More uninformed people spewing crap - Page 2 - Blu-ray Forum

theknub · 09-22-2006, 04:59 PM

Quote:

If a year from now HD-DVD players are still 50%(read $500) cheaper with more movies available, possibly at a cheaper price...

not even right there. the new xa2 is priced at $1,000. so now hd-dvd is in the same camp, cost wise, as blu-ray with minimal ce and studio support.

Monkey · 09-22-2006, 05:02 PM

this CobaltBlue is a clown. Why hasn't he been banned yet

All he is doing is barfing up false information and Fud.

phranctoast · 09-22-2006, 05:12 PM

people get to have opinions.

They also get to have them rebutted like jtk and brian did..big time..

lol. id ask if you guys have work at BB, but I kinda have a slow day too so I cant say shit.

zombie · 09-22-2006, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monkey

this CobaltBlue is a clown. Why hasn't he been banned yet

All he is doing is barfing up false information and Fud.

Oh believe me I've taken note of it. I've already sent him a PM on the matter.

Psiweaver · 09-22-2006, 05:16 PM

The funny thing is that Sony devoloped VHS then sold it to JVC so technicly you could say they are responsible for VHS which would be a huge victory in their favor. I can't stand sony mainly because like bose they overcharge for a product based on their marketing. The one thing about sony and bose is that they have very good marketing departments.

If you think Halo 3 is really going to be that amazing then feel free to go out and buy an xbox 360 because thats about the only game that you'll be playing on that system. An add on drive isn't going to sell in numbers anywhere near the PS3, yes not everyone wants one but just about every gamer i know wants one and add on the fact that the ps2 is the best selling console in history and I think the ps3 just might be a winner.

AV_Integrated · 09-22-2006, 05:20 PM

Sony has a ton of innovations and products that they have brought to market that are phenomenal and truly cutting edge, as well as a long list of failure items. They also have a long list that sits somewhere in the middle that people insist upon putting in one category or another.

Successes for Sony:
Walkman - This was THE product for carrying your own music around in. Not a cheap FM radio thing, but a way to take your own tunes anywhere you wanted.

CD - Which they developed with Philips. A joint venture doesn't leave the Sony name off this product's development and push.

Playstation - The Sega/Nintendo juggernaut of home gaming seemed locked up for many years to come when PS1 came along and rocked the world for those companies. Sega who? Is what our kids will say, though Nintendo has toughed things out and rocked on with their Gameboy series.

PSP - While no Gameboy, it is a long, long way from a flop of a product. Excellent color and reviews for gaming... who cares about the movie aspect? This thing is fun to play and almost everyone who owns one, loves it!

SXRD - Sony received 'product of the year' honors for their 60" SXRD model from Home Theater Magazine (or was it S&V?). After years of incredible CRT displays, Sony comes out on top again with a significantly larger model that just looks awesome. When LCoS had a questionable future, Sony has really turned it into a viable format. Oh, and let's not forget their front projectors with the Qualia, Ruby, and now Pearl 1080p models. They are on 3rd generation front projection and now at $5,000 while the competition is just getting warmed up.

While it is fair to say that Sony has had products that have not done well, it is not fair to pretend that they haven't had stellar successes with products that they have introduced either. They continue to make one of the only 400 disc DVD changers, they are sticking with LCD flat panels and avoiding DLP rear projection - with much success!

Yet, in the end - Sony does not have a single Blu-ray player out on the market yet using BDA approved format guidelines. Their recorder from 2003 was nothing like what is coming out now. The first Blu-ray players are from Samsung and the worlds largest CE manufacturer: Panasonic. We may even get the Pioneer before the first Sony player shows up.

This is critical because not one product that Sony has helped to develop that has failed has had so much support behind it that I am aware of. Not one or two companies making hardware and software - but dozens! The BDA is taking Sony's product and are running with it.

HD-DVD, near as I can tell, is the DiVX of the HD formats. The Beta. Unlike Beta though, Blu-ray was announced and developed first. Toshiba turned its back on the format, and some naive people choose to blame Sony for their decision. This would be a single unified format if Toshiba hadn't been the hold out company.

zombie · 09-22-2006, 05:21 PM

I think we can all agree that Sony has made some bonehead decisions as a company but Blu-ray is far more than just Sony. Please like to forget that fact. Since Sony owns Columbia Pictures they've had a studio in their corner from the getgo, something HD DVD does not have the luxury of. That said, Fox, Disney, Panasonic, Pioneer, etc - those are huge names in the industry who wouldn't be exclusively supporting Blu-ray if they thought it would fail.

