Led Backlighting

[bubble blu]

Have read about the LED backlighting in hdtvs and the benefits look very good and worth splashing out on them! Being fairly expensive not many people have them and wanted to hear from them about the good and bad? Am saving for the new Toshiba sv series tv 46" when it comes out in August! Any infomation would be great!

[gtmorgan23]

well they generally use about 40% less power than regular led's
Another big thing is that they are suppose to provide black levels closer to that of a plasma because of the ability to turn off some of the led's

[Sonny]

I saw that Toshiba has 47" 240Hz LED-LCD at best buy for $1,700-$1,800. Not the PQ of a Sony or Sammy I imagine, but probably pretty nice.

[hnajarro]

Originally Posted by bubble blu

Have read about the LED backlighting in hdtvs and the benefits look very good and worth splashing out on them! Being fairly expensive not many people have them and wanted to hear from them about the good and bad? Am saving for the new Toshiba sv series tv 46" when it comes out in August! Any infomation would be great!

Black Levels reach 100%. LED technology is a different ballgame. It's a different world. It's a different movie when watching your favorite Blu-Rays. The image is so clear it feels like your the director behind the camera lens. The image becomes very addicting.

[bruss01]

I was very intrigued by this concept when I first heard of it. Then the engineer side of me starts asking questions like what happens when some of the led's don't work right, either stuck on or stuck off? How hard is it to replace the led grid? Can that even be done? I know that CCFL tubes can get weak or burn out over time, but I believe they can be replaced. That's a proven technology. I do support the march of progress, but I don't always prefer to be point man on that squad. I hope it turns out to be the best thing in TV since the invention of the color lcd screen. But on a major investment, I just preferred to hang back one generation and let others try it out first. So far, it's a decision I've been more than happy with.

[Steelmaker]

What's cracking me up is that sales associates in the box stores seem to have been conditioned to call these TV's "LED TV's" and completely disassociate them from LCD technology. Aren't these TV's still technically LCD's with LED backlighting? They're trying to insenuate that they are a completely new technology.

[Rblu-Dblu]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

What's cracking me up is that sales associates in the box stores seem to have been conditioned to call these TV's "LED TV's" and completely disassociate them from LCD technology. Aren't these TV's still technically LCD's with LED backlighting? They're trying to insenuate that they are a completely new technology.

not to mention a salesman at a store I will not mention proceeded to tell me the entire screen was led lit. Which I knew wasn't true. Needless to say I would never purchase anything from this person.

[Tru2theBlu]

I read a couple of reviews of from people who own the Samsung 950 series and the new Samsung 8000 series, and they said the PQ was better on the 950.

[Bluubyu]

My A950 amazes me every time I watch it, as well my friends freak out because it is so lifelike and 3D they can barely stand it.

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by Tru2theBlu

I read a couple of reviews of from people who own the Samsung 950 series and the new Samsung 8000 series, and they said the PQ was better on the 950.

How so? I mean did they specifically say why?

[maygit]

Uhh, another one of these. Sorry, I get irritated being a salesman myself and constantly needing to debunk the mysteries behind the LED LCD's. Then i come on different forums and feel i need to do the same thing...

"LED TV's" are still just LCD's. The backlighting used is different, it's LED based as apposed to CCFL based. Now there are 2 different kinds of LED LCD's you'll find on the market: Edge-Lit and Local Dimming. The Edge-lit LCD's are the ones you see around the stores like the Samsung 6000, 7000, and 8000. Overall, it's a large bump up in price for comparable specs in a CCFL version. Take the Samsung b650 series vs the Samsung 7000 series. Pretty comparable specifications and nearly the EXACT SAME PQ if you've seen them side by side. Difference in price for the 46" models? $800. Sure the LED tv's are thinner and consumer 40% less energy BUT thickness is really for bragging rights and it will take nearly 30-35 years for you to begin gaining money by saving energy for that cost difference. If it's worth it to you, then go for it, your money. Then after these "edge-lit" models you have the local dimming LED LCD's which actually are worth the price differences. Instead of having LED's on the outside of the panel(EDGE-LIT) which can lead to uneven backlighting, they have LED's all throughout the entire picture. This lets small areas to dim allowing the tv to achieve much higher contrast ratios, even comparable to the best plasmas on the market. These models would be like the Samsung 950 series and the Sony XBR8, probably why guys friend above stated that he liked the 950 vs the 8000, he was right! So it's pretty much like this: Local Dimming LEDS>High-End CCFL LCD's>Local Dimming LCD's

That's somewhat of a brief summary between the types because I don't feel like going full out right now explaining but if anyone would like to argue my statement, i'll be happy to rebuttal tomorrow.

