument, but I would like to point out my short list of reasons that I believe pre-amps will always have one hand up on the best AVR's.

1) You typically need to get to the flagship level of AVR's to find balanced-pre-outs, whereas any respectable pre-amp has them. Balanced pre-out become crucial when running multiple power amps, as they help avoid any ground loops between audio equipment.
2) When using an AVR as a pre-amp, you will typically be using that AVR's digital-analog converters (DAC's), unless you use strictly analog connection for all your components. Since this is not normally the case, DAC's become crucial in the sound process, and dedicated pre-amps, again, will typically have better DAC's than similarly priced AVR's.
3) Heat output may not always be a factor, but it certainly can be. Certain AVR are meant to run hot, or run hot even when just processing. Dedicated pre-amps, on the other hand, can usually accomplish the same processing with less heat output. This isn't a huge issue, but it can definitly play a part in equipment longevity.

I'm sure I left out dozens of other responses, but, this is what immediately came to mind.

[Gremal]

My experience with audio gear follows these two general rules:
1. Simpler is better.
2. You get what you pay for.

While I love the idea of an integrated amp that houses preamp and power amp components in a single chassis, once you start adding processing, tuner and other functions, it becomes jack of all trades, master of none. I have never heard an HT receiver that has the openness and detail of high end amps and preamps. The question whether preamps are needed is up to each individual.

[Pondosinatra]

Hmmm.

I understand the heat density argument for having separate devices, I also understand the 'jack of all trades master of none' sentiment.

That said, when I upgrade my main HT system I'll likely get a pretty high end receiver. I'll use Pioneer as an example as that's what most of my equipment is - say I was to get an Elite SC-07 receiver.

Would it still make sense to get a dedicated preamp or would I just be wasting my money?

[Trix]

Originally Posted by Pondosinatra

Hmmm.

I understand the heat density argument for having separate devices, I also understand the 'jack of all trades master of none' sentiment.

That said, when I upgrade my main HT system I'll likely get a pretty high end receiver. I'll use Pioneer as an example as that's what most of my equipment is - say I was to get an Elite SC-07 receiver.

Would it still make sense to get a dedicated preamp or would I just be wasting my money?

The SC-07 runs for about 2,000$. If you're looking at using it as a receiver to accept all your sources, and power up to 7 speakers with 8 ohm impedance, it will do the trick very well. If you're looking at using it as a preamp, it lacks the balanced outputs that would make most other pre-amps a better value. It does, however, have very respectable DAC's if I remember correctly.

So, if it's meant as an AVR, then yes, it would do the trick. As a pre-amp, I would consider standalones once you get to this price point.