BTBuck1 · 09-22-2006, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psiweaver

If you think Halo 3 is really going to be that amazing then feel free to go out and buy an xbox 360 because thats about the only game that you'll be playing on that system. An add on drive isn't going to sell in numbers anywhere near the PS3, yes not everyone wants one but just about every gamer i know wants one and add on the fact that the ps2 is the best selling console in history and I think the ps3 just might be a winner.

My xbox360 is most likely going to be singing the elvis song "Return to Sender" soon. I'm pretty much tired of having a system that has no reason to own anymore. Yeah it was cool for a while, xboxlive arcade etc. But it just doesn't have any games that scream "gotta have it" anymore. I may buy COD3 and probably the new NFS carbon. But those are also PS3 titles...so just like HDDVD...it leaves me going "Whats the point?"

CobaltBlue · 09-22-2006, 06:15 PM

"New line Cinema supports both formats."

Cool, I was under the impression from the article at the start of this topic that New Line was solely HD. Noone seemed to argue that point. LOTR will be a great candidate to showcase Blu-ray.
I also thought TV series would have been a great thing to lead off with marketing-wise. West Wing Season 6, on one disc, etc.

"Look at who's in the BDA...IT"S NOT JUST SONY!"

Didn't the mod just reply with "You can call BD a Sony product..."
Didn't I say Sony(and company).

"Many years from now."

Now or years from now, price and selection are what matters. Do you remember a game system called Neo-Geo. Ahead of its time, huge price tag for the system and the games. Everyone passed in favor of Nintendo. That's all I'm saying.

"They won't be"

You're either in charge of Sony's marketing or your crystal ball is better than mine. That's why I said "If".

"won't happen. As long as HD-DVD is just Toshiba, Microsoft..."

"Just Microsoft", now that's hubris. And with assurances like "Won't happen" from JTK on the Blu-ray forum, I better run and plunk down my $1000 at best buy right now. Maybe I like a lot of films by Universal or whoever is HD exclusive... why would I drop $1000 knowing I very likely won't get 100% of the films released. I'd say, unless budget is no object, it's dumb not to wait a while longer. Both camps deserve criticism for being too greedy to do right by their customers.

"How so"

Again, perhaps in error I was going with the article cited at the beginning of the topic. It has been common knowledge and common sense though that they are going to have most of the same issues of the 360 launch coupled with using blu-ray rather than readily available dvd.

"True. It will be at least 1-2 years... The Xbox360's present hardware will most certainly hit a brick wall long before the PS3's hardware."

Like I said before it won't matter. Argue if you want, but the PS2 has been obsolete for years but 99% of xbox games by third parties were still straight ports. That raises another valid point, are movie studios going to bother to make different versions if forced to publish on 2 formats to reach all consumers? Not likely.

"Ah yes. I've seen this spin on AVS countless times... BD50 titles"

I'm confused... so the 25 gb blu-ray movies produced so far have been inferior in some way then? At 50 gb we see the real potential? Playing Devil's Advocate here... I agree that on epics like LOTR, more space is a good thing. But that is what, maybe .5% of movies produced?

"Very short term advantage. See above. Your argument is pretty much already gone and done with."

No, my argument will be done with when one format has 100% of releases like its competitor, DVD. Until then you're paying too much money for limited reward which may be limited by the other medium anyway if studios release one version for both (likely).

"Higher standard my ass. Those clunky Toshiba HD-DVD players... "

I was referring to "On the other hand, Dolby Digital Plus support is mandatory for standalone HD DVD players at a maximum of 3 Mbit/s, while only optional for BD players and capped at 1.7 Mbit/s."

"I doubt it. I think you're here as an HD-DVD fan "

Right. Because I hate Sony. As I type on my Vaio x505 laptop(beautiful but overpriced). As a gamer, if they've got good games I'll have a PS3 eventually, once the hype and prices die down. In the meantime I've got a 360 that works great with a Media Center PC. So HD-DVD as a 360 add-on will likely make it into my house before Blu-Ray. But if it dies as a format in a couple of years, I won't be out $1000 either.