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by maygit

Uhh, another one of these. Sorry, I get irritated being a salesman myself and constantly needing to debunk the mysteries behind the LED LCD's. Then i come on different forums and feel i need to do the same thing...

"LED TV's" are still just LCD's. The backlighting used is different, it's LED based as apposed to CCFL based. Now there are 2 different kinds of LED LCD's you'll find on the market: Edge-Lit and Local Dimming. The Edge-lit LCD's are the ones you see around the stores like the Samsung 6000, 7000, and 8000. Overall, it's a large bump up in price for comparable specs in a CCFL version. Take the Samsung b650 series vs the Samsung 7000 series. Pretty comparable specifications and nearly the EXACT SAME PQ if you've seen them side by side. Difference in price for the 46" models? $800. Sure the LED tv's are thinner and consumer 40% less energy BUT thickness is really for bragging rights and it will take nearly 30-35 years for you to begin gaining money by saving energy for that cost difference. If it's worth it to you, then go for it, your money. Then after these "edge-lit" models you have the local dimming LED LCD's which actually are worth the price differences. Instead of having LED's on the outside of the panel(EDGE-LIT) which can lead to uneven backlighting, they have LED's all throughout the entire picture. This lets small areas to dim allowing the tv to achieve much higher contrast ratios, even comparable to the best plasmas on the market. These models would be like the Samsung 950 series and the Sony XBR8, probably why guys friend above stated that he liked the 950 vs the 8000, he was right! So it's pretty much like this: Local Dimming LEDS>High-End CCFL LCD's>Local Dimming LCD's

That's somewhat of a brief summary between the types because I don't feel like going full out right now explaining but if anyone would like to argue my statement, i'll be happy to rebuttal tomorrow.

Wait, so let me get this straight (Samsung really confuses things with all of their different model #'s.) So you're saying the 950 is a true local dimming LED model and the 8000 model is only edge lit? Even though the 8000 is a newer model? If that's the case, this makes ZERO sense to me. Why would Samsung release a newer model with inferior tech? From what I've seen regarding price between these 2 sets, they're about the same. Good lord is it really THAT important to people that these TV's be 1" thick as opposed to being 3-4" thick? Forget it, I'll take thicker with better PQ any day over thinner.

[wafi]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

Wait, so let me get this straight (Samsung really confuses things with all of their different model #'s.) So you're saying the 950 is a true local dimming LED model and the 8000 model is only edge lit? Even though the 8000 is a newer model? If that's the case, this makes ZERO sense to me. Why would Samsung release a newer model with inferior tech? From what I've seen regarding price between these 2 sets, they're about the same. Good lord is it really THAT important to people that these TV's be 1" thick as opposed to being 3-4" thick? Forget it, I'll take thicker with better PQ any day over thinner.

Sadly that's whats catching the consumer's eyes!

[mmunro2003]

Originally Posted by maygit

Uhh, another one of these. Sorry, I get irritated being a salesman myself and constantly needing to debunk the mysteries behind the LED LCD's. Then i come on different forums and feel i need to do the same thing...

"LED TV's" are still just LCD's. The backlighting used is different, it's LED based as apposed to CCFL based. Now there are 2 different kinds of LED LCD's you'll find on the market: Edge-Lit and Local Dimming. The Edge-lit LCD's are the ones you see around the stores like the Samsung 6000, 7000, and 8000. Overall, it's a large bump up in price for comparable specs in a CCFL version. Take the Samsung b650 series vs the Samsung 7000 series. Pretty comparable specifications and nearly the EXACT SAME PQ if you've seen them side by side. Difference in price for the 46" models? $800. Sure the LED tv's are thinner and consumer 40% less energy BUT thickness is really for bragging rights and it will take nearly 30-35 years for you to begin gaining money by saving energy for that cost difference. If it's worth it to you, then go for it, your money. Then after these "edge-lit" models you have the local dimming LED LCD's which actually are worth the price differences. Instead of having LED's on the outside of the panel(EDGE-LIT) which can lead to uneven backlighting, they have LED's all throughout the entire picture. This lets small areas to dim allowing the tv to achieve much higher contrast ratios, even comparable to the best plasmas on the market. These models would be like the Samsung 950 series and the Sony XBR8, probably why guys friend above stated that he liked the 950 vs the 8000, he was right! So it's pretty much like this: Local Dimming LEDS>High-End CCFL LCD's>Local Dimming LCD's

That's somewhat of a brief summary between the types because I don't feel like going full out right now explaining but if anyone would like to argue my statement, i'll be happy to rebuttal tomorrow.