"I think you need to look at the specs on HD DVD ..."

The wikipedia entry didn't go into detail that the triple layer wasn't current spec. Now I know. A 20 gb difference will hopefully help establish blu-ray as the choice to go with for 100% of the studios. Once adopted universally, I'm there dude. If not, I'd go with VHS over laserdisc every time (and die a little inside)

"The myth that 30 GB ... 4+ hour epic "

Here's the thing, how many 4+ hour epics do you own? Name your top 100 4+ hour epics... ok make it 50. Still can't? I'm not saying I would rather have to put a second disc in, but to get a universal hi-def medium, if that's the only hitch, I can make that concession on less than .5% of my movies. Hopefully I won't have to. The upside is we're already used to having to do that, and we need an intermission to pee anyway.

"Betamax, a technilogically superior"
"I don't knock Sony for trying new things"

Didn't I preface the comment with "I'm not crticizing technical capabilities, merely implementation..."

Sony has a crappy track record on developing its innovations, period. Noone typically argues that any more than they'd argue that Xerox has historically had the same problem. Noone thanks them for windows either, because of that exact problem. But do you really want to say beta was anything but egg on the company's face. Come on. "They use it in broadcast..." yeah that's comparable to having a unit in every home, rv, and camcorder. I'm complimentary about the company's successes and honest about the shortcomings. Coming up with SACD for example, yay! Lackluster support of SACD due to fears of its lack of encryption was as you say, weak.

"add on's are notoriously failures"

Very true, but if they end up selling it on the cheap, the public will have a more budget friendly path to Hi-def in the already established 360. I don't even know that MS is gearing to develop games for the drive as it would limit who could play. And as already stated on this forum elsewhere, there's no saying they couldn't eventually have a blu-ray drive as well. It will already be able to link to one on your media center pc, so why not?

I'm not on here to be a cheerleader for Sony. I'm here to discuss and learn about Blu-ray AND its alternatives to inform myself as a consumer. Now that I'm enlightened to current spec limitations for HD-dvd, I agree blu-ray WOULD be a better solution when factoring in really long movies or preferably whole seasons of West Wing on 1 disc. If it doesn't garner 100% of the market, it's not going to matter. Notice I managed to do so without equating what you have to say with BS or being rude. If you make a valid point about something I was ignorant of, I'll go with your educated opinion. That's why I'm here. Should I be apologizing that I did something other than wave pom-poms for Sony(and company)? You guys seem to do enough of that for the both of us.

BTBuck1 · 09-22-2006, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CobaltBlue

"The myth that 30 GB ... 4+ hour epic "

Here's the thing, how many 4+ hour epics do you own? Name your top 100 4+ hour epics... ok make it 50. Still can't?

Dude, don't get me started on the 4 & 6 hour porn compilations!

( a joke btw)

Quote:

I'm not on here to be a cheerleader for Sony. I'm here to discuss and learn about Blu-ray AND its alternatives to inform myself as a consumer. Now that I'm enlightened to current spec limitations for HD-dvd, I agree blu-ray WOULD be a better solution when factoring in really long movies or preferably whole seasons of West Wing on 1 disc. If it doesn't garner 100% of the market, it's not going to matter. Notice I managed to do so without equating what you have to say with BS or being rude. If you make a valid point about something I was ignorant of, I'll go with your educated opinion. That's why I'm here. Should I be apologizing that I did something other than wave pom-poms for Sony(and company)? You guys seem to do enough of that for the both of us.

I think your initial attitude was very anti Sony & anti Blu Disc armed with little to no info to back your cause. If you had took the time to look around here you'd find about the most level headed non biased forum (despite the name) of any forum online. You came in and posted up stuff like you where clueing us into something and now admit to not knowing all the facts before you began spewing off non sense? Now that you got set straight on your fud, all the sudden your a vicitim of unjust treatment here? If you go on any forum online and start spewing off stuff as fact that isn't true you'll get the same result.
regardless, I respect your honesty in comming out and admitting that you didn't know ALL the facts and are set on the right path now, But I think you need to look more objectively before posting your opinion and trying to backdoor it in as "Fact"

Thanks,
and welcome to the bluray forums!

phranctoast · 09-22-2006, 06:46 PM

cobalt.

you should def use the quote feature. its just alot more eye pleasing.

Quote:

Cool, I was under the impression from the article at the start of this topic that New Line was solely HD. Noone seemed to argue that point. LOTR will be a great candidate to showcase Blu-ray.
I also thought TV series would have been a great thing to lead off with marketing-wise. West Wing Season 6, on one disc, etc.

Yeah. Warner owns New lIne as far as I Know.

I like the idea of the whole tv series on one disc. the only prob is i find myself watching the HD channels now. So therefore the tv shows are in HD too. This would be a GREAT idea for shows were it just didnt matter anyway like Simpons, Fam Guy or any other cartoon were they dont animate widescreen and the clarity isnt inpreoved from dvd to HD formats.

JTK · 09-22-2006, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phranctoast

cobalt.

you should def use the quote feature. its just alot more eye pleasing.

Yeah. Warner owns New lIne as far as I Know.

I like the idea of the whole tv series on one disc. the only prob is i find myself watching the HD channels now. So therefore the tv shows are in HD too. This would be a GREAT idea for shows were it just didnt matter anyway like Simpons, Fam Guy or any other cartoon were they dont animate widescreen and the clarity isnt inpreoved from dvd to HD formats.

Imagine an entire season of Lost or 24 in glorious full HD on ONE disc.

I want it!

Psiweaver · 09-22-2006, 07:11 PM

yeah i'd be all over that especially lost the oclors are so rich and lush.

Deciazulado · 09-22-2006, 07:13 PM

Well I think TV series on High Definition is one of the great advantages that BD will have over HD DVD since it has more capacity. BD would use 60% less discs in the long run than HD DVD Box sets for the same quality.

Lets assume the MPEG-2/AVC "transparency" to the master rate that was mentioned in an earlier thread: 37.5 Mbs for MPEG-2 (therefore 19Mbs for AVC)

Star Trek: TOS at 1080p 1.33 would need 75% that rate.
79 Episodes x aprox 50 minutes = 4000 minutes x 60secs x 19Mbs x 0.75 = 3,420,000 Mb or 428 GB

Not counting audio for this example thats aprox. nine 50GB BDs vs 14 HD DVDs

How many discs there were on the DVD tri-color sets?

phranctoast · 09-22-2006, 07:19 PM

Quote:

yeah i'd be all over that especially lost the oclors are so rich and lush

thats the only reason i sometimes find myself watching csi:miami..damn i hate you david caruso

CobaltBlue · 09-22-2006, 07:49 PM

That's why I said "So to sum up how I interpret the current state of things... "
It was more to say... so is that the reality of it or is there information I've missed? Not to say, this is how it is...can't believe you were all so un-enlightened before I got here, etc.

Any Sony condescension I've got, I've earned in dollars wasted on crappy car cd players and the one year old external dvd burner I'm looking at right now that no longer recognizes cd's... while connected to a Sony laptop no less. That's like expecting no disdain for MS after living through Windows 95 and 2000.

So yeah, on 20 gb worth of storage difference for the foreseeable future(which is admittedly a pretty big deal) I was mis-informed. So all Sony and PS3 hype aside, is that the fundamental difference? If so, I still maintain that for Joe Sixpack, price and available titles will be more important. If he's standing in Bestbuy looking at the HD-A1 for $499/360 add-on for $140-200 vs bdp-1000/bdp-s1 for $999. Factor in that he can flip the hybrid-discs to watch the dvd side at his buddy Earl's house and it could make for a rough year for Blu-ray.
I look forward to seeing what everyones' thoughts are this time next year as that'll likely be when I invest in both my projector and a hi-def player and/or ps3. Here's to hoping Sony (and co.) reign in the prices so the format with more room for expansion wins out.

CobaltBlue

AV_Integrated · 09-22-2006, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CobaltBlue

...I still maintain that for Joe Sixpack, price and available titles will be more important. If he's standing in Bestbuy looking at the HD-A1 for $499/360 add-on for $140-200 vs bdp-1000/bdp-s1 for $999.