Best explanation of LED LCD's I have ever heard. +1

[Steelmaker]

Hmmm, I hear that the new Samsung 9000 series will be true led backlit like the 950's. However it will have a separate component box to plug cables into which will send a wireless signal to the TV. I suppose this is how they are going to achieve true LED backlighting and still maintain the 1.5" thickness that their current models have. Plus I'm guessing this model will have 240hz motion where the 950's have 120hz (though I've read it's not much of a difference).

Hopefully when this model comes out, the 950's will drop in price!

[g217814]

I have a Samsung 950 and think its the best LCD TV out there. I researched the heck out of the newer TV's and this one just looked the best. The Plasma pushers on this site will tell you that LCD's can't come close to the black levels of a Plasma....I suspect they have never seen a properly tweaked LCD LED TV before. This TV has the deepest blacks I've ever seen even compared to the Pioneers Kuro's plus there is no chance of burn-in. The bottom line is choose whatever looks best to you.

[Rblu-Dblu]

Originally Posted by g217814

I have a Samsung 950 and think its the best LCD TV out there. I researched the heck out of the newer TV's and this one just looked the best. The Plasma pushers on this site will tell you that LCD's can't come close to the black levels of a Plasma....I suspect they have never seen a properly tweaked LCD LED TV before. This TV has the deepest blacks I've ever seen even compared to the Pioneers Kuro's plus there is no chance of burn-in. The bottom line is choose whatever looks best to you.

Burn-in is a thing of the past. Some of the Samsung LCD"s do look amazing but I have only seen them on a showroom floor. I have yet to see one in a natural environment thats been properly calibrated.

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by g217814

I have a Samsung 950 and think its the best LCD TV out there. I researched the heck out of the newer TV's and this one just looked the best. The Plasma pushers on this site will tell you that LCD's can't come close to the black levels of a Plasma....I suspect they have never seen a properly tweaked LCD LED TV before. This TV has the deepest blacks I've ever seen even compared to the Pioneers Kuro's plus there is no chance of burn-in. The bottom line is choose whatever looks best to you.

How bad is the off angle viewing for this set? Out of every review I have read, this seems to be the one knock against it (well, this and some slight blooming). I already have a DLP so I'm used to this drawback already but really, is it THAT bad? Like, let's say I have my couch centered with the tv and 3 people are sitting, watching the tv. The 2 people on the ends aren't going to see a huge degradation in picture are they? With my dlp, the only way the picture seems to degrade is if I stand at the far corners of the room.

[g217814]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

How bad is the off angle viewing for this set? Out of every review I have read, this seems to be the one knock against it (well, this and some slight blooming). I already have a DLP so I'm used to this drawback already but really, is it THAT bad? Like, let's say I have my couch centered with the tv and 3 people are sitting, watching the tv. The 2 people on the ends aren't going to see a huge degradation in picture are they? With my dlp, the only way the picture seems to degrade is if I stand at the far corners of the room.

The off angle viewing is slightly worse than my 46" 630 series and that is where you will start to the blacks become grey. As far as sitting three peole in front of it side by side you won't see any difference. I don't have any problems with my theater setup, you can check out my photos to see that its a similar config to what you asking about only a bit wider.

[skygreenleopard]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

Wait, so let me get this straight (Samsung really confuses things with all of their different model #'s.) So you're saying the 950 is a true local dimming LED model and the 8000 model is only edge lit? Even though the 8000 is a newer model? If that's the case, this makes ZERO sense to me. Why would Samsung release a newer model with inferior tech? From what I've seen regarding price between these 2 sets, they're about the same. Good lord is it really THAT important to people that these TV's be 1" thick as opposed to being 3-4" thick? Forget it, I'll take thicker with better PQ any day over thinner.

Exactly - you and the guy above said it. Who cares when your TV is only 1" thin? If only ONE thing in your entertainment center is thicker than 1" (your receiver, speakers, BD/DVD player, your video game system, center speaker, or even your entertainment center), then you just wasted your money. Unless you're using NO components and the TV's built-in speakers and have a HUGE need to save every inch of space - say, in your closet and you only watch broadcast TV, or you have some sort of sliding door cover for it - then it's a dumb selling point. I don't know why people still push "thinness" after the switch to flat panels. Hell, 70" Mitsubishi DLPs are still thinner than my old CRT Sony Wega...