Yes, but several million PS3s could factor heavily into all the decisions that are made. J6P could be standing at home, trying to figure out the format war, and the sales guy could say "Do you have a PS3 at home?" and the guy may respond "Yes"... "Well, you already have a HD disc player at home, try renting a Blu-ray title and see how it looks!"

PS3 video quality is going to be a huge factor in upcoming months. If it is as good as Samsung, or even better, than there will be very serious gains in this battle from the Blu-ray camp... No matter how much FUD AVS tries to throw around. Of course - it's about 2 months and counting for us to find out - and I will hopefully be one of the first to make my opinion known.

I have very little doubt that by next fall, Blu-ray and HD-DVD pricing may be close to lined up evenly.

zombie · 09-22-2006, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CobaltBlue

So yeah, on 20 gb worth of storage difference for the foreseeable future(which is admittedly a pretty big deal) I was mis-informed. So all Sony and PS3 hype aside, is that the fundamental difference? If so, I still maintain that for Joe Sixpack, price and available titles will be more important. If he's standing in Bestbuy looking at the HD-A1 for $499/360 add-on for $140-200 vs bdp-1000/bdp-s1 for $999. Factor in that he can flip the hybrid-discs to watch the dvd side at his buddy Earl's house and it could make for a rough year for Blu-ray.
I look forward to seeing what everyones' thoughts are this time next year as that'll likely be when I invest in both my projector and a hi-def player and/or ps3. Here's to hoping Sony (and co.) reign in the prices so the format with more room for expansion wins out.

CobaltBlue

Joe Sixpack isn't going to pay $500 or $1000 for a high def player. He's waiting until these things are $100-200. He's not a factor at this point nor will he be throughout the coming year. By 2008 things will be far more clear and the prices will start to attract Joe. At that time there is no reason to believe that BD and HD DVD player prices won't be near identical... that is to say if HD DVD is still around at that point.

BTBuck1 · 09-22-2006, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CobaltBlue

I still maintain that for Joe Sixpack, price and available titles will be more important. If he's standing in Bestbuy looking at the HD-A1 for $499/360 add-on for $140-200 vs bdp-1000/bdp-s1 for $999.

Casually left out, or maybe not even considered (clouded by anti sony sentiment) the fact that the HD-A1 or A2 for that matter will be sitting next to the BD players from..Sony, the Pioneer, the Philips, The sharp, The Samsung & the LG players...all alone, holding up a white flag most likely...who wouldn't surrender to that onslaught? Who'd buy in when you have 6 or 7 choices vs. one?
Then you hold onto this HDDVD add on thing like thats the savior for HDDVD...dude, are you serious? first off, you'd already have to own a 360 so factor in $399 and now add in the additional $179 to buy a HDDVD, then you still have to buy a wifi adaptor for $99 and at the end of the day your still inferior to the competing ps3 but paying more for less? no HDMI...40gb's less of available storage, no card reader, blue tooth, Weak Japanese developer support...I think your heads to far up MS & Toshibas ahem and clouding your better judgment.
All you see is the Bad in Blu and the good in HDDVD. But facts speak for themselves.

Quote:

Factor in that he can flip the hybrid-discs to watch the dvd side at his buddy Earl's house and it could make for a rough year for Blu-ray.

gimme a break...even HDDVD supporters (including me) are pissed we have to pay $5 extra to have the DVD version. If i still wanted DVD's why would I bother with HDDVD? or Blu Disc??? I am trying to get away from Standard Def...not pay extra to include it!!! and now you think J6P wants to pay extra for it? meh...not likely.

Quote:

I look forward to seeing what everyones' thoughts are this time next year as that'll likely be when I invest in both my projector and a hi-def player and/or ps3. Here's to hoping Sony (and co.) reign in the prices so the format with more room for expansion wins out.

oh, yeah right ...."here's to hoping" Ni**a please, Sony & the BDA don't need your fake blessing. You go ahead and jump on board the sinking ship, just don't put all your animals on that ship (i'm not) it's going to sink sooner than later.
My advice, limit your HDDVD purchases primarily to Universal titles, since they are the only reason for HDDVD to exist anyways.

phloyd · 09-22-2006, 08:22 PM

Why are people so down on Minidisc... I love my Minidisc HiMD (1GB discs!)...!

I also love my PSP with UMD movies.

Call me crazy but people who travel a lot get a lot of use out of these things...

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09-22-2006, 05:02 PM	#22
Monkey Blu-ray Knight Member since:Sep 2006 Trading Score:31	this CobaltBlue is a clown. Why hasn't he been banned yet All he is doing is barfing up false information and Fud.

09-22-2006, 05:12 PM	#23
phranctoast Power Member Member since:Aug 2006 Location:Long Island, NY;psn:phranctoast Blu-ray collection:78	people get to have opinions. They also get to have them rebutted like jtk and brian did..big time.. lol. id ask if you guys have work at BB, but I kinda have a slow day too so I cant say shit.

09-22-2006, 05:16 PM	#25
Psiweaver Special Member Member since:Jun 2006 Location:Los Angeles,CA	The funny thing is that Sony devoloped VHS then sold it to JVC so technicly you could say they are responsible for VHS which would be a huge victory in their favor. I can't stand sony mainly because like bose they overcharge for a product based on their marketing. The one thing about sony and bose is that they have very good marketing departments. If you think Halo 3 is really going to be that amazing then feel free to go out and buy an xbox 360 because thats about the only game that you'll be playing on that system. An add on drive isn't going to sell in numbers anywhere near the PS3, yes not everyone wants one but just about every gamer i know wants one and add on the fact that the ps2 is the best selling console in history and I think the ps3 just might be a winner.

09-22-2006, 05:20 PM	#26
AV_Integrated Senior Member Member since:Jan 2005	Sony has a ton of innovations and products that they have brought to market that are phenomenal and truly cutting edge, as well as a long list of failure items. They also have a long list that sits somewhere in the middle that people insist upon putting in one category or another. Successes for Sony: Walkman - This was THE product for carrying your own music around in. Not a cheap FM radio thing, but a way to take your own tunes anywhere you wanted. CD - Which they developed with Philips. A joint venture doesn't leave the Sony name off this product's development and push. Playstation - The Sega/Nintendo juggernaut of home gaming seemed locked up for many years to come when PS1 came along and rocked the world for those companies. Sega who? Is what our kids will say, though Nintendo has toughed things out and rocked on with their Gameboy series. PSP - While no Gameboy, it is a long, long way from a flop of a product. Excellent color and reviews for gaming... who cares about the movie aspect? This thing is fun to play and almost everyone who owns one, loves it! SXRD - Sony received 'product of the year' honors for their 60" SXRD model from Home Theater Magazine (or was it S&V?). After years of incredible CRT displays, Sony comes out on top again with a significantly larger model that just looks awesome. When LCoS had a questionable future, Sony has really turned it into a viable format. Oh, and let's not forget their front projectors with the Qualia, Ruby, and now Pearl 1080p models. They are on 3rd generation front projection and now at $5,000 while the competition is just getting warmed up. While it is fair to say that Sony has had products that have not done well, it is not fair to pretend that they haven't had stellar successes with products that they have introduced either. They continue to make one of the only 400 disc DVD changers, they are sticking with LCD flat panels and avoiding DLP rear projection - with much success! Yet, in the end - Sony does not have a single Blu-ray player out on the market yet using BDA approved format guidelines. Their recorder from 2003 was nothing like what is coming out now. The first Blu-ray players are from Samsung and the worlds largest CE manufacturer: Panasonic. We may even get the Pioneer before the first Sony player shows up. This is critical because not one product that Sony has helped to develop that has failed has had so much support behind it that I am aware of. Not one or two companies making hardware and software - but dozens! The BDA is taking Sony's product and are running with it. HD-DVD, near as I can tell, is the DiVX of the HD formats. The Beta. Unlike Beta though, Blu-ray was announced and developed first. Toshiba turned its back on the format, and some naive people choose to blame Sony for their decision. This would be a single unified format if Toshiba hadn't been the hold out company.

09-22-2006, 05:21 PM	#27
zombie Blu-ray Guru Top contributor Member since:May 2004 Trading Score:865	I think we can all agree that Sony has made some bonehead decisions as a company but Blu-ray is far more than just Sony. Please like to forget that fact. Since Sony owns Columbia Pictures they've had a studio in their corner from the getgo, something HD DVD does not have the luxury of. That said, Fox, Disney, Panasonic, Pioneer, etc - those are huge names in the industry who wouldn't be exclusively supporting Blu-ray if they thought it would fail.

09-22-2006, 06:15 PM	#29
CobaltBlue Banned Member since:Sep 2006	"New line Cinema supports both formats." Cool, I was under the impression from the article at the start of this topic that New Line was solely HD. Noone seemed to argue that point. LOTR will be a great candidate to showcase Blu-ray. I also thought TV series would have been a great thing to lead off with marketing-wise. West Wing Season 6, on one disc, etc. "Look at who's in the BDA...IT"S NOT JUST SONY!" Didn't the mod just reply with "You can call BD a Sony product..." Didn't I say Sony(and company). "Many years from now." Now or years from now, price and selection are what matters. Do you remember a game system called Neo-Geo. Ahead of its time, huge price tag for the system and the games. Everyone passed in favor of Nintendo. That's all I'm saying. "They won't be" You're either in charge of Sony's marketing or your crystal ball is better than mine. That's why I said "If". "won't happen. As long as HD-DVD is just Toshiba, Microsoft..." "Just Microsoft", now that's hubris. And with assurances like "Won't happen" from JTK on the Blu-ray forum, I better run and plunk down my $1000 at best buy right now. Maybe I like a lot of films by Universal or whoever is HD exclusive... why would I drop $1000 knowing I very likely won't get 100% of the films released. I'd say, unless budget is no object, it's dumb not to wait a while longer. Both camps deserve criticism for being too greedy to do right by their customers. "How so" Again, perhaps in error I was going with the article cited at the beginning of the topic. It has been common knowledge and common sense though that they are going to have most of the same issues of the 360 launch coupled with using blu-ray rather than readily available dvd. "True. It will be at least 1-2 years... The Xbox360's present hardware will most certainly hit a brick wall long before the PS3's hardware." Like I said before it won't matter. Argue if you want, but the PS2 has been obsolete for years but 99% of xbox games by third parties were still straight ports. That raises another valid point, are movie studios going to bother to make different versions if forced to publish on 2 formats to reach all consumers? Not likely. "Ah yes. I've seen this spin on AVS countless times... BD50 titles" I'm confused... so the 25 gb blu-ray movies produced so far have been inferior in some way then? At 50 gb we see the real potential? Playing Devil's Advocate here... I agree that on epics like LOTR, more space is a good thing. But that is what, maybe .5% of movies produced? "Very short term advantage. See above. Your argument is pretty much already gone and done with." No, my argument will be done with when one format has 100% of releases like its competitor, DVD. Until then you're paying too much money for limited reward which may be limited by the other medium anyway if studios release one version for both (likely). "Higher standard my ass. Those clunky Toshiba HD-DVD players... " I was referring to "On the other hand, Dolby Digital Plus support is mandatory for standalone HD DVD players at a maximum of 3 Mbit/s, while only optional for BD players and capped at 1.7 Mbit/s." "I doubt it. I think you're here as an HD-DVD fan " Right. Because I hate Sony. As I type on my Vaio x505 laptop(beautiful but overpriced). As a gamer, if they've got good games I'll have a PS3 eventually, once the hype and prices die down. In the meantime I've got a 360 that works great with a Media Center PC. So HD-DVD as a 360 add-on will likely make it into my house before Blu-Ray. But if it dies as a format in a couple of years, I won't be out $1000 either. "I think you need to look at the specs on HD DVD ..." The wikipedia entry didn't go into detail that the triple layer wasn't current spec. Now I know. A 20 gb difference will hopefully help establish blu-ray as the choice to go with for 100% of the studios. Once adopted universally, I'm there dude. If not, I'd go with VHS over laserdisc every time (and die a little inside) "The myth that 30 GB ... 4+ hour epic " Here's the thing, how many 4+ hour epics do you own? Name your top 100 4+ hour epics... ok make it 50. Still can't? I'm not saying I would rather have to put a second disc in, but to get a universal hi-def medium, if that's the only hitch, I can make that concession on less than .5% of my movies. Hopefully I won't have to. The upside is we're already used to having to do that, and we need an intermission to pee anyway. "Betamax, a technilogically superior" "I don't knock Sony for trying new things" Didn't I preface the comment with "I'm not crticizing technical capabilities, merely implementation..." Sony has a crappy track record on developing its innovations, period. Noone typically argues that any more than they'd argue that Xerox has historically had the same problem. Noone thanks them for windows either, because of that exact problem. But do you really want to say beta was anything but egg on the company's face. Come on. "They use it in broadcast..." yeah that's comparable to having a unit in every home, rv, and camcorder. I'm complimentary about the company's successes and honest about the shortcomings. Coming up with SACD for example, yay! Lackluster support of SACD due to fears of its lack of encryption was as you say, weak. "add on's are notoriously failures" Very true, but if they end up selling it on the cheap, the public will have a more budget friendly path to Hi-def in the already established 360. I don't even know that MS is gearing to develop games for the drive as it would limit who could play. And as already stated on this forum elsewhere, there's no saying they couldn't eventually have a blu-ray drive as well. It will already be able to link to one on your media center pc, so why not? I'm not on here to be a cheerleader for Sony. I'm here to discuss and learn about Blu-ray AND its alternatives to inform myself as a consumer. Now that I'm enlightened to current spec limitations for HD-dvd, I agree blu-ray WOULD be a better solution when factoring in really long movies or preferably whole seasons of West Wing on 1 disc. If it doesn't garner 100% of the market, it's not going to matter. Notice I managed to do so without equating what you have to say with BS or being rude. If you make a valid point about something I was ignorant of, I'll go with your educated opinion. That's why I'm here. Should I be apologizing that I did something other than wave pom-poms for Sony(and company)? You guys seem to do enough of that for the both of us.

09-22-2006, 07:11 PM	#33
Psiweaver Special Member Member since:Jun 2006 Location:Los Angeles,CA	yeah i'd be all over that especially lost the oclors are so rich and lush.

09-22-2006, 07:13 PM	#34
Deciazulado Site Manager Top contributor Member since:Aug 2006 Location:USiberia Home Theater Gallery:6 4K collection:1160 Blu-ray collection:7047 DVD collection:4044	Well I think TV series on High Definition is one of the great advantages that BD will have over HD DVD since it has more capacity. BD would use 60% less discs in the long run than HD DVD Box sets for the same quality. Lets assume the MPEG-2/AVC "transparency" to the master rate that was mentioned in an earlier thread: 37.5 Mbs for MPEG-2 (therefore 19Mbs for AVC) Star Trek: TOS at 1080p 1.33 would need 75% that rate. 79 Episodes x aprox 50 minutes = 4000 minutes x 60secs x 19Mbs x 0.75 = 3,420,000 Mb or 428 GB Not counting audio for this example thats aprox. nine 50GB BDs vs 14 HD DVDs How many discs there were on the DVD tri-color sets?

09-22-2006, 07:49 PM	#36
CobaltBlue Banned Member since:Sep 2006	That's why I said "So to sum up how I interpret the current state of things... " It was more to say... so is that the reality of it or is there information I've missed? Not to say, this is how it is...can't believe you were all so un-enlightened before I got here, etc. Any Sony condescension I've got, I've earned in dollars wasted on crappy car cd players and the one year old external dvd burner I'm looking at right now that no longer recognizes cd's... while connected to a Sony laptop no less. That's like expecting no disdain for MS after living through Windows 95 and 2000. So yeah, on 20 gb worth of storage difference for the foreseeable future(which is admittedly a pretty big deal) I was mis-informed. So all Sony and PS3 hype aside, is that the fundamental difference? If so, I still maintain that for Joe Sixpack, price and available titles will be more important. If he's standing in Bestbuy looking at the HD-A1 for $499/360 add-on for $140-200 vs bdp-1000/bdp-s1 for $999. Factor in that he can flip the hybrid-discs to watch the dvd side at his buddy Earl's house and it could make for a rough year for Blu-ray. I look forward to seeing what everyones' thoughts are this time next year as that'll likely be when I invest in both my projector and a hi-def player and/or ps3. Here's to hoping Sony (and co.) reign in the prices so the format with more room for expansion wins out. CobaltBlue

09-22-2006, 08:22 PM	#40
phloyd Blu-ray Guru Member since:Dec 2003 Location:California Trading Score:5	Why are people so down on Minidisc... I love my Minidisc HiMD (1GB discs!)...! I also love my PSP with UMD movies. Call me crazy but people who travel a lot get a lot of use out of these things...

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